:)I am a descendant of John Rogers ( born and bapt in 1803 , son of Henry Rogers and Mary Pascoe, and grandson of William Rogers and Mary Toyle, who was married to Mary Faull on 13 March,1824 and emigrated to New Plymouth New Zealand in 1842. Both my parents are descended from their children. Interested in extending knowledge on where John Rogers and family may have been working and connecting with other family lines. Just beginning to use internet for research . It was with interest I found the postings on the Rogers families thread started Aug 2010
Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 30, 2011 6:33:53 GMT -5
Hello Carol - welcome to the site.
It looks like the family moved from Crowan to Sithney at least for a while and were at Prospidnick Downs when a number of the children were baptised.
Could you please provide a list of the children of John and Mary so that I can sort through a couple of other families? It looks like there was at least one other family with John and Mary as parents baptising children around the same time.
Once I have the children it should help me work out some of the other links for you.
I am also a descendant of John Rogers and Mary nee Faull, and Carol has contacted me. Children of John and Mary were: John (1824), William (1828), Henry (1830), Mary (1833), Anna Maria (1834), Samuel (1836), Solomon (1839), Elizabeth Jane (1841). Other children were born in New Zealand: Jonathan (1843), Victorine (1844), Josiah (1847) and a stillborn child in 1850. Would like to connect with other Rogers researchers whose ancestors hailed from the Crowan area. Also interested in Faull, Pascoe and Toye researchers whose family hail from the same area.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 1, 2011 3:30:52 GMT -5
And welcome to you also.
Thankyou for the list of the children of John and Mary which have now been updated in my database - except for those born in NZ.
I can find no record of them in the NZ Indexes so perhaps you could enlighten me a little further.
I am not actually a Rogers researcher but I do try to provide some assistance with all queries that we receive and with most I also try to keep a record in my database. Some things connect with me but more often research on these problems assists with other queries.
As others join in this discussion I will be taking note and checking each lead that is presented until I can hopefully find the answers for you.
At the moment I can tell you that the youngest son of Henry and Mary (Solomon) married Mary Sincock at Sithney 5th November 1839.
Solomon and Mary appear to have baptised all 11 children at Crowan.
The other siblings of your John are a little more difficult. I have potential marriages for brothers Henry, Richard and William but unfortunately there were others of those names born around the same time and area.
It will take some work to sort them out but perhaps other researchers have already done this and can help.
But at least until the 1840s/1850s the family seemed to stay mainly in the Crowan and Sithney area.
Thanks for the welcome. I am not sure why the other children of John and Mary are not showing up in the New Zealand Birth Index online although the unnamed female is in 1850 (I have read somewhere the child was female). The early births unfortunately do not show parents on the Historical BDM site. The other three Jonathan, Victorine and Josiah all were born in New Plymouth (where I live) and I have found baptisms for them in our branch library (New Plymouth Branch NZSG) and I thought I had found birth dates as well though they are not showing up on my software.
I quite agree that the names of John's siblings are common and it does make it difficult when trying to sort out which family they belong to. I had found information in the last few days that Solomon had married Mary Sincock - at least Solomon is an easier name to follow and I had their children.
I also followed with interest your reply to Jean regarding her Rogers query. It all made a lot of sense.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 2, 2011 0:39:42 GMT -5
Hello Raewyn - I don't think finding the correct links for the other Rogers children will be impossible although it will certainly have its problems. The difficult part will be if the family continues on back through Crowan as the early registers are in an abysmal state.
Continue your discussions with Carol here and I will help as much as I can. But hopefully others will pick up on the thread and get involved also.
Kia Ora/Greetings from NZ and thanks for the offer of assistance CT I have the similar dates as Raewyn but have baptism of son John Rogers first son as 25th February,1825 at Crowan William Rogers ( my line on my maternal side) 20 Jan 1828 son of John and Mary Rogers, Longstone Downs , miner, Sithney Henry Rogers , son of John and Mary, Higher Prospernick, miner,Bapt 28 Feb 1830, Sithney Mary Rogers, dau of John and Mary Rogers, Miner, Bapt 21 Jan 1833, Crowan Ann Maria Rogers, dau of John and Mary, Miner Bapt 7 June,1834,Crowan Samuel Rogers, son of John and Mary Rogers, miner 05 June,1836 Solomon Rogers son of John and Mary Rogers Prospernick Downs, miner bapt 14 July,1839 Elizabeth Jane Rogers, dau of Joh and Mary Rogers miner, Bapt 15 July, 1841, Crowan( my line on my paternal line) ( ref: Photocopy of list of Crowan and Sithney baptisms provided by Cornwall County Library)- Re: NZ born update Jonathan Rogers born 1843bapt St Mary's Church New Plymouth NZ13 July,1845 Victorine Rogers born 1844 bapt 13 July,1845 St Mary's Church, New Plymouth, NZ Ref photocopy of register page from Puke Ariki Museum and appararently another child - this would be Josiah but have not confirmed his baptism at St Marys at this time but is recorded in Puke Ariki Museum information base ( cited in Mary Reid, Taranaki Museum article on Victorine Rogers and the Murder of MARY ROGERS, nee FAULL, her mother- ( JOHN ROGERS and MARY FAULL are first settlers t New Plymouth NZ) having arrived on the " Essex" in 1843. Josiah Rogers,bapt. 15 June, 1847 Ref: Weslyan/ Methodist Christenting register, Puke Ariki Museum
There is a still born female ROGERS in 1850/119 www.BDM ref but no parents are indicated.
In the 1841 Census for Nancygollen, John and Mary nee FAULL Rogers were living at Nancygollen. As this is almost half way between the Parishes of Sithney and Crowan I wonder if Johhn and Mary Rogers have been living there all along. There are many FAULL in this village and it could be that they settled with her family. Had a session on 1841 census and I have found a HENRY ROGERS on Sithney Census, Chyrueen with wife and four children and a WILLIAM ROGERS on Sithney Census at Prospinnock with wife Elizabeth and five children.
The library also sent some background information on Henry ROGERS of SKEWIS FARM who was hanged for murder. Within the data was an extract from a publication " Cornish Heritage- Keith Skues, published 1983 Chapter 7 Seige of SKEWIS. In the article he provides a family line for the said HENRY ROGERS of Skewis Farm.
Background knowledge from the article : Mathew ROGERS,of Cambourne, second son of HENRY ROGERS of Cambourne identifies that he married Mary ROWE and had eight children although only four children made adult life. Their issue WILLIAM ROGERS married Ann MILLETT - no issue HENRY ROGERS married Catherine WEBSTER and he identified four children in the article,all baptised at FALMOUTH, LUCE bapt 1724 Matthew Bap 1726 William Bap 1828 Mary bapt 1733 In the article he mentions an article by Davies Gilbert who in his account of the family had visited another son HENRY who was 84 years in 1812 who recalled the seige and mentioned that he had been born in Crowan and that while his father had been bred a pewterer had for many years occupied land at Crowan.
The original MATTHEW ROGERS had a sister REBECCA ROGERS who married JOHN DAVEY of Crowan. This John Davey was made one of the four Guardians of WILLIAM, HENRY, JANE and JOHN ROGERS when they were orphaned in abt 1709 when Mary ROWE died.
I have a pencil note that our WILLIAM ROGERS who married MARY TOYE was born abt 1733 ( no knowledge of where this came from- grrrr) However: Was our WILLIAM ROGERS who married Mary TOYE possibly the son of HENRY ROGERS who got into conflict over the SKEWIS FARM ( 1735) with the widow of his brother WILLIAM will and the ownership of SKEWIS FARM
Hope this makes sense to you all
I have been examing information sent to me by the Cornwall Library
It does sort of make sense to me, but I will sit and digest this information.
I am not sure where I got the 1824 from for John's birth but I do have his baptism as you have it. I will check when I am next at our branch library for the birthdates etc of Josiah or when I am at Puke Ariki Research Centre.
I do not know if there is a link but a Jacob Henry Rogers has turned up in New Zealand. Is this a son of Solomon (1820)and Mary? He married a Grace Roberts PRISK and the marriage was registered in the Mar qtr 1866 Helston Vol 5c Pg 333. According to the Cornwall OPC site they had a daughter Susan Jane bap 9 Jun 1870 Carnmenellis Parish. Their residence was Four Lanes and Jacob Henry's occ was a miner. I have also found this family on the 1871 Census (on FreeCen) and Jacob was a miner. In the 1861 Census (on FreeCen) Jacob is living at home age 15 and is a Tin Miner. Is this a coincidence?
Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 4, 2011 8:16:20 GMT -5
Well Girls - I think there will be a bit of work involved in trying to account for all the detail provided in Carol's note. There must be some sort of records somewhere for these people to have gained the information that Carol has transcribed but it appears it is largely not in existing Parish Registers.
I have found the baptisms of the first three children of Mathew Rogers at Falmouth but it appears daughter Mary was actually baptised at Crowan. No sign of a baptism for the Henry mentioned by Davies Gilbert but the Crowan records for that period are in a very poor state. Perhaps the Bawden Transcript will have something if we can get a hold of a copy.
Raewyn - Jacob Henry Rogers marriage to Grace Prisk can be found on the OPC site and it is indeed the son of Solomon.
I also found a copy of the page from Victorine Goddard's biography which mentions her mother's murder. Found it simply by Googling 'Mary Rogers Murder New Zealand'.
I have updated my database now to reflect most of the information about your family but as yet do not have details of marriages for the siblings of John or any further details of William as yet.
Thank you for confirming that Jacob Henry who married Grace Prisk was Solomon's son. I have begun a working scenario on him. After they came to New Zealand they had another 9 children. I found him on the 1871 census with wife Grace and daughter Susan J living at Four Lanes Gregwartha, Wendron and he was a Tin Miner. It seems he hand Grace (not sure about young Susan as yet) came to New Zealand sometime between the 1871 Census was taken and 1875 as their son Henry Edward was registered in 1875 in New Zealand. Daughter Lilly Rogers bn 1888 in Christchurch, New Zealand was married in Victoria, Australia in 1908 and Jacob was in Victoria for her wedding. Am going to be checking New Zealand records for Lilly's siblings to see if there is anything more here otherwise might be turning to Australian records.
I've had a quick look at the references for the article on Henry ROGERS of Skewes and the writer makes reference to notes on the Rogers family - Betty Farrell and documents and correspondence at County Museum, Truro - Hawkins collection and at Penzance library - Borlase collection.
With regard to births found do you mean Henry ROGERS of Falmouth mother Catherine Webster or children of the son Mathew ROGERS born Falmouth 1726?
- Found the m 2nd marriage of MARY ROGERS, widow, daughter of John Pascoe to James ROSEMERGY , widower, farmer of Trevarno on the 24 September, 1839 at Sithney.
Found a reference in census of 1841 to a Mary Rosemergy , ind, aged 60 address at Fore Street, Camborne with 20yr old Margery ROSEMERGY Ore dresser. Is this our Mary ROGERS?
Raewyn has found 1851 census Mary ROSEMERGY with son Solomon ROGERS and family at Releath, Mary was again a widow, aged 75yrs
Will keep pulling at leads Many thanks for your support CT
The births that CT is referring to (and please correct me if I am wrong CT) are children of Henry Rogers and Catherine Webster. The Henry that Davies Gilbert refered to was 84 in 1812 giving a birth year of around 1728 and Mary was born in 1733 and appears to be another child of Henry and Catherine. The children of Henry Rogers (Snr) who survived were William who married Ann Millett; Matthew who married Mary Rowe; Henry who married Catherine Webster and Rebecca who married John Davies. It took me a little while to get my head around it all.....at least this is the way I took it all. I have not found a baptism for Mary either in Crowan, but I am wondering if Henry was not 84 but a few years younger and born around 1730 or so. Anyway thats my thoughts at least on this family.
As far as Jacob Henry goes I have done a little searching and found that two daughters died in New Zealand - Susan Estella Roberts bn 1879 and died 1884 aged 4 yrs and Estella May bn 1884 and died 1884 aged 9 weeks. I have assumed that Susan Jane bn c 1870 has died prior to Jacob and Grace coming to New Zealand. Jacob and Grace have gone to Australia sometime after 1888. I can find deaths in Victoria, Australia for Jacob Henry, Grace Roberts, Jacob Francis, Mary Charlotte and Thomas Prisk, though do not know what years or where in Victoria these events happened. I have joined GENANZ list and will send a query to the list to see if I can find anything more. And will keep you posted if I do find any more.
Just as aside I have just found a website that has Sithney marriages and there are lots of Pascoe's on there.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 5, 2011 2:55:08 GMT -5
Regarding the Falmouth Baptisms - I found baptisms for three children of Henry Rogers at Falmouth.
Luce bp. 19th September 1724 Matthew bp. 3rd July 1726 William bp. 19th July 1728
FamilySearch has the following:-
Mary daughter of Hen Rogers bp. 1st January 1732
The Crowan register around this time is, as mentioned before, an abysmal condition although some entries can be read quite clearly. Most however are fragmented by torn or or otherwise damaged pages and it appears that an odd page might be completely missing.
I do not have access to the Bishops Transcripts for Crowan but perhaps there is more there.
No record of Henry can be found but I would certainly take his age of 84 as being a little 'flexible'.
Re the surviving children of Matthew Rogers - by my reading of Carol's notes there was no daughter Rebecca. The Rebecca who married John Davy was supposedly a sister to Matthew and her husband, John Davy, was one of four Guardians appointed to look after the surviving children of Matthew when they were orphaned after the death of Mary (Rowe) in 1709.
This brings up another interesting point. There is a burial at Camborne in 1709 for a Mary Rogers who may well be Mary Rowe. This at least fits the information supplied so far. However I have been unable to find any record of a burial for Matthew which should have occurred between about 1702 and 1709.
Even more interesting is this quote:-
Mathew ROGERS,of Cambourne, second son of HENRY ROGERS of Cambourne identifies that he married Mary ROWE and had eight children although only four children made adult life.
I have been able to find only FOUR recorded children of Matthew Rogers.
William bp. 8th November 1696 Camborne (m. Ann Millett at St Hilary) Henry bp. 18th July 1698 Camborne (m. Catherine Webster at Redruth) Jane bp. 10th November 1700 Camborne John bp. 7th April 1702 Camborne
The records for Camborne appear to be quite good although I only have transcripts of them. So any other children would have to have been mostly born after 1702. Unless, of course, Matthew had been previously married.
Jacob Rogers arrived in New Zealand in 1872. The details are on the FamilySearch site but it is (As Damned Usual) playing up at the moment so I have been unable to download the image.
Vessel - 'Pleiades' Departure - 13th September 1872 Arrival Port - Canterbury Arrived - 28th December 1872 Passenger - Solomon Rogers Age - 26 Occupation - Tin Miner
I will try again later and see if I can get the image which should tell me who was with him.
I have access to Victorian Indexes so can also look up the events that happened in that State for you.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 5, 2011 3:57:47 GMT -5
I can now add that Jacob Rogers came to New Zealand with only his wife Grace.
I have managed to download a copy of the page from the Passenger list but it required a reboot of my PC to clear the problem.
Seems to be an inherant problem with FamilySearch that it will not allow you to Log Out properly.
Anyway - if you log in to FamilySearch and then go to Australian and New Zealand you will find the last item for New Zealand is the Passenger lists for 1839-1873. Just enter Jacob Rogers and you will find him and be able to access the image.
And now for a look at the Victorian records for those other events.