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Post by ubiquitous on Mar 2, 2014 5:35:41 GMT -5
Does anyone have any information on the father of Henry Ralph born approx. 1682 who married Margaret Mitchel ,St Hilary 1707 and died 1741? St Hilary. Would he be a grandson of Peter who died 1656. |
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Post by white on Mar 2, 2014 7:22:40 GMT -5
Hi, I have a lot on the family, but have yet to find parents/baptism for Henry.
Happy to exchange info, Roy
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 2, 2014 15:06:55 GMT -5
This sounds like the old 'males marry at 25 and females marry at 21' syndrome! While Henry 'might' have been around 25 you need to consider the possibility that he might have been as young as 17 and might also have been as old as 60 or more!
And even if it is not recorded in Phillimore or even the Parish Register it is also a possibility that Henry might have been a widower.
But regardless of his age there is a difficulty with St Hilary as prior to 1699 only a few scattered records from 1677 onwards survive. Even BTs are few and far between so you are going to have to rely on Wills and other documents. That is, of course, assuming that Henry was baptised at St HIlary.
Don't be discouraged - it always looks difficult but if you have a little patience and look at options there is always a possibility of finding some origins for Henry.
When looking at Wills don't just look back but look sideways as well because Wills of siblings or cousins might also help you find the links you are looking for.
And keep looking at other nearby Parishes for baptisms or other clues that might help.
I am away for a few days but will try and do some searching when I return.
CT
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Post by chris on Mar 2, 2014 16:40:08 GMT -5
Hi, I have a lot on the family, but have yet to find parents/baptism for Henry. Happy to exchange info, Roy Hi, I have sorted Henry's offspring etc .We are desended through his son Richard born 1707.After looking at all the known Wills of other Ralph's that predate Henry in the area,have come to the conclusion that he is most likely a son of James that died 1733 son of James that died 1705 son of Peter that died 1656. Reason being that the only record of Ralph's in the St Hilary,St Erth,Crowan area are James of St Hilary doing an inventory for John Geach 1675. Peter Ralph alias Cheype was linked to Winnianton Manor at the Cheype tenament as was Richard at Triggs or Ralph's tenement.Linked to Eny's.The Ralph's seem to all link back to Gunwalloe ,Ruan Minor.Thomas was Reeve there as well as Francis was a Reeve.Francis had a lease at Roseworthy Manor.Penhale Woolas etc.He died 1690.St Hilary. All conjecture at this stage. The Geach's,Kings,Enys,Mitchel's all link to the Ralph's. Could be completely wrong.Would be great to connect some dots about Henry as he is elusive to say the least.
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Post by chris on Mar 4, 2014 4:35:59 GMT -5
Hi Roy,
Any ideas or thoughts on Henry's father or best guess would be appreciated.
Regards Chris
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Post by white on Mar 4, 2014 8:47:33 GMT -5
Does anyone have any information on the father of Henry Ralph born approx. 1682 who married Margaret Mitchel ,St Hilary 1707 and died 1741? St Hilary. Would he be a grandson of Peter who died 1656. Chris, I have looked at your possibles and agree they are viable. But more proof needed. There were quite a few other Ralphs/Ralfes in the area, including a John, who was Vicar of St.erth. Sorry not to have any other opinions. Roy |
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Post by chris on Mar 5, 2014 4:51:18 GMT -5
Thanks Roy, Francis and James are the only Ralph's in St Hilary protestation returns 1641. Then James and Alexander are in St Hilary hearth tax 1664.Francis Ralphe is listed in Gwinear. The only name that travels down my line is James. There were lots of other Ralph's around but not in St Hilary,Marazion. Ralph Mitchel,Margarets brother married St Hilary same day or next day to Henry and Margaret.The Mitchel boys took over the lease at Roseworthy Manor after Francis retired back to St Hilary about 1685 and died 1690.He would be too old to be Henry's dad.however Henry may have met Margaret through Uncle Francis?Margarets mother Margaret was already in Marazion,hence the St Hilary wedding.Why not use John Vicar of St Erth. Looking at the burial records James 1630? to 1705 probably fathered James of St Erth 1656 approx.to 1733 who fathered Henry?  ?? Henry died young at 59.He is probably a brother of John who married Anne King.I personally don't think William's John is the right John as he was born 1664 and would be too old at 40 to marry Anne in 1704. John the Vicar of St Erth's dad was a Thomas whos father was probably a John. Have generally weeded who was who in the burials.James 1733 fits. The Ralph's seem to be mostly linked to John the Vicar of Wendron and Helston that died 1616. Chris. |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 6, 2014 4:45:30 GMT -5
Chris - I think the following comment might prove to be a perfect example of the way NOT TO THINK when dealing with any ancestry let alone when you are dealing with a Parish such as St Hilary for which, as I have explained, few records survive before 1700! Not every male married at 25 and not every female married at 21! Even in those early days of Parish Registers it was not unusual to find people who were later proven to have been as young as 17 or as old as ? at their first marriage. And many of those males marrying in their 30+ years managed to have more than an adequate supply of youngsters to provide for!  Keep in mind the limitations of registers and other records when you make decisions on who was or was not a part of your family history. I have one member of the family for whom no baptism seems to exist yet although marrying and having family around St Buryan, St Levan, Sennen and Sancreed can be no other than a sibling of my ancestor at Towednack! And this person was born around 1799-1801!!! Census and other later records offer enough clues to help identify this person. CT |
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Post by chris on Mar 6, 2014 5:11:10 GMT -5
CT, Point taken. Thanks.
Chris.
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Post by chris on Mar 12, 2014 3:39:29 GMT -5
CT,
Hi.
Any progress on your searching for Henry Ralph or Ralfe's father.Roy was very helpful on post Henry.Correlated exactly with my own charts.Your expertise would be most welcome.
Chris,
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 13, 2014 15:50:42 GMT -5
I have just found Peter Ralph's Will in the PCC records on Ancestry so I can now return to the early question about the possibility of Henry being a grandson of Peter Ralph.
After reading (albeit briefly) Peter Ralph's Will and then checking the children of Henry Ralph I would say the answer is likely to be in the negative.
The children of Peter Ralph (and wife Agnes)as recorded in his Will are - Francis, James, William, Joseph, Jane, Alexander and Peter (execs.)
The children of Henry Ralph (per OPC) are - Richard, Eleanor, Jane, Margaret and Faith.
Perhaps you should be looking at the possibility that Henry was the son of a Richard Ralph. There was a Richard Ralph at Ruan Minor who might be worth investigating. Richard's wife was Elizabeth and there are two children for them in the OPC records - James (1683) and Elenor (1692) both at Ruan Minor.
CT
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Post by chris on Mar 13, 2014 23:30:30 GMT -5
Hi CT,
There is also a Richard and Elizabeth from Grade who had Robert 1681 and Jane 1685.Jane would most likely be the Jane that married Henry Arundell.I thought the above Richard and Elizabeth Grade and Ruan Minor may have been the same couple.But It looks like they are possibly separate.The Grade Richard would be the clerk at Wendron who died 1746/7 whos creditor was Henry Arundel.As you say the Jane and Richard names tie in but how does the Elinor/Eleanor tie in? Are the Ruan Minor Richard and Elizabeths possibly Henry's parents?.Confused.
I thought possibly Richard Mitchell may have been the father of Margaret Mitchell ,Henry's wife.Your thoughts are much appreciated as it helps to get a clearer picture.
Thanks Chris.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 14, 2014 0:14:00 GMT -5
Chris,
The name Elenor is suggestive because that was the name of one of the daughters of Richard and Elizabeth. To have Henry also use that name for a daughter in the next generation suggests the possibility of a familial link.
The dates and location suggest to me that Richard and Elizabeth Ralph at Grade and Richard and Elizabeth Ralph at Ruan Minor would be the same family. Grade and Ruan Minor are both very small Parish down on the Lizard Peninsula and they are infact neighbouring Parishes between Landewednack and St Keverne.
Afraid I don't have much time to look more at this right now as I am being redeployed for another four days to the fire at the Hazelwood Coal Mine in Victoria.
If you keep plugging away and update this thread as you go I will be able to take another look sometime after Monday night.
CT
PS - I can confirm that the children at Grade and those at Ruan Minor are all the same family. The Ruan Minor register adds 'of Grade' for the baptisms of James in 1682 and Eleonora in 1693.
The difficulty with Grade is that no registers appear to survive prior to 1708 so anything found before that date is probably from Bishops Transcripts which I don't have. And I would suggest that might be where the marriage of Richard and Elizabeth took place.
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Post by chris on Mar 14, 2014 0:28:04 GMT -5
CT,
George Ralph and Anne of Ruan Minor OPC seem to be the most likely candidates for a Richard son.This George born about 1638 would possibly be the son of Hugh Ralph of St Keverne.
George and Anne had Frances 6/1/1664,John 12/7/1668,Emilen 22/9/1673.Also a George and Anne had an Elias 17/4/1677 Landewednack. No sign of a Richard but lots of gaps?
Also Michael Ralph married Elinor Nacarrow 1670 in Wendron,possibly an Aunt of Henry?
It is also of interest that Jane Ralph of Marazion daughter of Henry married Richard Ralph her cousin? 23/2/1741 Manaccan?
The only other possibility is the Edward that married Willmot Ton 1680?The Henry name in St Erth seems to come down the line from there?
Your thoughts would be much appreciated as you say the Peter connection seems odd as the names don't seem to get passed down.
A wild card could be Jane Ralph that married Richard Penhall 1679 could be Henry's parents and Richard Penhall had kids from a previous marriage in St Erth.Henry taking his mothers name?
Your thoughts?CT
Regards Chris
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 14, 2014 0:43:03 GMT -5
Chris - I have just updated my previous post with a note that the children at Grade and at Ruan Minor are all of the same family with 'of Grade' recorded for each baptism at Ruan Minor.
I also noted in that message that registers for Grade prior to 1708 apear to be all lost so it is only Bishops Transcripts (which I don't have) which might offer further information. I would suggest also that it is at Grade where Richard and Elizabeth might have married.
When looking at all your options you will now need to ensure you allow for missing registers particularly for Grade but also for other Parishes around the Lizard Peninsula.
I have to go now and get my bags packed for the flight to Morwell tonight so will see what you have come up with when I get back next week.
CT
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