Not sure why I could not find Charles DALE in the the 1841 & 1851 censuses last night, as FreeCensus has him indexed as DALE both times! According to FreeCensus the family he is with in 1851 is NOAL not VEAL
1841 Census Address: Halse Town NEWTON Saml. M 35 Tin Miner Cornwall NEWTON Ann F 35 Cornwall NEWTON Ann F 15 Cornwall NEWTON Saml. M 12 Tin Miner Cornwall NEWTON Margt. F 9 Cornwall NEWTON Priscilla F 6 Cornwall NEWTON John M 1 Cornwall DALE Chas. M 3 Cornwall
1851 Census Address: Hellesvore NOAL Jacob Head U M 46 Farmer Of 12 Acres Empl 2 Labr Cornwall - St Ives NOAL Richard Lodger U M 52 Lodger Cornwall - St Ives TRADREA Maria Servnt U F 44 Farmer's Servant Cornwall - St Ives DALE Charles Servnt - M 12 Farmer's Boy Cornwall - St Ives
I agree that Mary Eustice, daughter of Francis is a fair possibility for Charles' mother. The question is why Charles DALE is not apparently not with his mother from a very young age?
I did wonder whether the Maria Tredrea listed with the Noal family in 1851 might have been Charles' mother, but given she is unmarried she can't be the same person as Mary Eustice. Also I have found Maria on the 1841 Census as a servant to Margaret Broad at Madron, so the two points together would seem to eliminate her as a possibility.
Mary Eustice (b. circa 1818) does not seem to be on the 1841 census as an unmarried woman. There are only three Mary Eustices (incl. variants) of anything like the right age. One can be eliminated as she is a wife and also has a daughter born about the same time as Charles. The second is also a married woman with children aged 3 & 6m, and is in any event in the wrong location at St. Keverne. The third is a Maria, and she is a little too young, and also in the wrong place at Kenwyn Truro. NOTE: there are apparently no marriages of a Mary Eustice between 1837 & 1841.
One solution that may explain the puzzle could be in the following:
Deaths Jun 1839 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EUSTICE Mary Helston 9 76
Deaths Jun 1840 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EUSTIS Mary Helston 9 70
It is possible that one of these two deaths might be Mary Eustice (b. circa 1818) and that might explain why Charles Dale is apparently not with his mother.
Presumably the Newton family (perhaps related?) took Charles in to raise him, albeit perhaps not as a family member exactly, since he is working as a servant at a very young age.
Last Edit: Nov 27, 2008 15:07:56 GMT -5 by gandolf
Have been playing around a bit with the mysterious Catherine Rosewall...
18 Oct 1876 by Banns Richard Michell 30 bachelor Miner of Trowan (Father: Richard Michell, Miner) Kate Rosewall 23 spinster of Trowan, The Folly (Father: John Rosewall, Ship carpenter) Witnesses: Thomas Rosewall, Eliza Nankervis
Catherine (Kate) was the daughter of John - but was born about four years before he was married!!
Catherine's birth was NOT registered under the surname of Rosewall, indicating that she was illegitmate as we suspected.
There are two birth registrations that could well be her: Catherine Rosewall Brooking Dec 1/4 1852 Penzance RD Catherine Rosewall Stevens Mar 1/4 1853 Penzance RD
Catherine Rosewall Stevens appears to be the daughter of John & Catherine (Thomas) Stevens, and with her parents on later censuses.
Which leaves us with Catherine Rosewall Brooking.
At this stage I cannot find a record of her dying before 1861, nor can I find any record of her on the 1861 census. This includes checking all the Brooking variants I can think of (Brookin, Brookan, Brooken, Brookon, etc).
Now, there is also a Henry Brooking, son of Samuel, who marries at St. Ives in 1852. He is of Trowan, which is practically next door to where the Rosewall family was living at Anjou Green and later Folly.
I suspect that Henry may have had a sister, most likely named Elizabeth, who may have been Catherine's mother.
There are several Elizabeth Brookings (and one Mary) who die between 1852 & 1861 any of whom might have been the mother if I am right.
If anyone has access to the St. Ives baptismal records for the early 1850's it would be interesting to see whether Catherine's baptism is recorded.
Apparently not my week! yet another theory shot down in flames.
Must be the "other" Hollow family to my lot, as I don't have Cecelia in my database.
With the extra info, I was finally able to find Catherine on the 1861 census. Yet another variant of Brooking.
Address: Trowan BROOKAM Henry Head M M 37 Tin Miner Cornwall - Gulval BROOKAM Cecilia Wife M F 35 - Cornwall - St Ives BROOKAM Catherine K Dau - F 8 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives BROOKAM William Son - M 7 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives BROOKAM Cecilia Dau - F 4 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives BROOKAM Sarah Dau - F 1 - Cornwall - St Ives
William HOLLOW 1798 - 1877 BIRTH: 1798, St Ives, CON  DEATH: 1877, Penzance, CON  BAPTISM: 30 MAR 1798, St Ives, CON  Father: William HOLLA Mother: Ann CURNOW
Family 1 : Cecilia NOALL MARRIAGE: 19 OCT 1824, St Ives, CON  +Mary Ann HOLLOW +Cecilia HOLLOW +William HOLLOW +Nanny Noall HOLLOW Family 2 : Elizabeth (Betsy) HOLLOW MARRIAGE: 15 APR 1838, St Ives, CON 
I hadn't got to the point of checking every Catherine born in the right time frame, as the two with Rosewall middle names looked more "inviting" and so chased off after them first.
Catherine Jane Dunn born 1854 is certainly a likely candidate. The logical extension of this would be that Catherine's mother is quite possibly Georgina Dunn (or perhaps a close relative)
Like you the only Catherine Dunn I can find in the 1861 census was born in Gwennap, which would fit the only other Catherine Dunn born around that time (Catherine Dunn born Redruth 1854).
However, this gets even more curious every time I look closer at it.
The marriage details at St. Ives give the following: 15 Nov 1857 by Banns John Rosewall of full age bachelor Shipwright of St. Ives (Father: George Rosewall, Farmer) Georgiana Dunn of full age spinster of St. Ives (Father: George Patrick Dunn, Officer in the County) Witnesses: Mary [?], Thomas Williams, George Rosewall
First question - what is an Officer in the County (George Dunn's occupation)
Strangely I cannot find so far find a family that fits George Patrick Dunn in Cornwall on the 1841, 1851 or 1861 censuses on FreeBDM
I did find Georgia Dunn on the 1841 census, but she is not with her parents
Address: Bailey Lane, St. Ives WILLIAMS Ann F 40 Seaman's Wife Cornwall DOWNING Grace F 20 Cornwall DUNN Georgiana F 7 Cornwall
Georgina Dunn was apparently also NOT baptised in St. Ives, even though she consistently listed it as her place of birth.
The only two Georges in Cornwall old enough to be her father in 1841 both have their own families with them, including each with a child the same age as Georgina Dunn - so neither can be her father (unless she is a twin?)
Georgina is presumably back with her family by 1851. The only problem is where that is - neither Georgina or her father appear to be in Cornwall. And unfortunately the FreeBDM coverage of the rest of Britain is patchy. There is no Georgina (or for that matter George) Dunn that is anything close to the right age for Georgina Dunn in the 1851 census for Cornwall.
So the question then becomes not only where was Georgina, but if she is out of Cornwall in 1851, is she back in time to be a mother to Catherine.
Or if Georgina is not the mother, then where is the rest of Georgina's family - one of whom might be the mother of Catherine.
Having totally confused myself and probably everyone else, I think this is one that might have to put aside in the too hard basket for the moment
Think I have just found Georgina Dunn on the 1851 census.
Piece: HO107/1917 Place: Uny Lelant -Cornwall Enumeration District: 2g Civil Parish: St. Ives Ecclesiastical Parish: - Folio: 464 Page: 9 Schedule: 47 Address: Baileys Lane, St. Ives WILLIAMS Anna M. Wife M F 49 Mariner's Wife Cornwall - St Ives UNREADABLE Georginina Boardr U F 19 School Mistress Cornwall - St Ives
It would appear that she was still living with the same woman she was with in 1841. Presumably some sort of relative??
The Grace Downing in the 1841 census appears to have been the Grace Downing born 11 oct 1818 & baptised (Wesleyan) 25 Oct 1818 - parents Henry Downing & Ann Bennett. Grace seems to be the only child of Henry & Ann.
I suspect that Henry may have died prior to 1841 and Ann remarried to a Williams. This could make Grace Downing Ann William's daughter, although it is equally possible that I am wrong and Grace was simply boarding with Ann Williams.
There is an Ann Downing (age 32, which is a bit young I know) who marries Jasper Williams at Madron in 1838. Unlikely, but it might just be relevant.
Based purely on dates, it is just possible that Ann Williams of the 1841 & 1851 censuses is Georgina's mother. Although we would still need an explanation of where Georgina got the Dunn surname.
However, the fact that Georgina is listed as a boarder in 1851 would suggest that if there is a relationship between Ann Williams and Georgina, it is more likely to be that of an aunt to Georgina.
I'm aware of at least one Pickersgill family in western Cornwall, specifically at St. Ives. What I've been able to piece together looks like this:
______ Pickersgill m. ______ ______
William Pickersgill m. Ann ______
Ann Pickersgill (bap.1779 St.Ives) m.1802 St.Ives, John Barnes (bap.1775 St.Ives, s/o John & Jane)
George Pickersgill (bap.1780 St.Ives, d.bef.1808) m.1798 St.Ives, Jane Bennetts (1778-1864)
Nancy Bennatts Pickersgill (bap.1799 St.Ives) m.1817 St.Ives, Henry Downing (seaman)
Grace Bennatts Downing (b.ca.1820, d.1892) m.1842 St.Ives, Richard Quick (1809-1878)
George Patrick Rosmore D. Downing (bap.1829 St.Ives)
Samuel Pickersgill (bap.1802 St.Ives)
Sarah Pickersgill (bap.1804 St.Ives) m.1826 St.Ives, John Hollow (b.1803, d.bef.1871)
Samuel Pickersgill m.1778 St.Ives, Ann Husband
Sarah Pickersgill (bap.1781 St.Ives)
Samuel Pickersgill (bap.1784 St.Ives)
I suspect but am not certain that William and Samuel Pickersgill were brothers.
Don't know if this helps or not, but I hope it might.
Although I haven't checked it all, the info re Nancy Bennetts Pickersgill does check out. In any event I am aware from other members on this site that Bill Curnow's research is generally quite reliable.
Given the above information from Bill Curnow, there is nowhere in the Pickersgill family that the Dunn name could come from other than perhaps Nancy Bennett Pickersgill's grandmother (whose surname is unknown at this time).
George Patrick Rosmore D DOWNING - his fourth initial suggests that his fourth name "could" have been Dunn.
His middle names of Patrick and Rosmore are not particurlary Cornish, and to my mind suggest either Irish or Scottish heritage. Indeed Dunn is also not a particulary Cornish name, and again also suggests the possibility of out of county origins - perhaps Irish or Scottish again?
Strangely, at this stage I cannot find any evidence of either the Pickersgill family or George Patrick Rosmore D Downing in the census records for Cornwall.
Add all the above about the Dunn name and the fact that Henry Downing was a seaman, I wonder whether perhaps he may have been of Irish or Scottish origins. His being a seaman could explain his "disappearance" - either lost at sea or perhaps returned to his country of origin?
Last Edit: Nov 29, 2008 19:10:07 GMT -5 by gandolf