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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 15, 2012 8:37:33 GMT -5
Melanie - we have discussed this possibility before but although Robert and Loveday named a son James (their last child) there was no daughter Jane and also his age would be out by about five years. Taking the usual discrepancies into account I think that at this point five years is a little too much. I think we are looking at the possibility that Robert's father may have been a George Bennatts but unfortunately I can find nothing to support that other than George was the second male name used by Robert and Loveday. It should also be noted that after George he named a son John and then another Robert before he considered using the name James. I think that quite unusual if James was the name of his father. CT
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Post by melanie on Jul 16, 2012 23:01:52 GMT -5
Then, if they named their children first for themselves, then Robert's parents and after that Loveday's, Robert's parents would have been George and Elizabeth and Loveday's John and Jennifer.
Still looking.
Thank you for your patience.
Melanie
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Post by melanie on Jul 16, 2012 23:30:03 GMT -5
However, I think Loveday's parents were John jnr Chilew/Chelew and Elizabeth Rosewarne/Roswarden m 1849 Ludgvan.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 17, 2012 3:48:41 GMT -5
Don't forget the possibility that Robert's mother AND Loveday's mother might have been named Elizabeth! And it did not always necessarily follow that children were named in a strict order either. But if James was the name of Robert's father then I would surely have expected his name to be used a little sooner.
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Post by melanie on Jul 17, 2012 22:27:05 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, but then we don't know if Robert had many siblings who may have all had a James, or if his family did follow tradition all that strictly. My own George son of Robert had a first son Robert, but then none of his other children were named for any of the other grandparents. I just checked and Robert's other children ; James, John, Jennifer Amelia, Robert, Jennifer and Elizabeth all aovided Loveday as a name and only 3 used Robert and that not always first.
Not helpful, my lot.
Melanie
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Post by chyrose on Oct 18, 2012 12:59:15 GMT -5
Hi everybody. I’m a newby to this board. I came across this thread whilst researching my ancestor JOHN BENNET(S)/KERROE. Benet / Benets / Bennett / Bennetts / Bennatt /Bennatts not to mention Kerrowe / Kerrow / Carrow / Corrow / Kerroe, etc, etc - arrrrrrgh! I’ve made so many hand-written lists and Excel spreadsheets that I’m even dreaming about Bennett timelines! However, I think I’ve read something above showing that somebody might be able to make the link in my puzzle….. My 8xgreat-grandfather was JOHN (JNO) LUKE (1695-?) From Redruth who married JANE BENNETS in St Erthe on 22 May 1716. JANE was the daughter of JOHN BENNET(S) alias KERROE (?- ) from ? and ELIZABETH MILLETT (~1650-1698)? From St Hilary, who married in St Hilary 4 Jul 1681. Children (baptised in St Erthe): KATHERINE 1683 ALICE 1684 PHILIP 1687 GRACE 1689 (m. JAMES NICHOLLS 24 Feb 1720/1) JOHN 1691 JOHN 1693-1693 (died as infant – son of John) JANE 1695 I’ve also found two children of THOMAS BENNATTS alias KERROE in St Hilary: THOMAS 1690 MARY 1691 I’ve managed to glean that JOHN is likely to be a descendant of BENIDICTI KERROW (Bennett Bennett) – probably from another thread on this board, regarding naming patterns – but I just cannot make the link to this John. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to ascertain a date of birth for ELIZABETH MILLET either so that doesn’t help, although (as an aside) I’ve managed to trace ELIZABETH’s maternal line back to 1235!! (based on other people’s research). Her parents were CHRISTOPHER MILLETT (related to the mayors of Marazion), and HONOUR ANGWIN. Anyway, back to the Bennetts – I saw mention above that this JOHN might be the son of JAMES KERROWE – presumably he one of the sons (JACOBUS?) of BENEDICTI? I would be so grateful for any help on this.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 18, 2012 22:45:48 GMT -5
Welcome to the site Chyrose. A difficult task ahead methinks! Unfortunately the earliest surviving BMD records for St Hilary are the Bishops Transcripts beginning 1676 so any links prior to that date would need to be made via Wills or other such documents. How have you arrived at the conclusion that this was the man who married Jane Bennets? Yes, he was 'of Redruth' when he married but that does not necessary mean he was born or baptised at Redruth. There are a number of baptisms for John Luke at Redruth who would have been of age but then you need to consider the adjoining Parish of Illogan for which few records are readily available. I also find it strikingly coincidental that this John Luke just happens to have been born/baptised about the same time as Jane Bennets! If you have proof via Wills or other documents that the information is correct then that is excellent. But I always have alarm bells start ringing when things start to look so easy. Have you actually researched any of this yourself or made attempts to verify the 'research' you have found? If not then perhaps you should rephrase things a little and if that research comes from the ocean of online family trees then your best approach is to begin by treating every piece of information as suspect! So let's start with the family of John and Jane Luke and see if that might offer some clues that could help. A list of children might be a good start so that we can see what sort of links might be inferred by the names. CT
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Post by trencrom on Oct 19, 2012 3:46:20 GMT -5
I have to agree with the questions and concerns that Cornish Terrier has posed in response to the most interesting post by chyrose.
The early Bennatts ancestry was discussed a number of years ago by Zenobia, CT and myself. I have not seen anything since to challenge the pedigree that was arrived at thereby.
I have some specific concerns of my own to add.
Firstly, with from memory more than one John B in the area at that time, I would like to know how it has been ascertained that it was an Elizabeth Millett who was the mother of the children of John B who are listed here.
Secondly, if there is no date of birth (or rather christening) for Elizabeth then what record was used to ascertain the identity of her parents?
Thirdly, as for the said Elizabeth having ancestry traceable back to 1235, again if this is so perhaps chyrose would be good enough to advise the sources for this claim and how this ascent was arrived at. I am assuming that in view of the date cited that this involves visitation records, but while these can be quite reliable that is certainly not always the case, and any chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Has chyrose been able to corroborate the proposed pedigree through information derived from other, PRIMARY sources??
Finally, as many of us can testify, it is quite hard to get back with confidence from, say, 1700 to before 1600, owing to a lack of record coverage for much of the 17th century. Visitation records will not help much there as the last visitation in Cornwall was in 1620. Consequently it is often the case that a proposed pedigree will be most difficult to verify over this period of time. It may be that chyrose (or someone else) has been able to succeed in this and I would be delighted if she has. However we really need to see the evidence and reasoning for it first.
I also agree with CT regarding online family trees.
Trencrom
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 20, 2012 1:28:41 GMT -5
Chyrose - I have been reading the original notes and this thread and found something that might be of interest to you. Of course it will also mean that you may have to consider some serious pruning! In your opening post you offered the following:- Now consider this entry provided by Zenobia:-
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 20, 2012 2:59:57 GMT -5
Trencrom - I do not know how far you have progressed with this family but this is really the first time I have looked back at our discussions. So I will add a few more bits and pieces for consideration beginning with another quote from Zenobia:-
What is missing from this is a crucial marriage:-
Richard Morrish als Try married Margaret Hicks 9th February 1696 at St Ives (remember that I always use Old Style dates as they appear in the register)
The list of children supplied by Zenobia indicates that it is this last marriage to which they belong and therefore it is more likely this Margaret who married Philip Bennets in 1709.
Also there were quite a number of burials prior to 1696 at St Ives for wives of Richard Morrish.
In earlier discussions Zenobia posed the question of why there might have been no children from the marriage of Philip Bennets and Margaret. More often than not it is probably age-related and in this case I think helps identify Margaret Hicks.
Amongst the children of Richard Morrish als Try and wife Margaret is a son named Christopher. After a brief look at available records for Margaret Hicks the process of elimination indicates that she is probably the following:-
Margaret daughter of Christopher Hicks bp. 'the last of' February 1669
She would have been about 26 at her marriage to Richard Morrish and 39 when she married Philip Bennets. She would also have been about 17 years older than Philip!
At the present time that is what I consider the most likely scenario based on the available information.
CT
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Post by trencrom on Oct 24, 2012 3:06:23 GMT -5
CT, I have not looked at the Bennatts line for a while. One thing I am not certain of is how Zenobia determined that John's wife was Grace. Not saying this is wrong, just curious to know how. The christenings do not name the mother from memory.
Thanks for the information on the "other" Richard Morrish marriage. How do we ascertain which children belong to which Richard? I take your point about Christopher.
I too am inclined to think that Margaret was older than Philip. However at 39 one would still expect that there may be a child or two thereafter following a remarriage. Are the St Ives registers complete for the years immediately following 1709? Philip would have been stepfather to any children from Margaret's prior marriage. Are there any Morrish wills showing a Bennetts connection, viz. the children of Margaret mentioning Bennattses as relatives?
Trencrom
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2012 8:30:08 GMT -5
Hi Trencrom - let's see if I can provide some answers.
From the St Erth Parish Register:-
1727 Grace wife of John Bennet bury'd ....... January the 1st
The list of children I found for John Bennets (sic.) at St Erth is as follows:-
Katherine bp. 13th August 1682 Alice bp. 25th January 1684 Philip bp. 2nd July 1687 Grace bp. 26th December 1689 John bp. 4th March 1691 John bp. 3rd November 1693 - bu. 21st January 1693 Jane bp. 24th August 1695
Note that I did not find an Elizabeth but, as you can see, there was a daughter Grace. There also appears to be only one John Bennets around at that time.
I have not actually looked at the children from these Morrish marriages as yet. It is possible that only the Hicks marriage produced children but that would depend largely on those involved in the other marriage being 'past it'. I will have a look and see if I can work it out.
They appear to be complete but there are significant sections that are extremely difficult to read and some that are almost impossible. The copies I have were very poorly filmed but I understand the LDS may have now refilmed at least the earlier registers.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2012 8:59:15 GMT -5
Trencrom - for the period 1690-1696 there are not children baptised at St Ives to Richard Morrish. The list following that date is as follows:- Henry son of Richard Morrish baptised 2nd October 1697 John son of Richard Morrish als Try baptised 16th May 1698 Richard son of Richard Morrish baptised 20th June 1699 Richard son of Richard Try baptised 11th February 1700 Christopher son of Richd Morish baptised 30th September 1701 Mary daughter of Richard Morish baptised 24th February 1702 Richard son of Richard Try baptised 30th March 1703 Jane daughter of Rich Morrish baptised 25th June 1704 Christopher son of Richard Try als Morrish baptised 27th February 1704 Paul son of Richard Try baptised 23rd May 1707 Margaret daughter of Richard Try baptised 15th June 1709 I have checked to the end of 1714 and although there are some entries that are extremely difficult I am reasonably sure I have them all. Burials Henry Morrish, infant, buried 25th July 1699 Christopher Morrish, infant, buried 22nd February 1701 Richard son of Richard Try buried 22nd December 1702 Richard Morrish buried 25th October 1705 Paul son of Richard Trye buried 12th May 1707 Margaret Greby buried 7th January 1708 Jane daughter of Richard Morrish buried 17th April 1709 Again checked to end 1714. I have included the children of Richard Try because I have not yet been able to find a marriage for him and I suspect we might be dealing with a variation of the Morrish als Try/Try als Morrish scenario. As with the baptisms there are several burial entries that are quite difficult. I may have to check John Tanner's transcript to see if he may have picked up something I might have missed. I am not sure if the above has helped or hindered the situation but at least it does give us something to think about! CT *** more to follow ***
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Post by melanie on Dec 7, 2012 4:34:23 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
am I right in supposing that the Bennetts' Kerrowe might be referring to the place Kerrow near Zennor and that those Bennetts were the ones form Kerrow?
Melanie
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 7, 2012 8:03:06 GMT -5
Hi Melanie - a possibility but I would suggest probably not. Bennetts is not a name that I associate with Zennor and I know of only one of that name married at Zennor prior to 1837 - Elizabeth Bennetts married George Michell in 1695.
And if you Google for 'Kerrow Cornwall' you will find that there are more places of that name to be found including one in the St Neot area, Kerrow Farm near St Austell and Kerrow Farm near Sennen. There is also now a 'Kerrow Lodge' in Hayle which may have its origins in an ancient place in the area.
CT
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