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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 21, 2007 9:22:29 GMT -5
This is another of those confusing problems we have to deal with and it is not made any easier with the current coverage of St Ives and Lelant data readily available online. But - our task is to work with what resources are available to us and, where necessary, find alternate means to elicit the information we require to formulate results that can be as accurate as possible. Phillimore & Taylor records the marriage of Philip Bennatts and Christian Safeguard at Lelant on 28th August 1731. The way this entry is recorded suggests that Philip was then 'a local' as there is no appendage to his name. Christian Safeguard, however, is recorded as 'of St Ives'. Let's keep throwing this one around and see what turns up from the bottom of the bowl.  |
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 21, 2007 16:17:21 GMT -5
Let's see if trencrom can provide the death date for Margaret, w/o Philip and then we can go from there. John Bennatts als Kerrow would be a decendant of Bennatt Kerrow of Gulval and Lelant, whose two sons James the elder and James the younger both alternately called themselves James Bennatts, James Kerrow, James Cerrow, James Bennats als Kerrow etc. The elder James left a will in which he named a son John. For now I have tentatively placed John of St. Erth as his son. There was a Thomas Bennetts als. Kerrow at Gulval whom I have not yet been able to fit in. There is also a Richard Bennets als. Kerrow at Gulval who married Margery Merton in 1630 - I don't know for certain how he fits in either. Bennatt had a son called Richard, b. in 1603/4 who would fit this man, but Bennatt had a later son also called Ricahrd in 1615. However, since he named 2 sons James, I don't see any reason why he could not feasably name two sons Richard.  There is also a Richard Carrow having three children in Gulval in the 1620s. Additional confusion is caused by the fact that there are also Bennatts in Gulval who never call themselves Kerrow, and Kerrows in Gulval who never call themselves Bennatts.... |
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 21, 2007 16:30:08 GMT -5
Just found this:
Philip Bennetts m. Margaret Morrish 7 Jan 1709, St. Ives.
In one private IGI entry, she is called "Mrs. Margaret Morrish" so may have been a widow when Philip married her...
More:
A Richard Morrish was buried at St. Ives in 1705.
A Richard Morrish m. Margaret Gribby 28 Apr 1696 at St. Ives.
Children of this marriage:
Henry 2 Oct 1697
John 16 May 1698 ("John Morrish or Try")
Richard 20 Jun 1699
Christopher 30 Sep 1701
Mary 24 Feb 1703
Jane 25 Jun 1704
If this is indeed Philip's first wife, and if he is John Bennatts' son, then Margaret is probably going to be about 10 years older than her husband, not impossible with her being a widow. Wonder why there were no children of this marriage?
No wonder Philip was in such a hurry to remarry after her death - he still needed to successfully reproduce himself ha ha. ;D
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Post by trencrom on Jun 21, 2007 22:09:28 GMT -5
I went home and checked my handwritten extractions from the St Ives registers, wrote it on a piece of paper, and then forgot to bring it in with me today after all that BUT I am sure it said "Margaret wife of Philip Bennats" buried June 29 1731.
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Post by trencrom on Jun 21, 2007 22:28:30 GMT -5
Zenobia: I too was wondering if Margaret Morrish is the same Margaret as the woman in the burial entry.
A marriage date in 1709 would also sit well with a christening for Phillip in 1687. Can we confirm that there is nothing in the relevants burial registers to indicate that the Philip of 1687 died young?
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Post by trencrom on Jun 21, 2007 22:55:28 GMT -5
Cornishmaid,
You are definitely related,. and your thoughts concerning the significances of the middle names of Grace Rowe and her daughter are correct.
The proof comes from the will of Thomas Bennatts, dated 1824, that I have referred to. I was writing yesterday from the internet cafe, as I am now, so I did not wish to be too definite until I had gone home and checked my copy of the will first.
In it Thomas bequeaths a cellar underneath one of his leasehold properties in St Ives to his granddaughter Mary Bennatts. The cellar is described as being under a dwelling said to be then occupied by a William Rowe. A little later on the will bequeaths the said dwelling, bar the cellar of course, to the testator's granddaughter Grace Rowe, with the stipulation that it is to go after her decease to Mary Rowe, who is described therein as "another daughter of the said William Rowe". Further on the will leaves a bequest of one guinea to "my daughter Mary", the "wife of the said William Rowe".
You may wish to consider obtaining a copy of Thomas' will for yourself from the CRO as it is quite detailed.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 22, 2007 5:25:58 GMT -5
Trencrom, thank you so much! I felt sure of the connection, but had no proof oher than the children and grandchildren's names. I will indeed get a copy of that will. Sorry not to have contributed more to the board lately, but am going through an extremely busy spell. You're a star!  |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 22, 2007 8:18:12 GMT -5
The waters appear to become a little murky when dealing with the Morrish Family but I will offer what I can.
Firstly, however, let's get this one on record:-
St Ives Marriages - Phillimore & Taylor
Philip BENNETTS, of St. Earth, & Margaret MORRISH, w. 07 Jan 1709
(Margaret was certainly a widow when she married Philip but there is no indication Philip was in a similar position when he married Christian Safeguard.)
Here is a bit of a time-line on the Morrish family of St Ives (without going into baptisms just yet).
Margaret d/o Richard Morrish bur. 1653
Ephraim s/o Richard Morrish bur. 1655
Katherin d/o Richard Morrish bur. 1656
Richard Morrish, merchant, bur. 1656
John s/o Richard Morrish bur. 1659
Mary d/o Henry Morrish bur. 1663
Edward Robert & Margaret Morrish 03 Dec 1663
John Morrish, alias Trey, & Peternell Anthony 23 Feb 1663
Jo. Rosemenewas, junr., & Jane Morrish 26 Jan 1664
Ann Morrish alias Trey, widow, bur. 1666
John s/o John Morrish alias Try bur. 1666
Thomas s/o John Morrish alias Trey bur. 1668
Henry Hambly & Barbary Morish 01 Jul 1668
Mary Morrish, widow, bur. 1669
Christopher s/o Henry Morrish bur. 1671
Thomas Morish & Jane Cocke 29 Jun 1674
Mary wife of Richard Morrish bur. 1675
Richard Morrish senior bur. 1675
Emanuell Hambly & Jone Morrish 08 Dec 1675
Thomas Purefoy, gent., & Deborah Morrish 26 Nov 1680
Deborah wife of Richard Morrish bur. 1685
Elizabeth wife of Richard Morrish bur. 1686
Thomas s/o Thomas Trery alias Morrish bur. 1686
Frances Couch & Dorothy Morrish 04 Apr 1687
Richard Morrish, w., & Ann Harry 12 Apr 1692
Ann wife of Richard Morrish bur. 1693
Richard Morrish, w., & Margaret Gribby 28 Apr 1696
Richard Morrish, alias Fry, & Margaret Hicks 09 Feb 1696
John Morrish alias Try junior bur. 1697
Thomas Morrish alias Try bur. 1698
Henry Morrish infant bur. 1699
Christopher Morrish infant bur. 1701
Richard Morrish bur. 1705
Thomas Coggar & Jane Fry, alias Morrish 25 Apr 1705
Jane d/o Richard Morrish bur. 1709
Philip Bennetts, of St. Earth, & Margaret Morrish, w. 07 Jan 1709
Jane Morrish widow bur. 1712
Prudence d/o George Morrish bur. 1713
William Harry & Barbara Morrish 12 Jan 1713
James Mulfra & Margt. Morrish, alias Try 23 Apr 1717
Jane Morrish alias Try, widow, bur. 1721
Peter Reynolds (Runnals) & Mary Morrish 06 Nov 1725
Margaret wife of Philip Bennatts (saink?) bur. 1731
John Hayne & Margaret Morrish, alias Try 11 Sep 1732
Henry Morrish, bachelor, bur. 1735
I have only covered up until 1733 with the marriages and it would appear that many of the above are erroneous to us but they are worth keeping under consideration in the scheme of things.
Let's see what can be made of that lot before going any further.
As you will see - Richard Morrish was a not unpopular name which is where the waters are really clouded.
Those of you who have worked more on the Bennatts family may be able to make more use of this than I can at the moment.
But, after re-reading the last few notes, I need you all to pay special attention to the two highlighted entries! ;D
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 22, 2007 8:23:01 GMT -5
Oh Drat!  I tried to highlight two particular entries and it did not work. Never mind - the entries I refere to are the marriages in 1696 Richard Morrish, w., & Margaret Gribby 28 Apr 1696
Richard Morrish, alias Fry, & Margaret Hicks 09 Feb 1696They should provide some food for thought. |
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 22, 2007 8:28:46 GMT -5
What are the highlighted entries me dear? Just a small note about something that I've found before in my family... on the Phillimore marriages, although it usually states that a woman is a widow, it does not always state when a man is a widower. Just to confuse us all probably, but it may be something to do with the fact that a man's name would not change no matter how many times he was married? Just guessing here, but I have come across that before.  |
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 22, 2007 8:29:14 GMT -5
Ah, there they are |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 22, 2007 11:58:14 GMT -5
Glad you found them m'Darlin. I agree with what you say about males not always being recorded as 'widowers' at a second marriage and I think I have probably seen similar events with females, although fairly rarely. This is where Wills and other documention can come in handy. However, having corrected my 'mistake' so that the highlighted entries are now 'highlighted' it will be interesting to see what can be made of it all.  Hope I have not confused everyone with the long list of Morrish entries but thought it might be useful in trying to sort out some of this. Would help if I had some more data from the other Parishes concerned but at least it is something to refer to. Now - back to the 'main page' to see what other queries I might be able to answer. |
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 22, 2007 16:15:55 GMT -5
A marriage date in 1709 would also sit well with a christening for Phillip in 1687. Can we confirm that there is nothing in the relevants burial registers to indicate that the Philip of 1687 died young? The St. Erth burials have only two references to John's family, one is of the burial of his infant son John in 1693/4, and of his wife Grace in 1727. He did have an earlier son named John, however, whose burial is not recorded. John (the father) does not have a burial recorded at St. Erth, possibly he moved to another parish with one of his daughters. I have not attempted to trace any of them. |
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 22, 2007 16:22:03 GMT -5
Oh Drat! I tried to highlight two particular entries and it did not work. Never mind - the entries I refere to are the marriages in 1696 Richard Morrish, w., & Margaret Gribby 28 Apr 1696
Richard Morrish, alias Fry, & Margaret Hicks 09 Feb 1696They should provide some food for thought. Eeek! Don't you have it when that happens? So at least the son John Morrish als Try would belong to the second marriage. It would appear that the first marriage looks more likely, however, for a number of reasons: The Richard who was buried in 1705 was not called Morrish als. Fry. This same Richard, being already a widower when he married Margaret, was probably an older man, and more likely to be the one who died in 1705. If all of the children belonged to the second Richard (at least a possibiity), then it may explain why Philip and Margaret had no children either, if she had none with her first husband, yet Philip was able to go on and have children with his subsequent wife. |
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 22, 2007 16:24:47 GMT -5
Children of this marriage: Henry 2 Oct 1697 John 16 May 1698 ("John Morrish or Try") Richard 20 Jun 1699 Christopher 30 Sep 1701 Mary 24 Feb 1703 Jane 25 Jun 1704 Looks very plausible that all of these children were from the Richard Morrish/Margaret Hicks marriage... |
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