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Post by zibetha on Dec 16, 2023 20:56:23 GMT -5
HI, CT,
My wifi has been "improved" from a distance and the "refresh" I did re: my internet browser seems to have cured my keyboard issues but did not preserve my logins/passwords and saved websites as promised. Working on re-inventing myself again.
A technician still has to come to my home and replace equipment. Oh, joy.
I'll read through the above. I am DNA matched to a descendant of Henry Chappell and Bessie/Elizabeth Hocking's son John born 1868 at Cumberland.So Roberts vs Harvey, but that's why the Harvey/Chappells are on my radar. I have not been able to figure this out.
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 16, 2023 22:35:42 GMT -5
Hi Zib - good to know things seem to be on the improve but lets hope that improvement gains a little pace. I don't have it in my database but from looking at the OPC records I presume the marriage you refer to is:- Henry Chappel of Tregaseal and Elizabeth Hill Hocking of Nancherrow at St Just in Penwith 9th February 1860?? I am about to get ready to leave for an emergency services Xmas get together down at the local park so I have made a note of this and will try and look into it a little further when I get home later on tonight. If there are connections to the Harveys then I am interested to see where they lead. CT
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Post by zibetha on Dec 16, 2023 22:39:45 GMT -5
Somehow this all fits together. Enjoy your celebration!
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 18, 2023 4:38:15 GMT -5
I have now pieced together the immediate family of Henry Chappel and Betsey (Elizabeth) Hill Hocking. Determining the correct parents for Henry is a bit of a challenge given there two Henry Chappels baptised just a couple of months apart at St Just in 1832 with the father in each case being John!! There was a Joseph Hocking in the household of Henry and Elizabeth Chappel in Cumberland in 1871 who proved to be Elizabeth's brother but that has not really helped with Henry Chappel. But now the AHA! moment (or perhaps that should be Uh Oh! moment) has arrived! The Henry Chappel who married Elizabeth Hill Hocking was NOT the son of John Chappel and Alice Trenerry at all!!! He therefore must have been the son of the other John who I will now have to do some work on. I have arrived at this conclusion because of the following marriage:- 8th June 1856 Sancreed Henry Chappel age 24 bachelor miner of Brahane son of John Chapel miner and Jane James age 23 spinster of Brahane daughter of Thomas James miner by Banns - Witnesses:- John Toman, William GrenfellThe family of John and Alice Chappel, including son Henry, were living at Brahane in 1851! Alice Trenery's mother was a Roberts but not from the Roberts family I have just been working on so perhaps this might be why you have been having trouble with that Harvey connection. I will now try and work out where the husband of Elizabeth Hill Hocking belongs and see if that helps solve your mystery. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 18, 2023 5:40:28 GMT -5
I think the Henry Chappel who married Elizabeth Hill Hocking was baptised at St Just 16th September 1832 to parents John Chappel (Chaple) and Mary Chappel (Chaple) who married at St Just 12th July 1813.
I have not been able to identify John Chappel as yet but according to the 1841 Census where his age was possible rounded down he was born sometime between about 1770 and 1776. Mary Chappel appears likely to have been baptised at Sennen 3rd February 1793 daughter of William Chappel (Chaple) and Sarah Roberts who were married at Sennen 28th October 1780.
I don't know if that is much help but best I can do for the time being. Overdue for a break now so I will see if I can find time tomorrow to take another look at it all.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 19, 2023 6:27:07 GMT -5
I am not sure where any Harvey connection might be with the Henry Chappel scenario but there does appear to be a Roberts connection on his maternal side.
As mentioned in my earlier post the Henry Chappel who married Elizabeth Hill Hocking was a son of John Chappel and Mary Chappel who married at St Just in 1813. John Chappel is a bit of a problem as according to the Census he was probably born sometime between 1770 and 1776 yet the only option appearing in the OPC records is a John baptised at Illogan in 1771.
Mary Chappel on the other hand was a little younger (1841 Census John age 65 and Mary age 45) and her projected birth is between 1790 and 1796. There are several options for her of which three are in West Penwith - one at St Buryan in 1796 illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth, one at St Just in 1790 daughter of John and Mary and one at Sennen in 1793 daughter of William and Sarah.
John and Mary Chappel had eight children including first daughter named Sarah and third son named William so my favoured option for her is the 1793 Sennen baptism to William and Sarah whose maiden name just appened to be ROBERTS! I believe Sarah to have been baptised at St Just in 1753 to Christopher Roberts and Jane (nee Leggo).
As for Henry son of John Chappel and Alice Trenery - he was still alive in 1861 according to the information provided in the 1861 Census but was supposedly deceased by 1870 when wife Jane (nee James) remarried to George TRENERY! George being the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Trenery of Sennen who was baptised 1st March 1807 to Richard and Jane (Blackwell) Trenery at Sennen. Elizabeth therefore was a niece to Alice wife of John Chappel.
I also just found what appears to be Henry Chappel the husband of Jane James arriving in New York in 1865 aboard the 'City of Boston'. So, given that it is indeed him, it would appear he may have either died in the US sometime prior to 1870 or, as with quite a number of emigrant Cornishman, decided to desert his family in Cornwall and start a new life in America allowing his previous family to consider him deceased.
Will provide further updates as I find anything relevent.
CT
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Post by zibetha on Dec 20, 2023 21:58:34 GMT -5
This is all helpful, CT. I am still sorting things out as a South African connection is involved. Your posts brought up two new ideas for me, one being that the Blackwell family is involved and the other, a reminder that husbands did sometimes "disappear".
I need to do more work on this as my theory is more than a bit creative right now! However, I have a question re: John Blackwell baptized 19-Mar 1837 to William and Ann (Harvey) Blackwell. Ann being the daughter of James Harvey and Margaret Ward. The family of William and Ann seems to have scattered far and wide, and I have last spotted son John in Camborne in 1851. I have not found a death or burial in Cornwall that might be his. If any further information about him is known, I would be interested!
Thanks,
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 21, 2023 4:04:17 GMT -5
All I have done on the family of William and Ann Blackwell is to add children with, where I could find them, birth/baptism details. I found baptisms for all children except for Jane (born c.1835) and youngest daughter Margaret Jane whose birth was registered in the March Qtr of 1850.
I have now just checked Ancestry and FamilySearch for possible signs of John but have found nothing conclusive.
One Ancestry Tree claims he died in the March Qtr of 1905 in the Bedwelty district of Wales but I can find no sign of this particular John Blackwell in Wales at any time so I very much doubt it would be the same man. One 'possible' is a John Blackwell age 43 who died 31st July 1880 in Ontario, Canada. He was a farmer and had been born in England and his cause of death was 'comsumption'. I have not found him in the 1871 Canada Census.
Problem is that there seem to have been quite a number of John Blackwells born in England in, or very close to, 1837 so there can be no guarantee this might be your man either.
I have also looked at South Africa but can find no record of a John Blackwell anywhere.
CT
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Post by zibetha on Dec 21, 2023 11:40:04 GMT -5
OK I think the Blackwell who died in Wales was William in 1905 not John. I think that he (William) was the son of William and Ann Trembath. Different families connected far back. I really need to be more confident about what I think but I am on a trail of thought/research that the John Blackwell son of William and Ann (Harvey) went to South Africa and reportedly died there twice. I know that you can't do that but records are odd as presented by family members who attested. Bear with me, please as I can save you some time with this.
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 21, 2023 12:13:38 GMT -5
I have had another look at South African records on FamilySearch but there is not one John Blackwell record that would go close to matching the son of William and Ann. I can also find nothing in Ancestry - family trees or otherwise. Most curious given your outline to date about this fella. I will be interested to see what you have been able to dig up. CT
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Post by zibetha on Dec 21, 2023 12:45:37 GMT -5
Bits and pieces that might add up with my DNA connection. I have source records and have a timeline that might fit. As said, a John Blackwell is missing in the tree and might have resurfaced in South Africa.
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Post by columb on Dec 30, 2023 7:03:55 GMT -5
For what it's worth.... When I started this thread back in February, I posed the question as to whether Sir Anthony Hervey (father of Rev Francis) was the first "Harvey" in Cornwall. Spikeharwood thought not as according to Bernard Deacon's book, Surnames of Cornwall, Harvey was found widely in Cornwall in the 1500s. The proof of that is to be found in this very forum thanks to lipkatatar's link to the Journal of The Royal Institution of Cornwall, pages 217-270 of which contain a detailed valuation of the lands and goods of the inhabitants of Penwith, based on the Subsidy Roll collected between 1509-1523. On page 224 of this book we find in the parish of Gwinear, Willms Hervie (worth 2 marks) and Ricus Hervie (worth 4 pounds). Also, on page 262, Thomas Hervye (3 pounds) and Pascasius Hervye (15 shillings & 8 pence) and lastly, on page 263, T. Hervye (servant) (12 pence). So that has certainly answered my question.
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Post by zibetha on Jan 1, 2024 10:25:51 GMT -5
Happy New Year,Cousin,
I thank you for all of the questions you have raised as they prompted me to look in other directions beyond my starting point of my own family history. My line resided at Gwinear and Crowan but goes back to St Buryan and surrounding areas. I have been unable to confirm a link to Reverend Francis, but have established one to his wife's family.
There were two Anthony Harvey/Hervies, and I do think that Rev Francis' father was not the one who came to Cornwall.
We are going so far back with this that last names come into question.
I think my line might originate prior to Reverend Francis' arrival in Cornwall. And fear I might be French!
Cheers to you for a good 2024 and sharing discoveries, Zib
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Post by columb on Jan 3, 2024 11:54:52 GMT -5
Cousin Zib, (although I suppose we're all cousins if we go back far enough) .
I'm intrigued that you have found a link to the elusive Mary Yorke. I've been trying to track her down for some time. Most sources suggest that she and her father were born in Wellington, Somerset yet no trace can be found there. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was lead to believe that she was born in Wellington but not in Somerset. I found another Wellington in Herefordshire and spent some time (and money) trying to trace her there to no avail. I have since discovered yet another Wellington; this one in Shropshire. The original lead I was given said "in the north of England" which is why I assumed it was Hereford. To us living in Cornwall, anywhere beyond Bristol is "up north". Shropshire is even further up north. So that's another avenue to explore. The problem is that with all records now monetized, we have to pay to have a look. I should be interested to hear what you know about her. What is the Courteney connection?
As for Rev Francis's father Anthony, perhaps he didn't come to Cornwall. Perhaps Francis was not born in Breage as most suggest. He was at Cambridge as a young man 1581 as we know. He was there at the same time as Sir William Godolphin (repeatedly Sheriff of Cornwall), who was from Breage parish. Perhaps Sir William invited Francis to Cornwall to take up the living of Breage church and he'd never set foot in Cornwall till then. He took up the job in 1595, having married in 1591. That marriage could have taken place anywhere.
As for being French! If you are connected to this lot, you are almost certainly of Bretton blood. That's not French. The Brettons all came from the west of Britain, mainly Devon and Cornwall. My DNA test gave my ethnicity as 21% Irish which made no sense, however, Ancestry has recently updated its ethnicity logic and it transpires that "Irish" now includes Brittany! Viola!
More food for thought.
Columb
PS. CT, do your best.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 3, 2024 17:31:09 GMT -5
Weeeellll How about page 269 of The Visitation of the County of Cornwall. I have just had a look at that particular book to see what mention there might be of Humphrey Yorke and ............... The line begins with Rich. Yorke of Wellington in the County of Somerset! His son Thomas of Wellington in Somerset married Ellinor daughter of Hen. Waldron of Bradfield and of his wife da. & hey (heir) of Whiting of Devonsh. His son Humphrie Yorke of Fillack married Barbara daughter of John Vivian of Trelowarren in p'ochia de Mogan Esq. (Mawgan in Meneage) (That marriage took place at Mawgan in Meneage 3rd September 1585) It is Humphrey's sister Mary who is supposed to have married Francis Harvy Rector de Breague. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now that does not give any information about the marriage of Mary Yorke but the Pedigree does suggest she was indeed born in Wellington, Somerset. CT
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