Is anyone interested in the Trewhellas of Crowan? I have no genealogical connection that I know of, but my interest stems from two of my family members who witnessed the will of Mary Trewhela (proved 1 May 1758). They sign themselves Richard Donne Senior and Richard Donne Junior and out of interest I got a copy of Mary's will (AP/T/2786).
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 14, 2007 10:40:34 GMT -5
Of course I am interested (no offence) 'you silly person you' given I am a Trewhella researcher.
Please forgive me if I occasionally use silly little quotes but it helps to get my mind in order - sometimes. ;D
I have a copy of this particular Will and it deals with a particular part of the Trewhella (var.) family for which I have had problems for more than 20 years.
Mary (of this Will) was the widow of a John Trewhela and they were married at Crowan 30th January 1713.
John Trewhela was buried either 31st January 1728 or 10th October 1737 at Crowan.
It is obvious I have problems here.
I am yet to determine the parentage of John Trewhela and have had a similar problem with his wife.
However - now you have resurrected this Will of Mary it may be possible we something further to work with.
It 'may' be possible that Mary was related to the Donne family and was possibly a 'Donne' herself.
If I can find, with your help, any further information on this family I would be very, very happy.
A daughter of John and Mary Trewhela married William Odgers at Ludgvan in 1743. (This was Catherine)
It seems that William Odgers died and Catherine re-married.
Many people out there think they have problems with their family history.
The widowed Catherine Odgers (nee Trewhela) was married again at Ludgan in 1755 to James TREWHEELA. who had already been widowed twice. as far as I can tell.
Houston - we have a problem. ;D
If you can supply some detail of your connections back to Richard and Richard Donne it may help solve part of the above problem and may also lead me to solutions to a couple of other problems in the Crowan area.
I will be really looking forward to your response here and hope I have time to review it whilst I am moving house.
There may now be a possibility to prove a link between a couple of Trewhella families for whom records have been lacking.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 3, 2015 21:16:16 GMT -5
This thread seemed to get forgotten and consigned to distant memory. However, the Crowan Trewhelas remain the source of quite a number of unanswered questions!
I believe I have finally found the probable solution to one of those questions so I think it quite appropriate that this old forgotten thread be resurrected to lay host to the explanations!
This particular problem involves the marriage at Crowan 19th August 1811 between Joseph Smitheram and Jane Treweeler/Trewheela. For some time I considered the possibility that Jane might have been Jane Blewitt Trewheeler who had been baptized at Crowan in 1774 to Thomas Trewhela and Martha (nee Blewett) but subsequent searching of Census and other records proved that I should be looking for a much younger person. In fact all the records I found indicated that Jane Trewheela should have been born sometime around 1792 at Crowan. Unfortunately, even allowing a few years either side as well as the possibility that a baptism might have occurred in another Parish, I still had no possible Jane/Jennifer to fill the void.
Jane Blewett Trewheeler remains a mystery with no burial and no possible marriage found and after searching all the records again I have still not been able to find a baptism for Jane/Jennifer Trewhela anywhere around 1792. BUT ...................................................
Those interested or connected with the Smitheram families will be aware that there are many variations of the name including SMITHERAM, SMYTHAM, SMETHERAM, SMITHAM, SMYTHRAM to name just a few and of course that makes the task of tracking them down all that much harder. (And the Trewhellas are equally as difficult with more than 27 variations in my own database!!! )
Joseph and Nicholas sons of John and Phillis Smitheram, paupers, were baptized at St Hilary 18th April 1786 (John Smitham and Phillis Bawden married at Perranuthnoe 28th October 1769)
Joseph Smitheram of Camborne and Jane Treweeler were married at Crowan by Banns 19th August 1811 with both marking their mark. One of the witnesses to this marriages was a 'Benney Trewhela' who signed his name. I made some comparisons of that signiature with some other marriage records and discovered that this was Benjamin Trewhela who had been baptized at Crowan in 1777 to Thomas Trewhela and Martha (nee Blewett). This meant that Benjamin was the brother of the Jane Blewitt Trewheeler mentioned above.
Joseph and Jane/Jennifer baptized five children at Camborne between 1812 and 1819 with Joseph being buried at Camborne 22nd November 1819 just two months after the baptism of his last child. On January 8th 1822 at Camborne 'Jennifer Smitherham, widow, married again to Nicholas Donnithorne who had been baptized at Marazion in 1789. There appear to have been no further children.
Armed with all this information it should have been relatively easy to identify Jane/Jennifer but as has already been pointed out I could never find any baptism for a Jane/Jennifer Trewhela (var.) to match the results of those searches.
Just a couple of hours ago I tried one more search of the Crowan records looking for anything slightly out of the ordinary that might offer a clue. I searched between1787 and 1794 for any Jane or Jennifer with a surname beginning with 'T' and I also searched all baptisms for that same period where the surname began with 'T' but was unsuccessful. And then I decided to try just one more thing ..............................
Again searching the same period from 1787-1794 I decided look at all baptisms where the name began with Jan or Jen and finally one particular entry caught my eye!
Jenifer daughter of Thomas Blewett & Elizth. his wife born 1 Dec and baptized 30 Jany 1792
There were two reasons this entry caught my eye - 1. the surname 'Blewett' and 2. the parents being Thomas and Elizabeth. I already had a Jane Blewitt Trewheeler in 1773 who had been ruled out as the possible wife of Joseph Smitheram but the fact that Joseph's marriage was witnessed by Benney Trewhela suggested there should be a connection.
I next decided to have another look at the family of Thomas Trewhela and Martha Blewett to see if there was any possibility there might have been room for an unbaptized grandchild and it was at that point that 'all became clear'!
The eldest child of Thomas and Martha was Thomas Trewhela who was baptized at Crowan 5th June 1763. Thomas married Elizabeth Hancock at Crowan 31st January 1785 and had the following children all baptized at Crowan:-
Thomas 28th August 1785 Elizabeth 22nd July 1787 Richard 23rd June 1789 (btw - it was this Richard who took his family to Ireland. One son ended up in New York and another found his way to Chile) <gap> <======================= John 21st September 1794 Margaret 15th December 1796 Martha 2nd February 1800 Ann 5th May 1802
Note the regular gaps between most of the children with the exception of the rather large gap of five years between Richard and John!!
Now let's add that baptism of 'Jenifer daughter of Thomas Blewett & Elizth. his wife born 1 Dec and baptized 30 Jany 1792' and then consider the following points:-
1. between 1760 and 1810 there is just ONE marriage involving a Thomas Blewett (var. incl Bluett) with wife Elizabeth and that was not until 1797 at Camborne. 2. between 1761 and 1798 there is just ONE baptism for Blewett/Bluett (var.) where the parents were Thomas and Elizabeth and that was the baptism of Jennifer at Crowan in 1792.
All baptisms between 1799 and 1810 for Blewett where the parents were Thomas and Elizabeth belong to Thomas Blewett, widower, and Elizabeth Vincent who married at Camborne in 1797.
SO! - there is no possible marriage to account for Jennifer Blewett at Corwan in 1792. In fact the nearest marriage for a Thomas Blewett and Elizabeth prior to that baptism is back before 1760 in the St Just area and that is more than 30 years! And there are no other Blewett children with parents Thomas and Elizabeth until after the 1797 Camborne marriage. Widowed Thomas Bleweet was 'of Gwinear' when he married and the first child of that marriage was baptized at Gwinear. The next child was given the name Richard Vincent Blewett when baptized at Camborne in 1800 and his name unmistakably links him to the 1797 marriage.
The only logical answer to this is that Jennifer Blewett of 1792 must be the Jane Treweeler who married Joseph Smitheram in 1811! And I would suggest the possibility that Thomas Trewhela was sometimes known as Thomas Blewett Trewhela so when the Vicar entered the baptism in the register he merely wrote 'Thomas Blewett' rather than 'Thomas Blewett Trewhela'. (Remember that there is already a precedent in the family with Jane Blewitt Trewheela baptized in 1773.
So Jennifer was the daughter of Thomas Trewhela and his wife Elizabeth (nee Hancock) and not, as recorded, of Thomas and Elizabeth Blewett.
Good job with that, CT! I have the Jennifer/Janes lined up the same way with same dearth of records until your new reasoning. To attempt to link to Roger Donne's family in some way, I think Martha (nee Blewett) Trewhela's brother Gabriel Blewett and his wife, Elizabeth Phillips, had a son Thomas who with wife number 2, Philippa Rutter, had a daughter, Philippa Blewett born about 1821. Philippa married John Dunn, son of Richard Dunn 1781 and Margaret Mary Jenkin. Philippa and John's daughter, Harriet Blewett Dunn (1841) married an Edward Berryman, and daughter, Phillipa Blewett Dunn (1843), was the wife of my 2x great-granduncle, James Bartle Semmons, son of Henry Semmons and Mary Bartle.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 5, 2015 0:49:38 GMT -5
I will check out those links and see how it looks. I am not sure about connections back to the two Richard Donne's involved in Mary Trewhela's 1758 Will but it would be nice to get a little more of Martha's family tidied up anyway.
One thing I think I can now do is, with reasonable certainty, identify the first wife of Thomas Blewett. The original Crowan Marriage Register for 1754-1812 is in a poor state with the greater percentage of entries at the top of each page being badly damaged by water and fragmentation. Because of that it is generally very difficult to read and signiatures are often illegible. Fortunately I am able to just make out enough in this case to be helpful.
It appears most likely that the first marriage for Thomas Blewett took place at Crowan which means that we have only two choices. The difficult thing is that in each case the bride's name was MARY WILLIAMS!!
1. Thomas Blewett and Mary Williams married 10th May 1794 Crowan 2. Thomas Blewett and Mary Williams married 4th November 1798 Crowan
Thomas Blewett was baptized 5th April 1777 so, given he was baptized within a couple of months of birth, he was just 17 at the time of the 1794 marriage. Although he may have been married young the 1798 marriage would seem the more likely. The Thomas Blewett who married in 1794 signed with his mark whereas in the 1798 marriage Thomas was able to sign his own name. I have seen instances where a person signed with a 'mark' in one document but later actually signed their name and likewise I have seen where a person has signed their name to a docuemtn and then later used a 'mark'. In this case we are probably looking at two different Thomas Blewetts especially when considering the Thomas of interest would have been just 17 in 1794.
But there is one more detail that I just found and which is quite helpful. I began searching for possible children of these marriages to see if I could find an overlap point so that I might distinguish between them and thus, hopefully, identify the man who married Philippa Rutta. All I found was just the one baptism in 1794.
Edwd son of Thomas and Mary Blewet baptized 11th October 1794 (born 9th October)
That is very helpful because on that very same day (11th October) there a Mary Blewett was buried. The fact that the child was baptized just two days after birth is suggestive as is the burial of Mary on the same day.
By process of elimination that leaves the 1798 marriage to Mary Williams as the most likely first marriage for the husband of Philippa Rutta. And I then suggest the following is her burial:-
Mary Blewett age 33 buried 5th September 1811 Crowan
Odd, but not totally unusual, is that there appear to have been no children from this first marriage.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 5, 2015 4:58:34 GMT -5
Zib - I agree on most of what you posted about John Dunn and his family. What I am not sure about is the identity of his father Richard who may, or may not, be the Richard Dunn age 48 buried at Crowan in 1828. My difficulty here is largely due to the fact that I can find no further record of his wife Margaret after the baptism of their last child in 1825. So far I have found no possible burial and no possible remarriage and she does not seem to appear in the 1841 or 1851 Census.
The next problem with the family of Richard and Margaret is the confusion created by the available records and the fact you have recorded Margaret as 'Margaret Mary' I think is testament to that. The confusion begins with the naming of the first son as Henry and is compounded by three baptisms to Richard and MARY Dunn at Crowan in 1814, 1815 and 1816. Those children are Thomas, Richard and Richard but as I cannot find a burial for the first Richard (1815) I suspect there may be an error and that one of the Richards might be son of Richard and MARGARET. But the other two children I suspect will belong to Richard Dunn of Crowan and Mary Bastard who married at Sithney in 1813. As no children are baptized to this couple at Sithney until 1822 it is reasonable to expect that some were baptized at Crowan before that date.
Looking back at earlier baptisms does suggest Richard was baptized in 1781 and he would be the son of Richard Dunn (signed Donne) and Elizabeth Floyd who married at Crowan in 1764. They had one daughter baptized at St Erth and the remainder of their children at Crowan. This Richard in turn may have been the son of Richard and Philippa (Blight).
I will leave it at that for the moment as I have other things to attend to but perhaps Roger might be able to add something to the discussion to help sort this out.
I tend to agree with the general line which CT has suggested for the ancestry of Richard Dunn bur. 1828 at Crowan -the age at death of 48 makes the 1781 baptism feasible, though as with most of these genealogical puzzles one can only make decisions based on the balance of probabilities. I have also noted a Richard Dunn aged 16 in the list of Crowan miners complied in 1798 (original in Courtney Library at Truro). I have Richard Dunn marrying first Christian Rodda in 1803 in Crowan producing one son Richard in November, and then marrying Margaret Jenkin in 1806 following the death of Christian in 1805.
I have noted the Richard Dunn/ Mary Bastard family in my database but I have made no linkage to any ancestry.
By the way, 'my' Dunn family seemed to live at Kerthen Wood on the borders of Crowan and St. Erth with the parish church at St. Erth closer than Crowan church. It seems to me that St. Erth was often chosen for baptisms and burials just for its convenience.
I must thank you for your wonderful maps regarding land ownership in the area. I was working on an clunker of a computer with little space to spare for new programs when my employer gifted us with ipad mini computers as a holiday present. I was able to use the googlemap feature and view your work re; the Kirthen Wood area. Fantastic and very helpful!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 6, 2015 21:20:48 GMT -5
Roger - I had not picked up on a possible previous marriage for Richard Dunn which is mostly due to the fact that he was not recorded as a widower when he married Margaret Jenkin. But after looking at the information and checking the registers I tend to agree that he had been previously married to Christian Rodda.
This also now seems to fit with my comments about the three children baptized to Richard and MARY Dunn at Crowan in that period 1813 to 1818. There is a Richard Dunn age 9 buried at Crowan in 1812 and he is no doubt the son of Richard and Christian baptized soon after the 1803 marriage. In each of 1815 and 1816 there is a recorded baptism for Richard son of Richard and MARY Dunn and with no burial evident it is probable that one of these should be to Richard and MARGARET.
Further checking of later registers should sort that problem out so if I get a little time later on I will take a look. I might also pursue the Sithney family of Richard Dunn and Mary Bastard to see if I can identify where this Richard belongs.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 6, 2015 23:21:29 GMT -5
I believe I may have part of the problem solved as I have just found Margaret Dunn in the 1841 Census. She was at Beripper, Camborne with children Richard and John (both 20) and William and Elizabeth (both 15) and this once again points to one of the two Richards baptized to Richard and Mary at Crowan being incorrectly recorded with mother Mary.
Next point is that in 1842 at Crowan a Richard Dunn, son of Richard, married Philippa Rodda. In 1851 this Richard gave his age as 27 and birthplace Sithney and he also had a son named Josias. This fits with the 1815 baptism at Crowan and also places him in the family of Richard Dunn and Mary Bastard who also had a son named Josias baptized in 1838. I should point out that this child was recorded as Jonah in the Sithney register when he was baptized.
That leaves the 1816 baptism of Richard s/o Richard and Mary to be the child of Richard and Margaret. And it also adds further evidence supporting the 1828 burial of Richard Dunn at Crowan being the husband of Margaret.
A correction - I have just had a closer look at the 1838 baptism for the son of Richard and Mary Dunn at Sithney. I mentioned above that the name was recorded as Jonah but that is not correct - it has been transcribed as Jonah but on close inspection the name is actually Josiah.
I am now happy that the Richard Dunn who married Christian Rodda and then Margaret Jenkin was the son of Richard Dunn/Donne and Elizabeth Floyd and that he was the Richard buried at Corwan in 1828.
Now for Richard with wife Mary Bastard. In 1851 he stated he was born at Sithney but baptism records show this cannot have been the case. In fact the OPC records show only two Dunn/Donne children baptized at Sithney between 1780 and 1800 - an illegitimate child in 1797 and Grace Trevilian Dunn in 1800. Richard may have been born at Sithney but certainly not baptized there.
A search for possible baptisms suggests that Richard was probably baptized at Crowan in 1790 to Richard and Elizabeth Dunn although his age in the 1851 Census suggests he was born a year or two earlier. However his wife was widowed by 1861 and living at Camborne with some of her children so there is nothing readily available to verify Richard's age. FreeBMD does not include ages in the Death Index until about 1866 and at the moment Camborne burial records for that period are not readily available.
I would suggest that the following marriage is most likely that of the parents of Richard Dunn:-
Richard Dunn, tinner and Elizabeth Berriman, both of the Parish, married by Banns 19th December 1789 at Breage. Witnesses - Richd Treweek, Thomas Johns
Children of this marriage all appear to have been baptized at Crowan - Richard, Prudence, Ann, Charles, John and George - and those names now suggest Richard was the son of Richard Dunn and Prudence Ripper who married at Breage in 1765.
Thanks CT, that's a very convincing analysis. I had picked up the burial of the young Richard Dunn aged 9 in Crowan in 1812 but I had not connected the Richard Dunn/Mary Bastard family with that of Richard Dunn and Prudence Ripper of Breage. However I do have the Dunn/ Ripper family in the database having linked their son William bap. 11 Apr 1786 in Breage with the marriage of William Dunn and Elizabeth Harvey in Crowan 31 Jan 1808. I'm not sure if there is a connection between the Dunns of Breage and Crowan - I have Richard Dunn of the Prudence Ripper marriage springing from Daniel Dunn and Mary Allan mar. 5 Jan 1734/35 in Breage, and Daniel is quite an unusual name in the Crowan family.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 7, 2015 21:17:56 GMT -5
Hi Roger - I have not pursued these families to any great extent so cannot answer the question of connections however I think it is appropriate to keep in mind that Breage and Crowan are adjoining Parishes with a substantial border. The possibility of connections certainly cannot be discounted.
I think is becoming more intriguing: Richard Dunn and Philippa Rodda's son, Richard married Harriet Ann Bartle (approx. 1872 probably Crowan area) and then traveled to Gilpin, Colorado, where he can be found on the 1880 US Census in his brother, Josiah's household along with their brother, William. (William married Hester Jane Berryman, granddaughter of Thomas Cory and Mary Trewhela in 1883-- Helston Registration District.)
Richard and Harriet's 2nd son and namesake of a brother who didn't thrive, James Bartle Dunn born Durham, England 1875 came to the US and managed to meander away from the family in Gilpin to Montana where he married Martha Jane Barker, the daughter of William Barker and Mary Whinnen. Martha was born in Houghton County, Michigan in 1878, and I had located the family as part of my previous work on the Ford/Whinnen families in the US. I had her mother Mary Whinnen baptized 1840 in St Erth being the daughter of James Whinnen and Elizabeth Calloway. Her father, James, was the son of John Whinnen and Mary Blight, and his next oldest brother, Richard, was the husband of Peninah Blee also known as Williams, Spike Harwood's ancestors whom we've discussed previously on this board.
Post by spikeharwood on Aug 10, 2015 0:19:02 GMT -5
I've been following this thread with interest since it burst back to life after an eight year hiatus. It is yet another example of the thoroughness of CT's research and the never give up attitude. And it's turned into a well rounded and interesting discussion, thanks to Zib and Roger for adding extra information. It's always satisfying to see one's own family linking up with others. I did have Martha Barker in my database with other siblings and their spouses, but nothing on the Dunns. Most of the Whinnen/Callaway children (11 of them?) seemed to have left England for the U.S., although at least two of the girls ended up in Sth Aust. There seemed to have been a fair bit of marrying back to their countrymen and women with names like Dunstan, Berryman, Barnicoat, Heaven, Thomas etc. Spike