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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 12, 2017 1:33:45 GMT -5
Hmmm - this is either a second marriage or there is another William Thomas Clyma Brown that I haven't yet come across. The information I found yesterday ws that William Thomas Clyma Brown married Sophia Jane Northey (nee Williams) at Truro St John 24th January 1884. Yes, after checking the 1891 Census I see that William Brown, now a widower, was at Wigan with his brother-in-law Isaiah Ashton and family. Also with William was his step-daughter Clara Northey so it is then a case of a second marriage. Isaiah Ashton's wife was the sister of Sophia Jane Williams who had first married William Northey in 1868 and then William Thomas Clyma Brown in 1884. Not an easy family to piece together with Elizabeth Ann Williams, I now know, having married thrice - 1. John Collick in 1865 (Helston R.D.) 2. Richard George in 1868 (Truro R.D.) and then 3. Isaiah Ashton in 1888 (Wigan R.D.). As the first two marriages were shortlived and all events took place between Census years it took some doing to piece it all together but I think I now have most of the basic information. Unfortunately many of the events also did not take place in the Established Church! Re Emma Jane Williams (wife of Thomas Clymo Brown) - she was baptized Camelford Wesleyan Circuit 13th June 1842 daughter of Thomas and Jane Williams. The parents were Thomas Charles Williams and Jane Richards who married at Lanteglos by Camelford 28th September 1841. I cannot find Thomas and Jane as yet in the 1851 Census but Emma Jane was with her grandparents William and Elizabeth Richards at Lanteglos by Camelford at that time with both grandparents having been born at Camelford. That now seems to suggest that your Bennetts link might be more likely. Problem is that I can find no way at the moment to prove whether Sarah Bennetts was the daughter of Johnson (bp. 1749 Camborne) or Arthur (bp. 1751 Camborne). I cannot find a burial that might match either of these girls and at Camborne I can find only the marriage to Edward Quintrall which means one of the Sarah Bennetts is still 'floating loose' somewhere. I have searched the CRO Catalogue and can find no Will for Johnson Bennetts or for Edward Quintrall and also none for Arthur Bennetts. Also Sarah Quintrall,widow, was buried in 1812 ..... the year before they began recording ages at Camborne!! Doesn't help with Grace Trewhela at the moment but hope is not lost! CT
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Post by zibetha on Feb 12, 2017 3:14:46 GMT -5
Having dug into this further today, I found that Jenefer/Jane Quintrell's brother, Edward Rodney, named a son Johnson Quintrell in 1808, and Johnson also named a son Johnson in 1830. Thus, I am eliminating Arthur as Sarah's father and casting my vote for Johnson as Sarah's father.
The other thing I have not pinned down is where the Clymo/Clyma name originates. I've yet to make progress on the Brown side of this equation.
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 12, 2017 5:24:45 GMT -5
I hadn't looked at Edward Rodney Quintrell but you are quite right - naming a son Johnson is significant and I agree with your conclusion. No more progress made at this end on the identification of Grace Trewhela but I think I have found a little more about Margaret who had married William Edmonds in 1793. I now believe the following to be most likely this family:- Margaret wife of William Edmonds buried 25th November 1796 Penzance
There was another William Edmonds (with wife Rebecca Bottrell) baptizing children at Madron/Penzance from around 1780 but it appears very likely that William and Margaret 'may' have been the parents of twins William and Margaret Edmonds baptized at Penzance in April 1796. They may also be the parents of a Jane Edmonds baptized in 1793 but unfortunately I have not been able to find anything else to confirm the theory. It also appears likely that William and second wife Ann may have had a couple of children - possibly a William baptized 1799 and Anne baptized 1801 at Penzance along with a daughter Eliza at St Buryan in 1803. Again I cannot be absolutely certain. I've also tried finding origins for the Clymo name but the only possible clue I can find is a marriage for a Thomas Brown to a Catherine Clemmo at St Teath in 1736. There is one other marriage for an Isaac Brown at Cubert in 1774 but his wife's name is not really certain - it could be Clemo or it could be Clemes. Unfortunately I have been unable to find any children for this couple but the marriage is a good fit for Abraham whose death suggests was born around 1777. Also interesting is that Abraham and Jenefer named a son 'Isaac Edward'! That will probably be all I can do for tonight. CT
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Post by donne on Feb 12, 2017 15:40:38 GMT -5
There is one other marriage for an Isaac Brown at Cubert in 1774 but his wife's name is not really certain - it could be Clemo or it could be Clemes. Unfortunately I have been unable to find any children for this couple but the marriage is a good fit for Abraham whose death suggests was born around 1777. Also interesting is that Abraham and Jenefer named a son 'Isaac Edward'! CT After looking at the marriage register image on familysearch, the bride's name looks to be recorded as 'Catherene Clemeo' to me, though I agree there is room for doubt. Unusually the groom is said to be a 'soldier of the 9th regiment of foot' so his family may have 'followed the regiment' which could account for there being no baptisms in Cubert. After some googling, I see that the 9th Regiment of Foot later became the Royal Norfolk Regiment and was first associated with the county in 1782 when it became the 9th East Norfolk Regiment, see www.rnrm.org.uk/history/history_01.html . By the way, I've just found an excellent regimental history online, first published in 1848, available at archive.org/stream/cihm_45418#page/n67/mode/2up which says that the regiment was stationed in Ireland from 1769 until 1776. when it was sent to Canada to take part in the American Revolutionary War. It was forced to surrender at the Battle of Saratoga, and its troops were held as prisoners-of-war before being repatriated in 1782. Upon return to England the regional association with Norfolk was formed and after recruitment there and in Wales the regiment marched to Scotland where it remained until 1785 when it once again embarked for Ireland. It's difficult to see how Catherine and Isaac got together - possibly he was a local lad who enlisted, or maybe just passing through on the way to Ireland.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 12, 2017 23:48:37 GMT -5
I have now checked FamilySearch but although I can find numerous children baptized to Isaac Brown in England during the years 1772-1790 there are none where the mother's name was Catherine. Only very few with no mother's name recorded but they are mostly in Derby and extend beyond 1790.
Any thoughts of a link between Abraham and Isaac would seem to be diminishing rapidly!
CT
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Post by zibetha on Feb 15, 2017 1:02:54 GMT -5
Thanks, CT & Roger, I have transferred a lot of Bennetts from my worksheet to my main tree (Vivians are involved. too) but have only found links to the Browns and Trezonas via marriage at this point. Great info re: Margaret Trewhela and William Edwards. Even when I follow a path to what seems to be a dead end, I am not discouraged. The connection will appear at some point Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 11, 2017 15:50:44 GMT -5
BIG NEWS for those with interests in the family of Thomas Trewhela and Martha Blewett. You will all be no doubt aware that Thomas was linked to the Camborne family partially on circumstantial evidence, partly on the contents of the Will of John Trewhela of Kenwyn in 1753 and partly on his age at death. All of this information suggested that he was the son of John Trewheeler of Camborne and his second wife Margaret Parsons who were marred at Lanteglos-by-Camelford in 1739. Even linking that marriage to Camborne was a little circumstantial given the distance between Lanteglos and Camborne but the conclusions did fit with the known information. The one thing missing that might help confirm these links was the actual baptism of Thomas Trewhela and that particular piece of information has eluded me for more than 30 years!!! It cannot be found in transcripts because it seems that most records for Lanteglos prior to 1813 are not available and not in the FamilySearch collections of Cornwall Parish Registers. Regardless of this I had hoped that I might one day locate the information I wanted. Well ....................... NOW I HAVE IT!! Earlier tonight I found that FamilySearch had amongst its collection the Exeter BTs for Lanteglos. These BTs cover years not covered in the Bodmin BTs including the period 1737-1740. The Marriage of John Trewheeler and Margaret Parsons can be found in Phillimore but here now is the information from the Exeter BTs:- 1739John Trewheeler & Magaret Parsons were marryed the twenty seventh of July - Banns
1740Thos. the son of John Treweeler and Margerit his wife was baptized May the 18th.This now gives us the link that proves that Thomas Trewhela of Crowan was indeed the son of John and Margaret of Camborne as I had long suspected. CT
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Post by sue on Jul 12, 2017 13:31:32 GMT -5
Isn't it good to eventually have a find that gives the actual evidence needed, especially after so many years! 11/10 for perseverance! It might even inspire me to look again at some of the unproven suppositions and/or missing links in my own family...... Sue
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Post by zibetha on Jul 12, 2017 19:00:49 GMT -5
As this Thomas Trewhela is the man who was the subject of my original query on this board, I am thrilled. As I skip a page back I find a (true but now silly) statement that I had no knowledge of any connection to Camelford. CT, your wonderful discovery has led me to review the information about Grace Trewhela, wife of Thomas Clymo Brown.
Thoughts percolating-- and many thanks for sharing this new resource.
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 13, 2017 2:43:12 GMT -5
Following you to 'skip back a page' I came across the above in reference to Thomas Bartle. As I think the question was left unanswered I decided to check the GRO Index to see what I could find and discovered that the Thomas born in 1844 that I was referring to was NOT the son of James and Jane. The mother of this Thomas bore the surname 'Gilbert'. But there was another Thomas Bartle registered in the June Qtr of 1844 Helston R.D. - THOMAS HILL BARTLE. I don't know what that does for or against the problem but it should probably be of some help. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 13, 2017 6:48:58 GMT -5
I have also been having another look at the problem of Grace Trewhela, wife of Thomas Clymo Brown and I have arrived at 'a' conclusion about her possible identity. Grace 'could' have been the daughter of John Trewhela as she stated at marriage but it would be unlikely that Mary Holman was her mother. The fact that Grace was over at Penzance/Madron when she married and that she was 'of Chyandour' at the time combined with stating her birthplace as Crowan in the Census is a little out of character for this family who mostly seemed to stay around Crowan. This then suggests the possibility that Grace may have been an illegitimate child. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any Bastardy records for the relevant period at Crowan but there is one possible baptism:- Grace daughter of Mary Penhall born 20th February and baptized 6th March 1808 at CrowanGrace's age varied throughout the Census with the possible birth range being at least 1808 to 1811 so this baptism is certainly a possibility. So far I have not been able to find any further record of Grace Penhall or of her mother Mary so there is nothing really to support my thinking. But ................. CT
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Post by zibetha on Jul 13, 2017 17:40:01 GMT -5
CT, I came to the same conclusion re: Grace's probable father. The other "thing" nagging me is that she was married at Gulval. Why? I know from some of Ten Pound Pom's posts that there were Trewhellas there.
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 14, 2017 2:49:20 GMT -5
That had me wondering as well at one time but the consistency in saying she was born at Crowan and the fact that, in spite of what people have said in the past, people DID move around a little. Although not mentioned in the marriage record Grace could have been a servant of some description which could also have explained her presence in Gulval.
But what is more intriguing about this is that Chyandour was actually the home of James and Elizabeth Trewhella at least during the period 1834-1847. This James was a son of our mysterious Henry Trevela and Jane Grenfell!
This perhaps gives me a little more to ponder over ......
CT
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Post by zibetha on Nov 4, 2021 3:53:39 GMT -5
I am not finished with this branch. Am I correct in thinking we never identified widow Mary who started this all when Roger introduced her? I am sorting through more DNA matches back to John Trewhela and wife Alice.
Zib
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Post by zibetha on Nov 4, 2021 5:04:54 GMT -5
I am working through this and discounting/ disregarding a Quick connection given from a Crowan cousin. Moving on. We try our best.
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