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Furze
Mar 30, 2009 18:10:13 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Mar 30, 2009 18:10:13 GMT -5
HELP!!! I've discovered yet another brick wall I am seeking the name of the wife of Uter Furze born, I believe, in Sancreed (although another source says Madron), in 1806. I know her name was Mary, agin I believe she came from Sancreed but yet agin, it could have been Madron. The 1841 census finds Uter and Mary, both aged 35, in Brane with their family. The eldest child is John aged 15 so presumably they were married in abt 1825. I have Uter as passing through the pearly gates in 1864 aged 57. Last known address Union House Sancreed. Two questions....where were they married.....when were they married and what was Mary's family name (OK, so that's three questions) I can't find any record at all Tony M
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Furze
Mar 30, 2009 21:09:33 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 30, 2009 21:09:33 GMT -5
Try this one Tony:- Paul Marriages (also found in OPC) 12 Oct 1824 by Banns Uter Furse Mary Tonkin [Mark] Witnesses: Andrew Nicholls, [?] Williams That should just about do the trick for you! CT
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Furze
Mar 31, 2009 12:04:04 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Mar 31, 2009 12:04:04 GMT -5
Thanks CT. How the hangman did you manage to get this from the OPC ? I checked OPC and it came back "not found". Now I have found out it was in Paul I checked it out on the West Penwith Resources site and found it exactly as you say. I had checked that site before by typing 'Furze' into the search box but ...the family came up under 'census' not marriage. Don't know why it isn't coming up for me under the OPC banner, so have e-mailed the OPC for Paul to ask for more info. Tony M
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Furze
Mar 31, 2009 12:08:36 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 31, 2009 12:08:36 GMT -5
Tony - I would suggest it is most likely the spelling. It is in the OPC site (same as the Paul OPRs) as FurSe and not FurZe. CT
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Furze
Mar 31, 2009 17:39:56 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Mar 31, 2009 17:39:56 GMT -5
Wow CT Cracked it in one! It was the spelling. Now to see if I can trace either party back from whence they came.....The Red Lion....the Fox and Grapes...the Frog and Nightingale?? Tony M
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Furze
Aug 24, 2009 11:47:24 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 24, 2009 11:47:24 GMT -5
Back on the trail of good old Uter and Mary. Two questions 1. Has anyone any record of where and when Uter was born? He died in 1864 according to the OPC for Sancreed and in the various census returns he seems to have been born in St Just. His age at burial is given as 57 indicating his birth was in 1807.... 2. Which Mary Tonkin was his wife? Uter's wife Mary Tonkin who died in 1864 at St Levan was aged 66 making her date of birth as 1798. In census records she gives her place of birth as Madron......There aint no Mary Tonkin born in Madron in 1798. There is a Mary Tonkin born there in 1794, and another one born in 1795 father William (also a record of a Mary dying in 1794 but no record of her age) or, alternatively a Mary Tonkin born in Sennen in Nov 1797 father Thomas, mother Mary. Mary's last child was born in1842 which makes her 48 if she is the one born 1794. A wee bit old, but not impossible. Which one was Uter's wife? 1794 Mary, 1795 Mary both from Madron or the 1797 Mary from Sennen? To compund the issue....in all census declarations, the extrapolation of their dates of birth seem to indicate that they were born Abt 1806. I know that census dates of birth can be out by as much as 10 years, but consistantly so and as much as 12 years? Uter's is approx correct but Mary's!!!
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Furze
Aug 24, 2009 14:40:18 GMT -5
Post by HeatherC on Aug 24, 2009 14:40:18 GMT -5
Hello there Just a tip when searching the main Cornwall OPC database, use the wildcard option on name spellings or year to search example Surname FURZE as a wildcard option to cover all returns (hopefully ) Type FUR%...... same for given names If you want to search say all the 1850's, Type 185% And you can either type in a parish or leave blank BTW there is a tree on Ancestry which gives Uter FURSE as son of John FURSE (b Yarnscombe Devon 1762) and Sarah HARRIS (b Yarnscombe Devon 1766) and they married on 30 April 1786 Yarnscombe Devon Siblings of Uter who were all born Yarnscombe Devon with the exception of George, Alphington, Devon...... That makes me think that Uter would also have been born Devon if this tree is correct..... no sources given, soooooooooooooo James b 1786 Elizabeth b1790 Jane b1791 Edward b1794 John b1796 George c1800 - 1877 Alphington, Devon Thomas b1803 Grace c 1803 Sally b1805 Uter c1805 (gives St Just and yet child before and after Devon) William b1808 The OPC for Yarnscombe Devon is William Cooke and his web page is www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukdevon/StGilesOPC.htmwhich gives details of how to contact him However......... I think this is more likely correct Another tree gives Uter's baptism as St Buryan 13 July 1803 and on the IGI there IS an UTTER FURSE bapt. 13 JUL 1803 Saint Buryan, Cornwall, s/o John FURSE and CONSTANCE (Taken from the registers not a patrons submission) John FURSE and CONSTANCE WILLIAMS married 09 MAY 1789 Saint Buryan, Cornwall Other children of John and Constance (all St Buryan) John 03 JUN 1789 Constance 31 JUL 1791 Elizabeth 30 AUG 1793 Elizabeth 17 JUN 1798 Ann 1800 (no day/month given) Sarah 29 SEP 1805 Sarah 21 MAY 1809 Mary 08 SEP 1811 So, I think we have found your Uter/Utter Just which Mary to work on Best regards HeatherC
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Furze
Aug 24, 2009 14:54:04 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 24, 2009 14:54:04 GMT -5
Thanks Heather,
There are quite a few Furz(s)es knocking about in Devon.
I also have (from family sources which need confirming) the John and Sarah mentioned, but not the Harris bit. Then again I have a John born 1762 in Meeth Devon.
I'm pretty sure Uter's father was a John and that John's father was William, but the info I have is all very sketchy. For example, John's father William could possibly be William Furze b 1735 of Gwenap who married Mary Walters in 1760 in Crowan, but what about the Devon link? Family 'history' says they came from 'Up Country'....is that Devon or Crowan? Crowan would be 'up country' from Sancreed.
Spotted a 'peculiar' thing in the 1841 census.....Uter and Mary had a child Rebecka b abt 1837 who does not appear to be living with them in Sancreed. There is however a Rebecka Furze of the correct age living with Henry and Elizabeth Perrow in St Just, two doors away from a Matthew Furze Blacksmith...also in this other Furze family is a Constance Furze aged 74.
So far I am not able to link Matthew (Blacksmith) with my lot, but the name Matthew does appear in Uter's children.
After writing my little contribution, I put it on the board to find that you had added to your initial bit.....and lo and behold.....we suddenly have the name Constance appearing. HMMMMM
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Furze
Aug 24, 2009 19:18:10 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 24, 2009 19:18:10 GMT -5
I'm now sure Uter's parents were John and Constance. Uter and Mary had a daughter Rebecca. who is not living with them in Sancreed on the 1841 census. There is however, a Rebecca of the correct age living two doors away from a Matthew Furze in St Just with a Henry and Elizabeth Perrow. With Matthew Furze is an old lady Constance Furze. The IGI lists an UTTER Furse being born 1803 the son of John Furse and Constance Furse OPC for St Buryan lists John Furse marrying Constance Williams on 09 May 1789 So...we have John marrying Constance who have a son Utter. Guess what...that's right John and Constance have a son (amongst other children) Matthew born St Levan 19 Jun 1814. Utter and Matthew are brothers. The 1851 census lists our Uter as Uter Wms Furze the same middle name as the maiden name of Constance. Coincidence? Uter has the same middle name as Matthew's mother's maiden name. Matthew lives two doors away from a couple who are looking after a child who is missing from the houshold of Uter and Mary. I rest my case M'Lord. ;D Now to find out which Mary married Uter and aslo to find out if the Perrows were related.....doesn't seem like it at the moment
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 6:05:17 GMT -5
Post by HeatherC on Aug 25, 2009 6:05:17 GMT -5
Hello Again Re - Rebecca FURSE, living with Henry and Elizabeth PERROW at St Just in the 1841 census aged 5.... something else a little strange Baptisms Sancreed1 April 1837 Rebecca FURZE d/o JOSEPH (labourer) and Mary of Bosworten Marriages Sancreed26 January 1856, Thomas BENNETTS age 20, miner of Chapel Court, Father James Bennetts, miner to Rebecca FURZE, 19 of Chapel Court, Father UTER FURE (as transcribed), miner by Banns, groom mark, bride signed, Witnesses Grace FURZE and John TOMAN Best regards HeatherC
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 6:41:31 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 25, 2009 6:41:31 GMT -5
If you don't already have it you might like the following:- Constance d/o UTER and Rebecca Williams bp. 15th May 1768 at St Buryan Uter Williams of St Buryan married Rebecca Rowe 4th November 1757 at St Just in Penwith CT
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 7:00:00 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 25, 2009 7:00:00 GMT -5
Another strange one for you. Been having trouble locating a burial for Constance Furze. FreeBMD shows a death for Constance Furze in the December Qtr of 1849 - Penzance R.D. I have searched Sennen, St Levan, Sancreed, St Buryan, St Just and Paul with no sign of her! But maybe that is not quite correct! I believe I may actually have found her:- Constance FERGUSON of Church Town age 84 buried 5th December 1849 at St Just Ferguson is not the type of name I would associate with St Just in 1849. In fact (without possible variations) there is not one FERGUSON showing up anywhere in Cornwall in 1841. In 1851 there are 8 of them in Cornwall - 7 at Maker and one at Sheviocke. It is my opinion therefore that the burial of Constance FERGUSON is actually that of Constance FURZE. ;D A couple of supportive facts can be added. In 1841 Constance was '74'. In 1849 she dies and is recorded as '84'. In 1841 she was living at St Just with son Matthew. She cannot be found in 1851.
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 8:42:33 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 25, 2009 8:42:33 GMT -5
My answer - NONE of the above. Although I am still working on it the Census records consistently show that Mary was born at Madron about 1803 or 1804. And I think Elizabeth PERROW (1841 Census) might have been her sister. FreeBMD records the marriage at Redruth R.D. in 1839 of Henry PERROW and Elizabeth TONKIN. Again - I am still investigating but have been unable to locate the Perrow family in 1851. Henry and Elizabeth Perrow had 2 children baptised at St Just - Henry bp. 21st August 1842 and Elizabeth bp. 3rd November 1844 after which the family seems to completely disappear. Right-ho! - I think I have a very possible identification for Mary TONKIN! I have just worked through the Census for the family of Uter and Mary and then worked through the baptisms and burials for the children. One thing I noticed - two of the children had THOMAS as a middle name. That looked like something worth pursuing so I checked for any marriages between TONKIN and THOMAS. Try this one for size:- John TONKIN married Mary THOMAS 22nd March 1803 at Paul Mary bp. 6th November 1803 Sancreed ** Elizabeth Thomas bp. 29th June 1806 Paul Mary bp. 6th November 1809 Sancreed ** John bp. 6th May 1810 Paul Jane bp. 17th October 1813 Paul I realise there are two daughters named Mary in this list but it may not necessarily be a big problem. In the first place there is no burial for a Mary at either Sancreed or Paul between 1803 and 1809. Secondly (and perhaps more importantly) notice that in each case the date of baptism is 6th November!!! And there is a perfectly good explanation for this! I have been using the Sancreed PR Transcripts as available at West Penwith Resources. And the baptisms for the entire year of 1803 have been DUPLICATED as 1809!! If you go to the Sancreed Website via the OPC links this duplication has not occurred. So there was only one Mary. In my opinion Tony you now have the parents and baptism for the wife of Uter Furze and you also have the connection to Henry and Elizabeth Perrow! CT
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 10:12:49 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 25, 2009 10:12:49 GMT -5
Tony - have been reading through all the notes in this thread again and noticed your comment regarding Uter's father John being son of a William Furze. There is a John Furze buried at Paul:- John Furze of Tredavoe age 54 buried 16th February 1820 Paul Uter married at Paul in 1824 and his first four children were born in that Parish so I think it possible John was his father. At age 54 in 1820 John (if this is accurate) would have been born about 1866. John s/o William and Ann Furze bp. 16th May 1766 Ludgvan William Furze, sojourner married Ann Jennings 1st December 1759 Ludgvan William and Ann baptised five children at Ludgvan and these are the only members of the Furze family mentioned in the Ludgvan baptisms. It is quite likely this is part of Uter's family but I would not absolutely guarantee it just yet. John and Constance did name a daughter Ann but there was no son named William - at least not that I have found. But then they baptised two daughters as Elizabeth prior to Ann and later had two daughters named Sarah. Strange thing is that I have not yet found burials for the first Elizabeth or the first Sarah. There is an Ann Furze, pauper, buried at St Buryan in 1792 who could be the Ann Jennings from above but again this is far from certain. I think that is about all I can do for you - at least for now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 12:22:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 12:22:00 GMT -5
I am just following along and trying to put the puzzle together also. My Dad told me his great
great grandfathers name was Uter Williams Furze. Realizing John married Constance Williams, this would fit.
I don't question John's death in 1820, however the John that married Constance was born in
1762, making him 58 not 54. This could be because of the computer systems in the 18th century
weren't as precise as todays :-)
My records also show Uter was married in Paul the year 1824 to Mary. But Mary who? Tonkin or
Upham? I tend to think it was Mary Tonkin from Madron. Their children's names are familiar to
my family. :-)
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