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Furze
May 12, 2011 2:53:07 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on May 12, 2011 2:53:07 GMT -5
Ooops.....I seem to have confused a burial with a baptism. (Easy mistake to make.....Well they both start with a 'B') I must have clicked the wrong 'button' on my data base because I have no note attached to the entry. Looks like William's first wife as you say CT.
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Furze
May 12, 2011 9:23:50 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 12, 2011 9:23:50 GMT -5
I concur! They do both start with 'B'! ;D And if you get the BU before you get the BP then there is another 'B' ...............BUGGER! ;D I think the family is gradually taking good shape Tony so keep digging away and see if we can fill any more gaps. CT
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Furze
May 12, 2011 10:49:15 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on May 12, 2011 10:49:15 GMT -5
Thanks CT....my two biggest brick walls at the moment are John Williams Furze (1863-1897) who emigrated to S.Africa and died in Modderfonatain Johannesburg. He was somehow mixed up in a murder. Was he a witness, or tried for the offence? Can't find out as yet as the files seem to be missing from the S.A. archives.
T'other one is my old friend James Williams who died in the dining Car of a train at Baranowicze Beloruss. (Too much cabbage soup??). Now this fellow may or may not be linked to the Furze crowd via Elizabeth Jane Williams who married William Furze. I think he must be related as the info about his existence came from a Furze source viz...Cousin Jack.
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Furze
Nov 4, 2011 21:27:50 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 21:27:50 GMT -5
We know great uncle John went to SA ... and after he died great aunt Elizabeth went there. I think he had a son, also named John. I also think great uncle William (Bill) ended up there or in Jamaica. Again notes from Dad with his conversations with grandma Furze. I think we have the James Williams situation pretty much seasoned (re: too much cabbage soup) ... I think I will go back to investigating the Peter Furze & Amy Clement connection, it is tough finding information from the early 1700's
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Furze
Nov 6, 2011 9:46:04 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Nov 6, 2011 9:46:04 GMT -5
Correct....John Williams Furze (b1863) emigrated to S.Africa and died 1897 and was somehow implicated in a murder. He had a son John Williams Furze (b 1893) who returned with his mother from S. Africa after James Snr died. In 1898 John Jnr's mother Elizabeth (nee Hosking) marries Richard Leggo and they had two further children. The 1901 census has Elizabeth Furze, John Snr's mother and John Jnr's Grandmother, living in the same hose as a Leggo in St Just.
I'm still chasing 'Uncle Bill', William Henry Furze (b1867), but now appreciate that the James Williams who died from a surfeit of cabbage soup isn't directly related to me via the Williams/Furze line, but comes to me via Angwins.
Off now to eat another pasty.
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Furze
Nov 15, 2011 13:00:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2011 13:00:24 GMT -5
Now you should have respect for my dilemma, since my grandfather was a Furze and grandmother was an Angwin. I get confused all those John's, Elizabeth's & William's. What do you know of our relative Peter Furze (father of William b. 1735) who married Amy Clement about 1711 in St. Bryan? Maybe CT can help! OH, save me a crumb from your pasty
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Furze
Nov 15, 2011 21:06:17 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 15, 2011 21:06:17 GMT -5
Working from FamilySearch only at the moment and there appear to be just two feasible options:- 1. Petter Furse bp. 28th August 1674 Probus son of James 2. Peter Furse bp. 1st July 1688 Creed son of John Of these I would favour the second purely because he was the son of John which was name of the second son of Peter and Amy at St Buryan. However both Probus and Creed are quite some distance from Breage which was the abode of Peter Furse when he married Amy in 1713 and it is more than another 20 miles on to St Buryan. From the time of his marriage Peter seems to have remained at St Buryan ........... but how did he come to be there in the first place? Between 1650 and 1700 the FamilySearch records show a couple of baptisms at Crowan in the 1680s but that is as far West as I can find the Furse family until the arrival of Peter. I can find nothing on Amy Clement who, according to her age when she died, should have been born around 1692. So are the clues a little later? It is most interesting to note that in the 1780s and 1790s there are baptisms for Furze/Furse at the Mevagissey Independent Chapel performed by Andrew Kessell of Penzance. Even more interesting perhaps is that at least some of those baptisms are also recorded in the Penzance Independent Chapel Registers. And amongst those we find baptisms for William and Amey - twin children of Peter and Jane Furze of Mevagissey. I think it would be worth investigating the Mevagissey families. Creed is but a small step from Mevagissey so if there is any hint of a connection between the Mevagissey families and St Buryan then it might suggest that Peter Furse was the one baptised at Creed in 1688. CT
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Furze
Nov 15, 2011 22:20:37 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 15, 2011 22:20:37 GMT -5
Most confusin'! It is not exactly clear whether the children of Peter and Jane Furse were baptised at Penzance or at Mevagissey. And the same can be said for children of Thomas and Elizabeth Furse, William and Mary Furse and others. What is clear is that Andrew Kessell of Penzance performed the Ceremonies. On reading the first page of the Penzance Independent Register it would appear probable that Mr Kessell travelled a Circuit:- A Just List of Children Baptized in the Octagon Tabernacle By Andrew Kefsell &c.: in Penzance and else-whereThe words 'and else-where' were added in a different hand. So perhaps there may be no connection - but because Peter and Jane named a daughter Amy I think it is certainly worth investigating further. CT
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Furze
Nov 15, 2011 22:37:53 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 15, 2011 22:37:53 GMT -5
Further confusion! In the Register for the Independent Chapel (or Octagon Tabernacle) at Penzance it is recorded that William and Amey, twins to Peter and Jane Furse of Mevagissey, were baptised 5th November 1791. But in the Transcript of the Mevagissey Independent Chapel the names are recorded as William and Mary. There is no mention of them being twins and the date is shown as November 6th. The Penzance Register appears to be original and probably recorded by Andrew Kessell himself. On October 4th 1791 he was at Penzance and then November 1st, 5th, 6th and 7th at Mevagissey before proceeding to Marazion where a child was baptised on November 20th. The next entry is not until May 1792 at Penzance. CT
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Furze
Nov 16, 2011 19:16:49 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Nov 16, 2011 19:16:49 GMT -5
Cousin Jack specifically asks if I have any information on Peter Furze who married Amy Clements.
Yes....they were married 17th November 1711 at St Buryan. He was said to have come from Breage. They had at least 4 children....William, Peter (1713); Ann (1715) and John (1717).
There is also a record of a John Furze being buried at Breage 15th Jan 1717....HOWEVER! "Our" John wasn't baptised until 3rd August of the same year.
Therefore I suggest that Peter's father COULD have been John..but the age of John of Breage who died in 1711 is not recorded.
I like CT's suggestions, but he is talking about William and Mary children of Peter and JANE. who are one generation closer to us. Mevagissey is one hell of a way from St Burayn and Breage.
We also have mention of a Peter Furz(s)e in Probus (marriage to Mary Watts), Creed and Veryan. I also remember seeing the Furze name linked with St Austell....
Don't forget Cousin Jack. You maintain that the Furze family came originally from Devon and moved steadily westwards (ending up in Nevadaville and all points westward even into California) So...looks like the Furze are probably literally taking the response "Go West Young Man" to heart.
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Furze
Nov 16, 2011 22:51:49 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 16, 2011 22:51:49 GMT -5
The main concentration of the name appears to be more around mid-Cornwall with many of the in or around the Parishes I have mentioned.
Tony has mentioned a couple more but I think you should keep in mind the geographical locations of these Parishes.
Probus and Creed share a boundary. Between Creed and Mevagissey is only St Ewe. St Ewe and Mevagissey share a border with St Austell.
I was actually talking about William and AMEY which is as they appear in the Penzance Independent Chapel Register. It is in the Mevagissey Chapel Register which appears to at least partially be a copy of Penzance where Amey is substituted for Mary.
My thoughts about the possible link centred around the name AMEY.
We know that the Furse family were very much 'newcomers' to the Lands End area and I think it is fairly obvious that their origins are further East than Helston and even Falmouth.
That Peter was 'of Breage' means that he was resident of that Parish at the time of marriage but I see no indications of long-term residence by the family. I think you may find a couple of references around Camborne as well and they as well as those at Breage need to be looked at.
But the one certain thing is that we are creeping closer and closer to the area around Creed and Mevagissey and it is at Creed that we find a baptism that is the closest I have so far found to be a possibility for Peter of St Buryan.
CT
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Furze
Nov 17, 2011 5:56:56 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Nov 17, 2011 5:56:56 GMT -5
G'Day CT.... ;D Looking at dates and names, it seems to me that "John of Creed" (sounds like a character from the Robin Hood saga) is the father of Peter (bp 1688) 1) Peter is said to be of Breage 2) A John Furze dies in Breage in 1717 3) Peter dies in St Buryan in 1748. If he is the Peter bp 1688 this makes him 60. 4) Peter marries in 1711. If he is bp in1688 this makes him 23. Ages fit...but we have to show that John of Creed and John of Breage are the same person and that the Furze moved from Creed to Breage which is a fair distance. The baptisms in the Independent Chapel Register is however a problem for me. I can't get my head round it! We were talking about Peter and and Amy who were married in 1711. The William and Amey you identify were baptised in 1791, that is 80 years after the marriage, which if our baptism for Peter in 1688 is correct, makes him 103 . Therefore the Peter and Amy I am talking about must be the great grand parents of "the twins". However, the continuation of the name Amy in the family IS significant. You will also find that William, son of Peter and Amy, have Amy (1760) John (1761), John (1766) and William (1763)
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Furze
Nov 17, 2011 7:15:34 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 17, 2011 7:15:34 GMT -5
Tony - the name Amy is not exactly rare but then it is not exactly common either. But it is perhaps noteworthy that I don't recall seeing the name in any of the Furse/Furze families aside from your clan at St Buryan. Peter Furse married Amy Clement and then their son William named a daughter Amy and then we find Peter and Jane Furse at Mevagissey in 1792 naming a daughter Amy. It may be pure coincidence or it may be extremely significant. But I think it is also worth noting that William is the only child of Peter and Amy that we seem to know anything much about. There were also sons Peter and John who, if they survived, do not seem to have remained around St Buryan. CT
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Furze
Nov 17, 2011 21:04:52 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2011 21:04:52 GMT -5
Thank you both for the brain food.
I have had to check my map of Cornwall to locate all these places ... they do seem a bit far from St. Just in Penwith, but they are as grandma used to say, the Furze's came from, "up country".
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Furze
Feb 21, 2013 11:32:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 11:32:45 GMT -5
I think I will go with Peter & Amy (nee Clement) Furze. Their son William married Ann Jennings and their son John married Constance Williams. John & Constance son Uter married Mary Tonkin and their son William Henry married Elizabeth Jane Williams ... these would be tonymitch & my great grandparents. BUT ... what is the birthdate for William? I show Wm Furze b. 1735, m. Ann Jennings 20 July 1760/1 Dec 1759?? ... 25 years old, but born in '35 and his siblings 18-22 years before Is it feasible a family is missing? There was another marriage involved
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