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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 16:30:56 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 25, 2009 16:30:56 GMT -5
I noted that also - but two of the children were baptised at St Just where the father's name has been recorded/transcribed as PETER! Couisn Jack:- Uter's wife was Mary TONKIN as I have explained. Daughter Rebecca was with Henry and Elizabeth PERROW in 1841. Henry and Elizabeth married in 1839 in the Redruth Registration District - at least I am 99% sure it will be them. Henry Perrow married Elizabeth TONKIN. The rest is all explained in my earlier note with Elizabeth being sister to Mary Furze. Rebecca, in my opinion, was staying with her Aunt in 1841. Regarding the birth/baptism of John Furze. You say he was born in 1762 - just what data do you have to support this? Using IGI merely as a 'guide' there is only ONE John Furze born close to 1762 and that is John s/o William Furze at Ludgvan baptised in December 1761. If that is the one you refer to then I think you should stick with John baptised in 1766. Not only does this (for a change ) match the age in the burial entry for John in 1824 - the two Johns are from the same family!! I believe the one baptised in 1761 died young and John of 1766 was named in his place. If you have other information then I would surely like to view it. CT
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Furze
Aug 25, 2009 16:50:28 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 16:50:28 GMT -5
CT
It was either 1: dirty glasses, 2: wandering mind, 3: a senior moment - 1762 was a John Furze
from Devon, I can't read my own notes :-( I try to compile my information from Ancestry.com,
OPC, IGI , FreeCEN and my fathers notes. I too will stick with the John Furze who married
Constance Williams.
Phil
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 2:24:10 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 26, 2009 2:24:10 GMT -5
Okay - it seems we may be agreed on the possibility that John Furze was baptised at Ludgvan s/o William and Ann.
Unfortunately that is still only a possibility and is yet to be proved within reasonable certainty.
What keeps nagging at me is the entries for the Furze family at Sancreed in the earlier part of the 1700's.
I will see if I can track down anything on that one family at Ludgvan and see where it leads.
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 4:04:51 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 26, 2009 4:04:51 GMT -5
Good News! I believe I now have the link to Ludgvan and am as sure as I can be that John Furze was baptised at Ludgvan son of William and Ann. William FURZE, sojourner married Ann JENNINGS 1st December 1759 LUDGVAN AMY bp. (privately) 23rd May 1760 Ludgvan John bp. 6th December 1761 Ludgvan (presumed died young) William bp. 17th April 1763 Ludgvan Francis bp. (privately) 9th May 1765 Ludgvan JOHN bp. (privately) 16th May 1766 Ludgvan Anne bp. 12th August 1770 ST BURYAN There are two possible links involved here. The first involves the name of the first child AMY and points to the possibility that William 'may have been' a son of the following marriage:- Peter FURZE, of Breage married AMY CLEMENT 17th November 1711 ST BURYAN At this point I only have three children for Peter and Amy - Peter (1713), Ann (1715) and John (1717) all baptised at St Buryan. The second link is that William and Ann married at Ludgvan and then baptised five children at Ludgvan. But then their sixth child, daughter Anne, was baptised at ST BURYAN in 1770. Nexst step is to try and find a baptism for William and/or further children to Peter and Amy. BTW Constance d/o John and Constance married Justus ELLIS at St Buryan 23rd March 1811. CT
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 4:19:35 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 26, 2009 4:19:35 GMT -5
Peter Furze buried 4th July 1748 at Sancreed.
Amy Furze, widow age 80, buried 28th March 1772 at St Buryan.
I am also now looking at the possibility that William Furze may have married twice.
Peter Furze son of William and Elizabeth bp. 19th May 1753 St Buryan
Elizabeth Furze buried 15th June 1756 St Buryan
All conjecture at the moment but the links are beginning to form.
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 7:16:18 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 26, 2009 7:16:18 GMT -5
As mentioned in my last there is the possibility that William Furze was married twice with the first wife being Elizabeth. I am unable to find a marriage for William and Elizabeth but there is other circumstantial data. Peter s/o William and Elizabeth Furze bp. 19th May 1753 He possible married Martha Thomas at Ludgvan 26th January 1784. Then there is the following:- Elizabeth d/o THOMAS and Elizabeth Furze bp. 21st December 1749 Paul I can find no marriage for Thomas and Elizabeth either but I suspect this may be an error and that the father is actually William. Elizabeth is possibly the girl who married Samuel Lemon of Germoe at Madron 27th September 1771. The first wife of William may be Elizabeth Furze buried 15th June 1756 St Buryan. Ann Furse pauper buried 21st May 1792 St Buryan Possibly Ann Jennings who married William Furze at Ludgvan in 1759. Other odds and ends that I am not sure about:- Mary Furze buried 20th July 1748 Sancreed (Possibly another daughter of Peter and Amy) Elizabeth Furze of St Just age 7 buried 19th December 1838 Sancreed Peter Furze base son of Margaret Hoskin baptised 5th February 1781 at Madron (Would have to suspect this was a premarital affair for Peter who later married Martha Thomas) And some marriages:- Christopher POLLARD married Elizabeth FURZE 29th March 1818 Sancreed Elizabeth bp. 13th June 1819 Sancreed Christopher bp. 12th August 1821 Paul Joseph Matthew bp. 27th November 1831 Sancreed (of Madron) (She is probably a daughter of John and Constance) Anthony REMFRY married Sally FURZE 16th April 1824 Sancreed (There was a Sarah Furze bp. 6th November 1791 Penzance Independent Chapel - daughter of William and Mary) William DAVEY married Rebecca FURZE 14th December 1816 Paul (I would have thought she was a daughter of John and Constance but can find no baptism) Richard DENNIS married Ann FURSE 11th July 1813 St Buryan John TONKIN married Mary FURZE 29th June 1834 Sancreed I am having some difficulty locating any of these couples in the Census. I must say I have not spent too much time trying but it is going to be a long and difficult job from the looks of things so have decided to leave it for now. After all - it is always possible you guys already know something about them! That's it for now and time for me to move on to something else for a while. CT
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 10:23:36 GMT -5
Post by HeatherC on Aug 26, 2009 10:23:36 GMT -5
Just a little more to add to the FURZE/FURSE story from a family tree on "another place" William DAVEY and Rebecca FURZERebecca died 28 May 1851, Ballarango ( Ballanrong?) Western Port Vic. Buried St Andrews Brighton Vic. This tree has Rebecca's parents as, William FURZE and Elizabeth STEPHENS and has her born abt 1797, Lostwithiel William re-married 25 November 1855 to Susanna Howell (nee Rowney). he died 3 December 1880 buried, Frankston Cemetary VIC. Best regards HeatherC
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 12:31:26 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 26, 2009 12:31:26 GMT -5
Thanks Heather - most useful and interesting. I suspect the place of death will be Balnarring. According to the Victorian Pioneers Index Rebecca was 58 when she died but there are no parents listed!! The Registration No. is 20272 which suggests the death occurred quite late in the year. Her birth would therefore be calculated to be about 1792 or 1793 and more or less fits neatly into the family of John and Constance where I suspect she should belong. Interesting thing is that there are baptisms for two daughters named Elizabeth for John and Constance. (There are also to named Sarah - 1805 and 1809) Elizabeth bp. 30th August 1793 St Buryan Elizabeth bp. 17th June 1798 St Buryan All children of John and Constance were baptised at St Buryan except the last, Matthew, at St Levan in 1814. I must wonder whether that first Elizabeth is actually Rebecca?
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 13:10:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 13:10:02 GMT -5
Much of the confusion comes in the names themselves. In the 1762 a Wm Furze married Mary Walters - there is also a William Furze as having married Mary Upham. In researching both families I found some of their children had the same names! With the same name and birth-dates so close, well a bottle of aspirin stops the headache but the confusion remains. Using the Family Bible and my fathers notes, I must make an educated guess. I have found two children in the same family with the same name and different birth dates - I also found the first child died and the parents named the next male/female with the same name. Another - my g-grandparents had a boy named James William - then the next son was William James. Pardon me but I am going to tear out more hair! s4.images.proboards.com/huh.gifI am inclined to follow this route, for my family: William Furze M: Mary Walters, 20 July 1760 in Crowan John Furze B: 1766 M: Constance Williams, 9 May 1789 in St. Buryan Uter Williams Furze B: 13 July 1803 in St. Buryan (I know this is my g-g grandfather) John & Constance did have a boy named John & William, also a dau. named Elizabeth & possibly Sarah. (I can not source this information other than Dad/s notes.) Addressing Wm B: 11 Jan 1839 son of Peter & Mary. I strongly believe this is Uter (Peter), using soundex methods. After all Uther is Arthur! That is my theory and I am sticking with it ;-)
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 15:06:19 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 26, 2009 15:06:19 GMT -5
I certainly agree regarding William bn 1839. Both he and a sibling, also born St Just, appear in the Census as children of Uter and both appear in the St Just records (or transcription) with the father named as Peter. Lay down misere on that one. However I must disagree with you on the parentage of John Furze who married Constance Williams. From what I have been able to discover John died in 1820 at the age of 54. A John Furze was baptised at Ludgvan in 1766 son of William and Ann Furze. This particular family group is the only one to have appeared at Ludgvan. And this particular family baptised their last child at St Buryan. The earliest Furze I have found in that area (i.e. St Buryan) was Peter Furze who married at St Buryan in 1711 to Amy Clement. (Amy was the name of the first child of William and Ann Furze at Ludgvan.) The only Furze families at St Buryan and Sancreed appear to be all descendants of Peter and Amy. Therefore, in my opinion, William and Mary of Crowan have no bearing on this particular line. CT
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 15:19:13 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 26, 2009 15:19:13 GMT -5
I can't keep up!!!! Haven't looked at the site for a couple of days and now it has taken me at least 2 hrs to transcribe all this info onto my database. Cousin Jack...I said that CT would be able to help...am I right or am I right? ;D Tony M
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Furze
Aug 26, 2009 17:53:43 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 17:53:43 GMT -5
CT,
Now that we have Tony, playing catchup - I show John as having died in 1824, where did you
find the 1820 date? So you believe Wm Furze M: Ann Jennings on 01-Dec 1759 in Ludgvan?
At this point in time I have found the name spelled with a 'S' and a 'Z' - this also has it's twists
in dates and places. Since this is where my Family tree has lost many leaves, I can use the help
and source information. And I agree IGI is a place to start - not to stop!!
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Furze
Aug 27, 2009 2:35:22 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 27, 2009 2:35:22 GMT -5
Yes - I am, based on my research over the last few days, quite sure that John's parents were William Furze and Ann Jennings. John's burial can be found in a transcript of Paul burials located on the West Penwith Resources site. You will also find it on the Cornwall Online Parish Clerks site. In both cases the burial reads:- John Furze of Tredavoe age 54 buried 16th February 1820 Paul As for the variation in the surname with either an 'S' or a 'Z' I would not be overly concerned. After all I have at least 23 variations of my surname in my database with one person being recorded in four or five different documents with a completely different spelling each time. But then there is another one you may not have thought of! Although I think it was more over Mevagissey way I did spot several instances of the following surname a week or two back - PHURZE ;D
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Furze
Nov 1, 2009 22:06:21 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2009 22:06:21 GMT -5
OK, Tony where do we stand? It appears our GX5 Grandparents are Peter & Amy (Clement) then William & Ann (Jennings)? Now to get the dates right or as close as possible! That means GX2 Grandpa Uter was named after his Great Grandfather -Peter-
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Furze
Nov 2, 2009 11:39:48 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Nov 2, 2009 11:39:48 GMT -5
Phil.....I haven't got round to looking up exect dates but......UTER married MARY TONKIN 1824. UTER's parents were JOHN (abt 1766) and CONSTANCE WILLIAMS (abt1768) who were married 1789 St Buryan JOHN is the 'problem child'. CT is 'quite sure' he is the child of WILLIAM FURZE and ANN JENNINGS......could well be, but.......my notes say......he could have been the child of JOHN FURZE (1763) of Oakhampton Devon or JOHN (1762) of Yarnscombe Devon. JOHN of Oakhampton is a fair bet as his mother was REBECCA and this name seems to have become a Furze family name. HOWEVER.....If we stick with JOHN son of WILLIAM and ANN JENNINGS (no dates for these at present) we can go one generation further back to PETER (died 4 July 1748 Sancreed) and AMY CLEMENT (d 28 March 1772 St Buryan) The problem with JOHN being son of WILLIAM is that you say the family originated in Devon.. ...we have two other potential parents for JOHN in Devon and, as I have alredy pointed out, one of these 'parents' is REBECCA and we know that following JOHN we have the introduction of REBECCA as a first name for the girls even though it skips a couple of generations, unless anyone can turn up a couple of Rebeccas higher up the tree. Then again......CT has a Rebecca possibly child of John and Constance which does put a possible Rebecca closer to the Oakhamton John Tony M
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