|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 18, 2009 11:18:25 GMT -5
No problem at all that Lavinia was the daughter of Samuel Harvey and I had considered it a probability - especially given James and Lavinia named a son Samuel Harvey Mitchell. The younger Lavinia might well be one of the burials - but she would be about 19 in 1852 and 20 in 1853. So how could they get age 42 or 56 out of that? Would really have to see the original document to determine the answer to that I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by tonymitch on Jan 18, 2009 12:50:13 GMT -5
Sorry Lesley...I think Lavinia b 1833 married William Henry Prowse on13 Jan 1855. ;D I agree that Samuel Harvey was almost definately the father of Lavinia Harvey and I have her demise as being in 1853 aged 56. The names 'Samuel Harvey' appear with regualrity from this generation onwards as 'given' names in the family. Samuel Harvey MITCHELL (b 1819) had, at the last count 9 children. Two of them, Lavinia and Ellen Jane were baptised on the same day (21/9/1851). I had assumed that they were twins. We have a Lavinia Mitchell being buried 18th May 1852 aged 42. Four days later (22/05/1852) we have the burial of an Ellen Jane Mitchell. Is it possible that Lavinia was aged 2 not 42, and was therfore the elder sister, not a twin, of Ellen Jane, not baptised as a baby but when she was older? (It fits with the chronolgy of the rest of the family, and there is a gap after Ellen Jane of 4 years before the next child and only a max. of two between siblings before her) This would mean that the two youngest children, Lavinia and Ellen Jane died within days of each other. The only problem with this scenario is that the Lavinia aged 42, is said to have come from Boscarne, wheras the Ellen Jane aged 9 mths from St Just. Lavinia (child who may be the source of this 'problem') does not appear after the 1851 census so presumably she has died. Neither does Ellen Jane. In 1861 the remaining family were living in Kelynack. The more I contemplate this, the more certain I am that this scenario is correct. The only problem is Boscarne for one and St Just for the other. Wasn't there a 'flu epidemic in the 1850's? As the Mitchell's had moved to Kelynack by 1861 would it not have been possible for Lavinia to have been taken ill and looked after by grandparents at Boscarne whilst Ellen Jane remained with them at Kelynack (St Just)? Finally....back to the elusive John. A John Mitchell was a juryman in the trial of the murder of Charlotte Dymond by Matthew Weekes in 1844. Looks like our fellow too. There is some correspondence regarding him on www.archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com Unfortunately, although they are writing about John, they are writing 'with their legs crossed' and have him totally confused with James. ;D
|
|
|
Post by londoner on Jan 19, 2009 5:30:04 GMT -5
I missed that marriage for Lavinia, so that rules her out. (and it was William Harris Prowse) Lavinia then died 22 July 1859, age 26. Two days before the baptism of her daughter Rebecca.
And a couple of her sisters also married Prowse men: Ann (?)23 May 1857 to Charles and Rebecca, 18 Oct 1858 to John Weymouth Prowse (although he is called William Weymouth Prowse in the baptisms of their children - John was his father) I think your suggestion about the younger Lavinia and Ellen makes a lot of sense. As CT said we would have to get a sight of the original PR to be more sure.
Have you been to the site on Bodmin where Charlotte Dymond was murdered? pretty bleak and muddy! I went there on the same day as a trip to Bodmin Jail - also grim!
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 19, 2009 7:18:40 GMT -5
Something is not right here. (No S__t Sherlock!) One other thing that crossed my mind was that 'a' Mitchell married someone named Lavinia very soon after that 1851 Census and became a widower almost immediately. I had a very, very quick look the other night but found nothing at St Buryan. Clutching at straws again I know but .... If Lavinia of 1833 married Prowse then it is obvious she cannot have been one of the two burials mentioned. And it is difficult to understand how the age could be so wrong anyway. Is there any other 'Boscarne' person, particulary female, missing after 1851 that might possibly have died around the time of one of these burials? What I am asking is - could it be possible that it was not Lavinia but rather another Mitchell who was buried and that Lavinia was, as we say nowadays, the 'informant'. Running out of ideas so see what you might think of that.
|
|
|
Post by londoner on Jan 19, 2009 7:22:09 GMT -5
Further to that it was Jane who m Charles Prowse (1857 Q2 Penzance 5c,467) not a non-existent Ann.
|
|
|
Post by tonymitch on Jan 19, 2009 8:59:19 GMT -5
Thanks Lesley,
Yes...Willaim HARRIS Prowse (My fault...typo)...Just going to reply, "What Ann, where did you dig her up from" when the screen flashed and your other message came up alonside the reply from Ian. Thanks for the additional stuff, I had no spouse for Jane.
Ian....(1) Lavinia does not appear after the 1851 census (2) She was baptised same day as Ellen (3) The burial of someone from Boscarne ocurred 4 days before Ellen who is reported to have come from St Just. (4) The Mitchells moved to Kelynack before 1851 (my mistake sorry). (5) The only dates for Lavinias I have are:- 1828; 1833; 1851 and 1867. (6) I have dates for the deaths for them all except 1851 (7) Lavinia is reported in the 1851 census aged 1 as living with father Samuel and Mother Mary Ann at Penhale part of Kelynack but no sign of Ellen who was baptised in Sept 1851 along with Lavinia!!!
This means that my theory was most likely correct. Lavinia was baptised as an older child on the same day as her younger sister....they were not twins. The only problems we have now are a) The age at burial is out by 40 years and b) Lavinia shound have been at St Just too and not Boscarne.
Lesley, No I haven't been to Bodmin ever.... it is 21 years since I was last in Cornwall. As a matter of interest...all this problem about Lavinia...she also had an elder sister Barbara and a brother Samuel.....the other day I dug out a letter my fathers cousin had written to me ...both these people and memories of them were mentioned. Imagine, I knew someone who knew someone who knew the 'missing' Lavinia! Makes you think....
|
|
|
Post by londoner on Jan 19, 2009 9:37:32 GMT -5
Having spent a morning delving into the Prowse brothers I can tell you that after Jane died Charles remarried (rather hastily) in Nov 1870 to Mary Mitchell Jackson, the daughter of William Jackson and Margaret Olds (m 1845) and Margaret was the sister of Joanna Olds who m Simon Mitchell. Their parents were Peter Olds and Joanna Polgrean, m 21 Jun 1806 at Madron. Peter (1783)was s/o Peter Olds & Mary Tonkin m 17 Nov 1780 at Sancreed Rebecca Mitchell & William Prowse had about 10 children that I can account for including: Rebecca Mitchell (abt 1862)m Richard Armstrong, Mary Jane abt 1860 John Mitchell abt 1861 Lavinia Harvey abt 1869 (moved to London single in 1901) Elizabeth abt 1872 William Thomas abt 1874 d 3 months old Louisa Weymouth abt 1875 d 7 months old Robert m Margaret Eddy abt 1877 William abt 1878 Henry Weymouth abt 1878 Rebecca (mother) died 1880 age 40 The dates are approx as they seem to have baptised several of them in 1878. ....... Rebecca Prowse buried at Buryan 12 Oct 1860 age 2 was most likely the daughter of William Prowse & Lavinia Mitchell (bap St Buryan 1859 (probably Rebecca Mitchell Prowse registered 1858 at Liskeard) dying not long after her mother - There is a marriage for William Harras Prowse at Liskeard in 1860 which might be him re-marrying but I cant be sure
|
|
|
Post by tonymitch on Jan 19, 2009 11:17:02 GMT -5
Oh My God....things are getting complicated. I need time to assimilate all this. Lesley, you mean William HARRIS Prowse and Lavinia. I stress the 'Harris' bit because I have found another William Prowse, similar age who married Grace Daniel Oats sister of Mary who married James the nephew of Lavinia and Ellen who died. Found the 'mysterious' Ann (who never existed)....she IS Jane who married Charles Prowse....see CT's comments on page 5 of this thread. ;D How do I see it?.......Very confused and confusing.....No time to look into it now as I have to drive 40 miles to pick up daughter from work whose car has broken down followed by a 3hr orchestral rehearsal. After that a stiff whiskey and bed.
|
|
|
Post by londoner on Jan 19, 2009 11:49:32 GMT -5
in the interests of your sanity I have modified my previous post and add this:
William Harris Prowse (m Lavinia) and Charles Harris Prowse (m Jane) were brothers b St Levan (parents John Prowse and Mary Nicholas Harris)
William Weymouth Prowse (AKA John ) who m Rebecca was the son of Robert Prowse and Mary Weymouth, bap St Buryan 17 Aug 1838
Hope the weather isn't too vile for your dirve - we've had hail off and on all day.
|
|
|
Post by tonymitch on Jan 19, 2009 19:08:53 GMT -5
Lesley...Didn't have my whisky....too interested in the convoluted Mitchell/Prowse saga.
I can't understand, "Rebecca Prowse buried at Buryan 12 Oct 1860 aged 2..." do you mean that there was an additional Rebecca born before Rebecca Mitchell Prowse?
The rest is fairly clear although I'll bet a £ to a pint of sheep dip (original stuff, not the whisky) I'll mess it up somewhere. (I'm now having difficulty in navigating my family tree data base)
Lousy hail/sleet/snow drive over the Clwydian hills on forestry tracks. Either that or a 10 mile detour on the main roads. Have to get 'Dad's Taxi' out again tomorrow, the garage was sent the wrong part.
Thanks for all your help
Tony M
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2009 7:19:07 GMT -5
My input to this has been very patchy (to say the least) but I am glad to have been of some help. I really do need to get back to square one with this thread and pursue it properly so that I can converse on equal terms. As you might be well aware I have been pre-occupied with what some seem to infer as 'the surname from Hell!' but this pursuit has, I am happy to say, helped solve a few other problems. My aim is to attempt to catch up with all 'neglected' threads given that a number of them impact on other areas that include my own research and that of others. In the meantime I will try to keep up and offer what I can - but the next month or so might be a bit dicey given current and forecast fire conditions over here. Rest assured that I will do my best.
|
|
|
Post by londoner on Jan 20, 2009 9:49:14 GMT -5
I can't understand, "Rebecca Prowse buried at Buryan 12 Oct 1860 aged 2..." do you mean that there was an additional Rebecca born before Rebecca Mitchell Prowse?
What I think happened was that William Harris Prowse & Lavinia had a daughter - Rebecca Mitchell Prowse (registered 1858 Q1 5c,65 Liskeard), bap. 24-Jul 1859 at Buryan and who was the one buried in 1860.
William Weymouth Prowse and Rebecca had a daughter Rebecca b 1862 According to census - actually Rebecca Mitchell Prowse (Reg Q4 1861 Penzance 5c,340), for whom I have not found a baptism, which is a bit odd as all their other children were bp at Buryan. She looked after her younger siblings when her mother died until her marriage to Richard Armstrong.
There was another one in 1902 - probably a granddaughter but I haven't gone that far down the road.
Hope that makes it a bit clearer
|
|
|
Post by tonymitch on Jan 20, 2009 16:03:34 GMT -5
So...all the surviving daughters of James and Lavinia married into the Prowse family. Lavinia (jnr) and Jane married two brothers William and Charles Harris Prowse, whilst Rebecca married another William who was also known as John Weymouth Prowse.
William Weymouth and Rebecca had a child Rebecca Mitchell Prowse who married Richard Armstrong.
Lavinia and William Harris also had a daughter named Rebecca Mitchell Prowse who died in 1860 aged 2.
Jane and good old Charlie boy as far as I know at present had no children (go on...tell me that they had 6 all named Rebecca Mitchell Prowse)
Am I correct or as usual completely up a gum tree?
By the way, dad's taxi looks like being in service until the end of the week....measured it today....50 miles round trip if I go round the hills but only 30 if I go over, but I can't do that as I don't have a 4x4...roll on spring or a good motor mechanic.
|
|
|
Post by londoner on Jan 21, 2009 14:34:05 GMT -5
Thats right I have found no children for Charles and Jane - they are on their own in 1861 and she died in 1870. the only children appearing in later censuses were born after his marriage to Mary Mitchell Jackson. Hope the driving isn't too arduous. At least up your way they are used to a bit of cold weather, the A30 was closed last night due to ice and Cornwall was cut off form the rest of the world for a while - must have pleased quite a few!
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2009 21:19:03 GMT -5
That's really only a problem for those who think the A30 is the only road in Cornwall!
|
|