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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 19, 2007 13:29:26 GMT -5
I am sure that information will be of help.  I cannot do anything tonight but will try and check further details on this over the next couple of days. (Given I get to have my days off :  Thankyou for this and keep up the good work.  |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 20, 2007 12:00:23 GMT -5
Thanks 'londoner' - with many more queries to check I have decided to mark this one for 'later observation' and hope to return to it later tonight. It is a little complex and I need to get my head around it a bit more. Hope you will excuse the delay but it may be better done this way.  |
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Post by londoner on Sept 25, 2007 11:17:44 GMT -5
found this on A2A FILE [no title] - ref. X108/16 - date: 10 Jan. 1745 [from Scope and Content] (1) Jn. Wallis of Bosanketh, St. Buryan, yeo., to (2) Jane Hoskin of Sancreed, spr., (3) her bro. John H. of Sancreed; (4) Jn. Hoskin of Penzance, silversmith Also: Jane Hosken daughter of John baptised 4 may 1712 Sancreed ties up with the John Wallis will discussed earlier  |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 25, 2007 13:18:46 GMT -5
Hi 'londoner' - have looked at your note but am afraid I have to defer doing much with it until at least tomorrow.  Should I get the chance I will certainly try to do more with it then but it could be a little longer. Don't despair - I am there. Will do my best. |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 30, 2007 17:32:28 GMT -5
HOUSTON - IT WOULD APPEAR WE HAVE A PROBLEM   Much more work to do on this but I did try some searches around St Buryan (mainly) and surrounding Parishes. What I have found makes things much more awkward in regards to the above marriages. It would now appear there must have been to SHORT JOHNS (oops - I do mean John Shorts ;D) lurking about the area at about the same time. The first married Elizabeth EDDY at St Buryan in December 1822. The second married Elizabeth WALLIS at Sennen in 1824. Looking through the St Buryan baptisms I found a couple of interesting entries:- 17th January 1823 John WALLIS s/o John & Elizabeth Short of Trevorrian 6th November 1825 Jane WALLIS d/o John & Elizabeth Short of Tregadgwith The list of children baptised at St Buryan is consistent with there being only one family involved but it was the second Christian name of WALLIS that had me really thinking.  The 1851 Census for St Buryan shows a John Short, age 51, at Trevorrian (bn. St Buryan). His wife then is ELIZA, age 34, born Sancreed. A check of IGI shows a John Short bp. St Buryan 8th April 1800 s/o John and Mary Short. Checking St Buryan Marriages I found this LITTLE GEM John SHORT m. Mary WALISH 29th December 1798  BUT there is more:- This John Short would appear to be the man who married Elizabeth EDDY at St Buryan 10th December 1822. But there is another anomaly from St Buryan Burials:- John Short of Church Town 14 May 1822 aged 1 Furthermore (without listing all children for now) the last child I found was:- John s/o John & Elizabeth Short of Trevorian bp. 17th October 1741 BUT THEN (from St Buryan Burials) John Short of Trevorian 2 Jan 1842 an Infant Elizabeth Short of Trevorian 18 Jan 1842 aged 39 BUT THERE IS MORE from St Buryan 9 Nov 1844 by Banns John Short full age widower Farmer of St. Buryan (Father: John Short, Farmer) Eliza Eddy full age spinster of St. Buryan [mark] (Father: William Eddy, Labourer) Witnesses: William Eddy, Matthew Eddy NOTE - the widowed John Short (previously married to Elizabeth EDDY) has now married Eliza EDDY. Will have to continue this later on as there is much to consider here and I have to go through these records again to update my database to get a clearer view of things. Any further input would be most welcome and, as I say, I will try to address this again later. (Which I hope to mean later tonight. : |
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Post by londoner on Oct 1, 2007 6:06:33 GMT -5
John Short Snr buried St Buryan 28 Aug 1841
Mary (Wallish) Short buried St Buryan 27 May 1841 - age 87.
This could (allowing for her to be older than she admitted) make her the daughter of John & Jane baptised 1751 at St Buryan and mentioned in will quoted 17th July by Zenobia.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 1, 2007 8:42:24 GMT -5
Good thinking '99' - will try to look at that after I have reviewed and updated last night's work. I need to find the other John Short - in fact I need to find the 'pair of Shorts' and try to determine where they belong. Will try and clear up the St Buryan area which should leave me with a clearer picture of things - I hope. Let's see what happens and I will post results as applicable. |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 1, 2007 13:01:01 GMT -5
Question - How come every bloke named John Short that I need to look at in this scenario seems to have married a girl named ELIZABETH or ELIZA. The burial of this little fella is a good seven months before the marriage of the first John Short we have been dealing with and probably about two years before the second - so just who was he. A 'possible' answer:- John Short s/o John Tregarthen Short and ELIZABETH was baptised at ST IVES 30th March 1821 (IGI). Without further investigation there can be no guarantee of this - but it does seem to be the 'most likely' scenario at the moment given I have not yet been able to find any other baptism for this child. Ooooops! - have just done some checking through Census and other records and find that the above John Short was still alive and well (and married) in 1861. John and his wife (Mary A) were still living at St Ives in 1881 but I have, so far, found no evidence of any children. Although both born at St Ives I have not yet found a marriage for them so do not know the maiden name of Mary. In 1881 John's brother Charles (or at least his family) were living at Stoke Damerel, Devon. Also in the 1881 Census was brother Thomas with wife Mary and son Martin now living in Plymouth, Devon, where Thomas was then Harbour Master. It appears that there were no members of the Short family of St Ives living in Cornwall in 1881 and I have not found any of the families of Sennen, St Buryan area still there at that time. But it would appear that the family of St Ives may have been, if anything, only very loosely connected with that of Sennen and St Buryan. Next question is - were the two John Shorts married in the 1820's in our area of discussion related in some way. Will try to look more into this but there is one thing nagging at my mind - the name 'Charles'. Charles appears to have been a name common to the St Ives family of 'Short' and then appears in the St Buryan family. Could there be a connection with this little lot. Time to close this note and take a look at a couple of other things before retiring for the night. |
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Post by londoner on Oct 2, 2007 3:16:11 GMT -5
John Tregerthen Short is unlikely to be connected - there is lots about him in West Penwith Resources - details from his diary and of his burial in Barnoon. We may have to look further afield I fear! |
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Post by londoner on Oct 2, 2007 6:58:17 GMT -5
From Wikipedia:
St. Ives born artist.
Richard Short was born in 1841 in St. Ives, Cornwall. By 1881 he had moved to Cardiff where he was worked as a Ship Broker Agent and lived at Terwarnel House, Newport Road (1881 Census of Wales). However by 1901 he had established himself as an artist, specialised in maritime scenes. From at least 1991 he resided at 22 The Walk, Cardiff (1891 and 1901 Census of Wales). His works include scenes of Penarth Cardiff, the Bosphoros and Corsica. He died on 16th December 1916.
Family
Short was married to Charlotte Martin Noall (born 1840 in Minehead, Somerset, England). They had seven children, Charlotte A. (b.1869), Edith M. (b.1871), Lillian E. (b.1872), Richard N. (b.1875), Olive V. (b.18777), Norman V. (1879) and Herbert W. (b.1881).
His father was Richard Short (b. 21.01.1819, in St. Ives Cornwall, d. 05.06.1855) who was a master mariner. His mother was Grace Ninnes (b. 12.09.1824, in St. Ives Cornwall, d. 13.04.1891). His siblings were Grace Ninnes (b. 1845), John (b. 1847, d. 1849), John Tregerthen (b. 1849) and Elizabeth Curnow (b. 1852).
I think this rules out John Tregerthen but I have found two marriages which might have produced our John:
Charles Short to Grace Millet 1790 Madron
Joseph Short to Mary Roberts 1798 Madron
BUT it was the Buryan John who named his child Mary Elizabeth Roberts Short!!
Going round in circles again
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Post by londoner on Oct 2, 2007 7:03:04 GMT -5
And:
a burial at Paul 1827 John Short of Newlyn age 32,
Sennen Tithe 1838 - John Short a cottage at Treeve
St Levan marriage John Short Hall (Illegitimate ) to Eliz. Ann Harvey
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 2, 2007 12:55:23 GMT -5
Londoner - going round in circles indeed. This latest information is very good - thankyou. My PM will outline some of my thoughts and workings on this subject which, for now, I decided were probably going to clutter things on the Board. I may have to re-think that and post some of them given this latest. Your mention of Charles Short in Madron also has me thinking so I will try and take another look at things tomorrow. |
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Post by Sarch on Apr 12, 2009 2:59:03 GMT -5
Hi Zenobia Eeee! I discovered another John Wallis leaving a will in 1742. I downloaded a copy. It was the correct one! A few notes: John named his wife Catherine and eldest son John. He named his four daughters, Honour, Mary, Elizabeth and Joan and indicated they were all under age 21. He mentioned his 'first marraige settlement' and although the wording was a bit difficult, it appeared that the 4 daughters all belonged to his first marriage. ) You don't mention the name of the first wife. I have the wife of John's first marriage as Mary Wallish m 06 Jul 1717 Madron, daughter of Noy Wallish and Mary Ley? I don't seem to connect John Wallish and Mary Wallish as cousins as I only go as far back as Noy Wallish's parents John Wallish and Sarah Noe Sarch |
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Post by londoner on Apr 12, 2009 6:15:01 GMT -5
If you look at Kathie's tree below: wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=zella&id=I14071you will see the will details. There is a difficulty with the various John Wallis(h)s as people have assigned different wives to the same one - I have recently seen the son of this John as the one b 1721 who married Margaret Williams and died in Sennen at the age of 93! rather than the one who m Jane Hosken. Which is why I still have a problem with my Robert. At least two of the children attributed to Robert & Mary Hutchens are mentioned in the will I have and there are several for whom I have no baptism records. |
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Post by Sarch on Apr 12, 2009 9:02:19 GMT -5
Hi Londoner
heheheheh so John Wallis two wives were Constance Williams and Catherine Williams nee Casaly!
Are Johns parents Nicholas and Elizabeth as I have another John married to Catherine Casaly John son of John and Constance Williams
So this means that I am now on the lookout for the husband of Mary Wallish daughter of Noy Wallish. ;D
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