Wallish/Gwenap/Woolcock connections

[Cornish Terrier]

Great to see that you have found your way around the Board.

Once again - I will try and look into this for you tonight and do my best to answer this latest question as well as try to work on your slightly later query.

[londoner]

Thanks for your response. One of my problems has been that there was a marriage in St Just Robert Wallis to Mary Humphreys, (I cant immediately remember the date) trying to work out which children belong to them and which to Robert Wallis & Mary Hutchens is the difficulty. I need to spend some time sorting out the reams of notes I have and making some sense of them.

[Cornish Terrier]

I think my main reason was that there was only one marriage for a Robert Wallis and Mary which seemed anything like possible at the time and in the area.

After looking at some more stuff tonight I think that is the main reason I had only the three later children listed in my database. (i.e. those baptised at Sennen)

Robert Wallis, husbandman, and Mary Hutchens were married at St Buryan 30th Jun 1781.

BUT another check of Phillimore & Taylor shows why I was hesitant in adding other children:-

Robert Wallis, husbandman, and Mary Trevaile were married at St Buryan 23rd December 1776

The question is - are the two Robert Wallis grooms one and the same man.

If he is then it would seem his first wife was not buried at St Buryan.

BUT here is the BIG problem -

St Buryan Baptisms (IGI)

Robert s/o Robert Wallis 1st February 1784
Robert s/o Robert Wallis 31st December 1784



Cannot find a burial at St Buryan for a Mary or a Robert which might help.

It therefore appears that we have TWO families of Robert and Mary Wallis in the area at the same time.

This is going to take quite some sorting out and it does not appear that it will be easy.

To make things worse the IGI shows four men named Robert Wallis who were baptised at a time where they could have married either Mary Trevaile or Mary Hutchens. (And all are at St Buryan)

I think we need more information than what we currently have to try and sort this lot out.

But I will try and think on it some more and see what I can come up with for you.

[londoner]

The headstone at Sennen makes the dates for Robert 1754 - 1835 and Mary 1756 - 1829 with daughters Catherine Tonkin 1790-1834 and Elizabeth Short 1799 - 1832, next to them is Martha Botheras 1798 - 1851. these dates fit for the Mary Hutchens marriage. I haven't found Elizabeth's baptism and there appears to be a second Elizabeth & John Short still around in 1841 - not just a re-marriage as I found one to Eliza (? Eddy can't remember). The two 1784 baptisms would be possible if the first child had been baptised because he was dying and the second was already on the way!!

[Cornish Terrier]

This would appear to be getting a little awkward!

St Buryan Marriages

10 Dec 1822 by Banns and consent of friends
John Short of this Parish Labourer
Elizabeth Eddy of this Parish Spinster [mark]
Witnesses: John Eddy, William Eddy

Sennen Marriages

17 Jan 1824
John Short
Elisabeth Wallis

Sennen Burials

10 Oct 1829 WALLIS Mary 73 yrs. Treeve
17 Dec 1832 SHORT Elizabeth 32 yrs. Sennen
12 Jul 1834 TONKIN Catherine 44 yrs. Trevescan
6 Jun 1851 BOTHERAS Martha 53 yrs. Sennen


I cannot find a burial for Robert Wallis at Sennen in 1835.

Sennen Baptisms

1798
Martha d. of Robert & Mary Wallis Aug. 12th


I already had other children listed for Robert and Mary but, until I have got my head around the possibility of two families of Robert and Mary Wallis lurking around, I will leave things as are so that I don't confuse matters too much.

As regards the two baptisms for Robert Wallis in 1784 - I have just checked burials for Sennen, St Levan, St Buryan and Sancreed and find no record of a burial for a young Robert Wallis.

Although I agree with the possibilities of the scenario you mentioned, we are still left with the fact that there may well have been these two Roberts still living at the same time.

Will take a look at a few other things now and have a rest from this while I let my head clear. (If that is possible. )

Would appreciate some further feedback and then let us see what we can do.

[londoner]

The headstone says he died 2nd July 1836. I dont know where he was actually buried if not there. I presume you have The Trewella descendants through Martha's daughter Caroline?
sorry I haven't got to grips with smileys yet - too excited to doother than quick replies

[Cornish Terrier]

G'day londoner.

With smileys - just run your cursor over each different one to see what it means, pick the one you want and then click on it to insert it into your message.

NOW - how unobservant of me to miss the fact that we have, in part, been dealing with part of my own family.

Yes, I do have much of the Trewhella descendancy from Caroline but I just noticed a few details that I am missing.

With stuff I have gathered over the last twelve months or so there is a fair possibility I may be able to fill in some of those gaps.

Will check the rest of the Board and then maybe get back to this and get some updates done.

Keep in touch - and keep excited - this is all fun. ;D

[Cornish Terrier]

Is it not fun when searching the UK Census (or any record for that matter) for a name like BOTHERAS only to find it indexed as BOTHNAS.

This was the 1841 Census - yet I found the family also indexed as BOTHNAS in 1851.

Have now found more on the Wilson side of the family.

Sarah Ann, daughter of John Trewhella and Caroline (nee Botheras) was married to Richard Edmund Wilson, light-keeper.

Their first known child (Flora Trewhella Wilson) was baptised at Sennen.
After that there were four children born (according to the Census) at St Ann's Head, Pembrokeshire, Wales.
The last three were born back at Sennen.

Right now I need to shut down this system and restart as there is something odd going on that I am unsure of.

Hopefully be back online very soon and will do a little more work before heading off to bed. (Fingers Crossed).

[londoner]

And in 1901 Eva Wilson was staying with Caroline & John at Sennen. Lots of Lighthouse keepers in the family. Robert Wallis's daughter Honor (my 3xgt who married Jonathan Humphrys (Harvey)) had two daughters who married them - Elizabeth to Richard Trahair and Eliza to John Jarvis and several grandsons who became lighthousemen.
I put brackets round the Harvey because he dropped the name after the first 3 or so children were born. He was christened "base child of Mary Harvey" but I suspect his father was a Humphrys and possibly he took over tenancy from him. I'm unlikely ever to be able to prove this though!

[londoner]

PS why did we let so many Cornishmen migrate to Oz and SA now you beat us at Rugby and worse still Cricket!!!!!!

[Cornish Terrier]

But, apart from a few minor gliches, we have been beating you lot at Cricket for years. ;D

Have just found the baptismal record for your Jonathan Humphreys at Sennen 29th April 1794.

First question - have you determined anything further about Mary Harvey and her parents?

Second - did she ultimately marry or did she remain a single mother?

Third - do you have any details of her death/burial?

Now, given the WILSON side of things has a TREWHELLA connection for me I would appreciate some further details regarding the marriages of the children.

Would also like to know just when and where Honor Walls married Jonathan Humphreys Harvey.

With some extra information I 'might' be able to track down a little more detail for you.

The name of 'Jonathan Humphreys' just 'might' have been used by Mary Harvey to identify the father - even though it appears he was never named as the 'reputed father'.

Hmmmm - Although we cannot guarantee where the father of Mary's child may have been born/baptised I have decided to have a glance through Sennen Baptismal records given Humphr(e)ys was a not uncommon name in that Parish.

The first is a little early perhaps but I post what I find for your perusal:-

Jonathan son of Robert Humphrey 27th Nov 1748

Anne d. of Johnathan & Anne Humphrey Bap. Sep 30th

The only other Johnathan Humprey was baptised in 1793 to William and his wife so he can obviously be discounted.

And it is obvious that 'the culprit' may have been from another Parish.

However, perhaps a little more research into the family of Johnathan and Anne might be worthwhile.

This fellow would have been only about 46 at the time Mary Harvey's son was baptised.

It is possible he was widowed and that Mary Harvey worked as a servant for him ........

This scenario is not really that uncommon so it is a starting point for you to think about.

Let me know your own thoughts on this and I will attempt to pursue it a little further.

And the other thing to consider is 'Bastardy Bonds'.

[londoner]

Jonathan and Honor married at St Levan in 1815. I have no information about Mary Harvey except that there were a lot of Harveys in St Levan and a few that would have been of childbearing age at the time of Jonathan's birth. The only possible clue is the existence of a Mary Brabyn/Bravin in 1841 at Brew who was buried at Sennen the same year. I haven't been able to find a marriage - maybe your resources are greater. My favourite theory is that she was the younger sister of Anne (wife of the Jonathan you mentioned) who only bore one living child that I have been able to identify.
It is a fascinating puzzle.

[londoner]

PS please tell me more about Bastardy Bonds.
pps I dont have any post 1901 info about the Wilsons, sorry.

[Cornish Terrier]

'Ello Londoner

Thanks again for what information you have and I will look at some more of this (again) asap.

As for access to information - some of this stuff is available online but it becomes a matter of finding it. (And I have been able to do that in a few cases.)

Some of my other resources come from various sources of which many are 'old days' letters and so on.

Whilst having old contacts from 'letter', 'email', 'telephone' conversations I have been to a few Countries and met a few people who have helped me along the way.

In other cases i have (in later times) searched for information on the Internet and found sites such as the South African British Immigrants Site which I have mentioned in other notes tonight.

It has been a matter of, I guess, gathering contacts and remembering them - but trying to ensure that 'help goes both ways'.

BASTARDY BONDS - a brief description (top of the head recollection at the moment) would be a legal proceeding implicating a male person as being the reputed father of the child of an unmarried female.

In some Baptismal records it is recorded that the child was (e.g. John s/o Mary ____ - reputed father Joe Bloggs)

I will leave the remainder of this explanation to someone more knowledgable about the subject. (At least until I have had a chance to check my books.)

Appreciate anyone jumping in and giving a hand here as I need to find the right book.

[londoner]

reverting to earlier discussion about Honor Gwennap: I just found in A2A reference to "Honor wife of Thos Tonken lately widow of Thos Gwennap" (Ref X108/20 29 Sept 1757) hope this may be of use.