Post by Cornish Terrier on May 7, 2007 13:52:29 GMT -5
Hi Julia, Yes - I am indeed interested and will do what I can to help you. Much of my Trewhella family were from Towednack and Zennor in the very early days and there were connections with both thomas and Stevens families (amongst others). I did a fair bit of work several years ago on the Parishes in order to try and sort out some of the relationships so will have at least something here that should be of help. I know that I have transcripts of a number of early Thomas Wills from the area and quite a number of Stevens Wills. A problem I found was later towards the end of the 1700's when a lot of information was not 'readily' available to me so I got a bit stuck. However, I reckon it should be possible to start piecing some of those problems together.
In your next posting please give me a little more detail of the family connections. That will give me a bit more to work from and will also give me something to work 'back to' from anything else I might find. ;D
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 20, 2007 12:58:47 GMT -5
Trencrom (firstly welcome) - but don't hesitate to feed me some information here.
I need to apologise to Julia as I got side-tracked with many things so, as with a couple of other threads, I had not yet worked my way back.
However, if you are interested in the families of Thomas etc. at Zennor (or may possibly have further information that may help) then please give me a bit of an outline of what you know and then what you are searching for.
Zennor and Towednack are very hard Parishes to work with because of the loss of a lot of records but there is sufficient information available for us to work from to form a 'reasonable' scenario.
Please, both of you, add further comments and information here and I will work on it with you.
cornish terrier, John Osborne and Jane Thomas is my line. Jane was the daughter oif Thomas Thomas, christened December 1629, son of George Thomas and Cheston Davy. Thomas Thomas died in 1704 leaving a widow Jane whose surname I do not know, but who he was probably married to during the Commonwealth period.
Looking at the names of Thomas and Jane's children (per his will and Zennor BTs) the only names that do not appear in the names of George and Cheston's children, and who may therefore be reasonably preumed I think to have come from Jane's side of the family, are "Jane", "Nicholas" and "Grace". The question therefore arises which local families carried all three names in the right time frame - ie early to mid 1600s? Berrimans certainly had Nicholas, but I am not aware that they had the other two. Christophers in late 1600s had Nicholas and Grace, but that is a generation or to late and hence may be coincidental.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 21, 2007 12:39:34 GMT -5
Hi Trencrom - there are a number of interesting things in your last and I am certainly intrigued.
My first question is - where did you find the information about George Thomas being married to Cheston Davy. And also - where did you find the information about Thomas Thomas being christened in December 1629.
I had, from Wills and other information, worked out some of the rest but had never found that particular bit of information.
I do not dispute it because Thomas and Jane had a daughter Cheston who married John Holla at Zennor in 1695. (Fits with naming patterns of the day).
I will try and keep this short now as I need to eat and relax a little. However, your query about the origins of the children's names is well worth looking at.
Jane - most likely named after her mother. Grace - possible reflection to Jane's parentage? (Mother?) Nicholas - this is the interesting one and could even be another 'pointer' to things we do not yet know for certain.
'Nicholas' may be an indication of Jane's maiden name given that 'Nicholas/Nichols/Nicholls' was a name not uncommon in the area back then.
I will leave you with those thoughts and await further information as I really do need to pursue food, watch the last of my James Bond movies (Die Another Day) and then get some sleep.
Will be looking forward to further as it brings in the families of Holla (Hollow?) and Renoden also.
Cornish terrier, The Zennot BTs give George's wife's given name, and the will of her father Richard Davy identified who her family was.
Will double check on the month (I am in the internet cafe so writing this from memory) but Thomas Thomas definitely christened in 1629 -- I have seen the relevant page from the Zennor register which describes how "omas (sic -- the edge of the page is missing ) Thomas son of George Thomas was baptised " etc. under the heading "Anno Dom 1629". Thomas Thomas is also mentioned in his grandfather Davy's will which as I recall was dated the same year. (Maybe December was the date of the will instead? I will have to check) Zennor BTs give Jane's christening as 1674 and one of her siblings some 10 years earlier. I therefore think Jane was one of the youngest , children of Thomas and Jane, perhaps even their youngest child.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 22, 2007 12:32:06 GMT -5
Hi again Trencrom - seems you have me at a distinct disadvantage.
Of the Zennor BT's I have been able to get a hold of none include the dates and details you are quoting.
And the Richard Davy Will is also something I do not have.
I do have information from the Will of a Richard Davy which was written in 1644 at Zennor and I have noted that there were two men of the name who signed the 1641 Protestation Return at Zennor.
I am extremely interesting in what Zennor BT's and other PR information you may have and also in a transcript of that Richard Davy Will.
Over the years I have spent some time trying to piece together the families of Zennor and Towednack from whatever information I could gather so that I may find further clues about my own direct ancestors.
What you have stated here could prove a mini goldmine for me.
If you wish, please post data via Private Message.
FOR JULIA - that 1801 marriage is one that is still not 'highlighted' in my copy of Phillimore & Taylor' which means that I have not, as yet determined the origins of either party and nor have I determined who their children might have been.
Would like to continue this three-way conversation and see what we can come up with as it may well have implications on other things I have worked on over the years.
Please, both of you, get back to me with what you can and I will work on it.
Cornish terrier, there are two sets of surviving BTs, The earlier ones are at Exeter but only go up to about 1636 or thereabouts. Even then not all years are covered, and some pages have edges missing etc.
For the will of Richard Davy the elder of Zennor, yeoman, see Kathie's probate abstracts, part 12
Have you seen Jean Nankervis' paper "Zennor and the Hearth tax" in "West Penwith in the Time of Charles II" by the Penwith local history group, published about 8-10 years ago. Well worth getting a copy if you have not already seen it.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 14, 2007 17:42:33 GMT -5
A further thought regarding the two Richard Davy men (1629 and 1644/5).
It is possible that the younger man was not mentioned in the 1629 Will because there 'was no requirement'. That is - the younger man was already 'looked after' by previous dealings such as land succession that were already adequately documented. In this case only those not already 'catered for' might be mentioned.
I have seen similar before but it is no guarantee that I am correct by any means.
Will try and look more into this after work tonight.
Cornish terrier, I have a copy of the 1629 will for Richard Davy and, as you say, there is no mention of a son Richard therein.
I too have been wondering if there is a connection betwen the two Richard Davys but am uncertain as to exactly what it was. At this stage I would be inclined to think "nephew" is the most likely one.
I think the Richard Davy of the 1613 rate is probably the testator of 1629, who had both a maidservant and a manservant named amongst a reasonably lengthy list of beneficiaries, which indicates to me that he would have been reaonably affluent for that area.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 16, 2007 12:48:27 GMT -5
Trencrom, I tend to agree with you. Especially given that the later Richard named a sister, Grace DOUBT, who also does not appear in the elder man's Will. (Remembering that the elder Richard named Cheston as his 'only daughter'.)
But Richard the elder named two sisters in his Will so one might expect that, if the younger Richard was a nephew, Richard would have made some mention of brothers and/or their children.
The copy of the Will of the younger Richard is quite clear so I might have to try and track down the husband of his sister Grace. There is no mention of that surname at Zennor in 1641 so I will have to do some searching.
If that information can be found then it may give some further clues about the younger Richard.
This fellow wrote his Will in 1644/5 and had two named sons who would appear to have been the Thomas and Martin Davy who signed the Protestation Return. He also had two named daughters who would appear to have been unmarried at the time. And then there is the 'inference' of two married daughters so it appears that this Richard must have married no later than about 1620 and was therefore probably born sometime before 1600.
This would put his age as very similar to that of the elder Richard's son-in-law George THOMAS - which is interesting.
Could this be another case of a son who has been already 'looked after'.
I have seen other cases where a son has not been mentioned in his father's Will so it is 'still possible' that we are dealing with father and son.