Paskis Lanion circa 1600

[lipkatatar]

Hi Pollyq!

We covered this before. Check out my post from Oct 11 2016.

Best regards, Jim.

[lipkatatar]

The relationship between Richard Lanyen and Michael Ruthfos.

I have just found several 15th Century links to a Thomas Ruthfos, the earliest from 1457 when he is acting as an attorney for the Arundells. He is of the right generation to have been the father or uncle of Michael Ruthfos. Perhaps Michael and Isabel were brother and sister, if not cousins.

Reference: AR/20/20
Description: Appointment of attorneys to receive seisin

Remfrey Arundell, son of Remfrey Arundell knight = (1)

Appointment by (1) of Robert Udy, clerk, Richard Kendale, John Michell and Thomas Ruthfos as attorneys to receive seisin of the manors of Lanherne and Seynt Columbe, with all appurtenances and tenements in Ruthfos, Gauergen, Myngen, Penfos, Helwyn, Hengolan Trenans, Trewarvena, Wyndesore, Nanstornan, Polgruen, Bodruthyn, Porth, Eluhans, Pentire, Trefudres, Lanvyan, Enysmaugan, Tregeustek iuxta Penros, Tregeuwen, Trevelgy, Carnanton, Trevorrak, Helle en Parke and Seynt Columbe, which (1) claims by gift made to Remfrey Arundell knight, his father, and his heirs of body [= AR/20/19]. Signature of (1).

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[pollyq]

Hi Lipkatatar, yes I remember that you kindly looked into these wills and I have the details of the wills of Richard Lanyon Gent of St Ervan, proved 1636, and of John Lanyon Gent of St Merryn, proved 1644, and also the administration of John Lanyon Esq of St Merryn died 1605.

However, there should be another John Lanyon in the Oswyn Murray collection. This John Lanyon is of Madron, will proved 1634 and not designated a Gent or Esquire in the will index, but his burial record does record him as Gent.

Did you by any chance take note of this will abstract during your search of the collection?

[zibetha]

Hi, Polly and Lipkatatar--

If you don't have what you need and can send me a reference to lookup, I can go to my local FHC early next week.

Zib

[lipkatatar]

Hi Zibetha!

Many thanks for the offer. I visited the Glasgow LDS centre about 4 years ago and got the microfilm rolls that I had asked for, although there was less information on them than I had hoped for. In Glasgow they do not have copies of the microfilms. You have to order online the specific microfilms you want to see, and then you have to wait a few weeks for them to be delivered to your local LDS centre. The cost for 2 microfilms was £15. IF Pollyq knows what she is looking for then she may have to let the LDS know in advance exactly which microfilms rolls are required and what LDS centre she wants them sent to.

[zibetha]

Things keep changing/progressing. A young cousin of mine has told me everything is going digital and film copies are being elinated. I have some films stored locally and will have to visit to know if they are still kept there as the place was closed for 9 months plus due a remodel. I do have a few questions/records that I can only view at a center. I look forward to going back there and will gladly look for information on our Lanyon family.

Zib

[pollyq]

Hi Zibetha, thank you very much for offering to look for me.

The record collection I'm referring to, Oswyn Murray Collection of Wills, abt. 1600-1800, looks like it has been digitised and is available to view through the Family History Centers.

Here is a link to the collection on FamilySearch.org,

tinyurl.com/v3gpx2h

The entry I'm looking for is;

First name: John
Last name: Lanyon
Sex: Male
Probate year: 1634
Place: Madron
Original place: Madron
County: Cornwall
Country: England
Source: MUR1 (Oswyn Murray Collection of Wills)
Document type: Will
Document form: Abstract or Extract
Document references: Vol. 20

And is contained in Vol.20, Lackington-Lynne (FS Film No. 916905)


I'll post what I've found on the GENUKI website on this collection and will include the link where there is more information on this collection.

"Two particular problems confront researchers who are searching for a Murray will abstract. Firstly, the thirty nine volumes of Murray abstracts contain no page numbers at all, so the only clear reference we can provide is the number of the volume in which the abstract is to be found. Secondly, because spelling was very flexible in earlier times, Murray very sensibly grouped together the wills and admons of people with similar sounding surnames. Thus testators and intestates are not presented in exact alphabetical order in his volumes.

However, in our index the testators and intestates are in strict alphabetical order, so variant spellings of a surname are often going to appear in our index some distance away from the more 'standard' spelling. Some lateral thinking re spelling may be required. Further lateral thinking may then be required to pinpoint the location of a particular abstract in one of his volumes. If the item is included in our index, then it genuinely is in one of the volumes - somewhere!"

www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/DevonWillsProject/MUR1


If you can find the extract of this will, then I would be very grateful. But if the job proves to be too time consuming, or you can't access the collection, then no problem, I'll look into getting a copy from the Devon archives.

[zibetha]

You have helped me with I thought to be a dead end my ggf John Mitchell - I will see what I can do. Game on!

[lipkatatar]

Hi Pollyq.
I do not recall searching for the 1634 will of John Lanyon of Madron, but I did scan through the other documents on the microfilms to see if there was anything else of interest. Of course I may have missed this one.

Just a few comments on earlier Lanyon related posts. Unfortunately, C1 chancery files above 800 are not available as AALT images, and Star Chamber files, even though they are indexed on the AALT site, are not available as images on the AALT site.

Regarding Lanyons at St Merryn- We know from the transactions between Richard Lanyen and John Cowling in 1556-58, and the later 1569 dispute between the Lanyons and the Arundells, that the Lanyons had, at least from the mid 16th Century, held property at St Merryn. Richard's great-grandson, Richard, son of Francis, held land both at St Ervan and St Merryn (Treveglos is definitely in St Merryn), and his heirs appear to have contnued the connection with St Merryn. It is possible that further research will cast some light on how and when the Lanyons obtained property in St Merryn.

After the death of Philippa Myliton at Breage in 1578, John Lanyon married again- his second wife dying at Breage in 1592. In 1583, this John, the eldest son of Richard Lanyon, Esq., agreed to his father giving the manor of Tregyminnion to his younger brother William. He is clearly a different John Lanyon, Esq. from the one who married Margaret Trewynniard and who died in relative poverty in St Merryn in 1605, leaving his wife with £140 of debt. However, the fact that this second John Lanyon Esq, and his wife Margaret were also living in St Merryn would suggest he is part of the Lanyon family line descending through William-Richard-John-Francis-Richard.

[trencrom]

Mar 8, 2020 11:12:50 GMT -5 lipkatatar said:

Hi Zibetha!

Many thanks for the offer. I visited the Glasgow LDS centre about 4 years ago and got the microfilm rolls that I had asked for, although there was less information on them than I had hoped for. In Glasgow they do not have copies of the microfilms. You have to order online the specific microfilms you want to see, and then you have to wait a few weeks for them to be delivered to your local LDS centre. The cost for 2 microfilms was £15. IF Pollyq knows what she is looking for then she may have to let the LDS know in advance exactly which microfilms rolls are required and what LDS centre she wants them sent to.

Zibetha and Pollyq,

The situation with LDS microfilms changed about 3 years ago. Film orders are no longer being accepted and films are not being delivered to a local LDS centre. Instead, the LDS have been digitalising the majority of their film collection. This process is still in course. Many films are already available for viewing (as a series of images) on the Family Search website, but you need to register with and then log into the website in order to sight anything. There is no fee for this registration. Much of what is available will be visible on any computer to you once you are logged in. Some film items though will only be viewable on a computer at an LDS centre or an affiliated library, or else at only an LDS centre. When you do a search for the records you are interested in, it will show you what is available for viewing and where.

Trencrom

[trencrom]

Feb 25, 2020 6:45:30 GMT -5 lipkatatar said:

I have been in contact with Vance Mead, who is involved in transcribing and indexing the record images on the AALT website, to ask about the apparent lack of "feet of fines" records. I quote from his response below.


"Common Recovery was used for property transactions starting in the mid-15th century. I don't think it was ever as usual as the fine.

I did a count of the two actions recorded in Common Pleas. They increased dramatically in the second half of the 16th century. Probably because of more land changing hands after the Dissolution of the Monasteries.

                concord         recovery
1430           62
1440           67
1500           31                     49
1530           39                     49
1554           38                     25
1563           355                  118
1571           736                  156

I should add that these are for one term in each year mentioned. So there would be something like 4 times this many in a year."

Yes, I saw your inquiry, and Vance's response to it, on the SGM newsgroup a couple of weeks ago.

Interesting to learn that the numbers increased so much in the second half of the 1500s. I suspect that Vance is right about it being a consequence of the Dissolution, as so much land that had been locked up, shall we say, in the hands of the Church up to that point in time now came into private hands and could be subsequently traded or otherwise dealt with accordingly. 

Feb 25, 2020 6:45:30 GMT -5 lipkatatar said:

The "concord" records mentioned above will be the final documents in "feet of fines" type transactions,  and the figures for both concord and recovery records will cover the whole of England.  I checked the records for the three month term in 1571 mentioned by Vance and discovered around 50 such records for Cornwall. This figure would equate to 200 such records per year for Cornwall and 20,000 in a century. This would suggest that there might be tens of thousands of Cornish property transactions yet to be discovered among the un-indexed Common Pleas files.

Thanks for this. I am not surprised, as I always thought it strange that we had published fines for the medieval period but little or nothing similar for later periods, e.g. the Tudor period. Unfortunately for us genealogists, it seems to be not uncommon for the earlier records to be published first (IPMs are a case in point) and we don't yet have the later ones which would be more useful to those of us who are not already back to the 1400s.

Feb 25, 2020 6:45:30 GMT -5 lipkatatar said:

I understand that the National Archive is now trying out character recognition software to help with the transcription of medieval records. This should greatly speed up the indexing of the Common Pleas files.

I wonder how the software will go with analyzing handwritten documents??? I certainly hope it will speed the process up -- this would benefit not only family historians but also local historians and other students of the period.

Trencrom

[dangereuse]

Hi everybody,

This is further information concerning John Lanyon of Sancreed, will dated 11 April 1664. (married to Mary Ellis grand-daughter of Paskow Ellis).
The Latin sentence for this has been mentioned in previous posts as it is on the National Archives web-site. I came across the will incorrectly indexed as John Lamon and this has now been corrected by the NA following my query.
There is a transcription already on the wills website for Sancreed under the name John Lamon. In the will John describes himself as a gentleman of Bottreth in the parish of St Crett.
This would appear to prove that he is the son of the William Lanyon of Sancreed whose will was made on the 24th Dec 1624 because the first item listed in William's inventory is the tenement of Botregh a chattell lease worth £30, which was left to his son John in the will.
This therefore makes John Lanyon of Sancreed the brother of the Paskis Lanyon who received livestock and £10 in William's will.

The other interesting item in John's will is his reference to four young mares which I have at "Tregenminion" as this may confirm William (the father of John) as the fourth son of Richard Lanyon, due to the Tregamynyon Estate being given to William in the 31st year of Elizabeth's reign (1588).
The dates seem to bear this out.

Kind Regards

David

[lipkatatar]

Re: Cornish feet of fines records.

When I previously mentioned that I had found 50 Cornish records in a three month period in 1571 I should have made it clear that these were 50 Common Pleas (CP40 on AALT) records for Cornwall, of which some would have been concerned with property transactions.

[lipkatatar]

Possible clue to the identity of the Thomas Lanyen named in the dispute between John Lanyen and James Jakrobyn.

There is a Common Pleas record from 1516-17 dealing with a dispute where William Lanehyne, Gent, of Truru; Thomas Lanehyne, yeoman of St Synner; Thomas Trehuren, gent., of Sancreed; James Chynals, gent., of Madren; Bartian Halter of St Synner, husbandman are accused of trespass at Bossangueth (Bossaneth near Falmouth) by a Thomas Ralko.

The dispute between John, son of Thomas Lanyen, deceased, and James Jakrobyn can be dated to 1515 at the latest, however, the 1516/17 document appears to mention the 5th year of the king, which would place the dispute with Ralko in the years 1513-1514. I am not sure if this document is a later description of the dispute with Thomas Ralko or the actual response of William, etc. to Ralko's complaint: (the document is in Latin).

AALT: cp40/1013
aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1013/aCP40no1013fronts/IMG_0310.htm
aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no1013/aCP40no1013fronts/IMG_0311.htm

[lipkatatar]

Hi Dangereuse!

Many thanks for your discovery of the 1664 will of John Lanyon, and for bringing this to our attention.

I am a bit confused by your arguments for this John being the brother of the Paskis named in the 1624 will of William Lanyon. I was not aware that there was a copy of the inventory for this William's estate. Can you provide some further details of this inventory?

Best regards,
Jim.