John Glasson and Lavinia Thomas

[Deleted]

CT

The John Glasson married in 1865 now appears certainly to have married Mary Jane and the Census shows he was most likely the son of John Glasson and Frances Willoughby. (A dead giveaway that his widowed mother is with him in the 1871 Census and her name is 'Fanny'!)

My records would show this as correct as well.

The interesting thing here though is who was John, the husband of Fanny? I have looked at all my relevant Johns and I tentatively suggest that he was the son of Charles Glasson and Joanna Williams and baptised in 1809 at Camborne.

And to make it really interesting, his brother Charles is the only vacant Charles that I have to be the father of the family at Gas Street in Camborne in the 1841 census.

Their sister Priscilla married John Craze in 1820, I believe, and it is a likely place for the derivation of the christian name Caroline in this family.

I have had John/Fanny Willoughby and Charles/Anna Maria Clarke out on a limb for quite some time and I am ready to put them into this family so I would be interested in any thoughts.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Londoner - what I meant was that it seems the Selectors are having a very difficult time finding eleven Englishmen to make up their cricket side.

And I still don't know the result of the Fifth Test!

Lannanta - I thought the husband of Frances Willoughby was already sorted.

My last update on that family was back in September and I show that John was baptised 21st May 1809 at Redruth son of Charles Glasson and Grace (nee CLEMMOE).

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Lannanta - I thought the husband of Frances Willoughby was already sorted

Maybe I did not pay attention at the time - I have that John married to a Hannah and they were living at Gwennap without children. But there were two Johns, sons of Charles, both baptised in 1809. One was the son of Charles and Joanna and the other Charles and Grace.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

I thought you and I must have agreed on that one which would have been why I made the link in my database.

We were probably just sorting the Grace Clemmoe connection at the time.

Charles with wife Joanna currently have 'no beginning' and 'no end' in my database - the whole family seemed to disappear.

In the 1851 Census John (with wife Hannah) is age 48 although in 1841 he and Hannah are both recorded with age 30.
I have not yet been able to find them in 1861 so and also cannot find a marriage for them so I am reluctant to connect John to any family at the moment.

And Charles with wife Anna Maria Clarke also disappear after 1841 so it is a little difficult to pin them down also.

CT

[sue]

Have just seen Lavinia Glasson transcribed as Jannie Habben 1861

Being a sometimes ponderous person, following the thread as far as it concerned Lavinia, I was looking at the 1881 census for the household of Elizabeth Glasson widow of Charles, and noticed that in addition to single mine girl daughter Lavinia Glasson 40 + Gson W Jno Glasson 16 there is a 7 year old Gdaughter: Lillie Glasson.

I can see a Freebmd birth Dec Q 1873 Redruth of a Lillie Glasson.

I can't see a death or marriage for her..... (although she could perhaps have emigrated as a young underage single person, doesn't seem likely).

By 1891 Lavinia Glasson is now hd of household ar Bosweal; resident with her are a young couple: Joseph Trevena 19 + wife Lillie 18, lodgers. You might think Lillie would be Lavinia's now married daughter....

Marriage was St Day 1/11/1890 Joseph Trevena to Lillie Collins per OPC, mother Mary Collins single woman father unnamed. The witnesses were Alfred Hancock & Lavinia Glasson.

There is a Freebmd Mar 1874 birth Redruth district for a Lillie Collins, the Q immediately following the Lillie Glasson birth; but I can't seem to find Lillie Collins in the 1881 census......

It's entirely possible that I'm missing something/several somethings..... but is it possible that the Elizabeth Glasson widow/Lavinia Glasson single daughter household of 1881 was bringing up a 7 year old Lillie that wasn't Lavinia Glasson's child? Who was maybe Lavinia Collins? Or is Lavinia Trevena-nee-Collins as lodger in 1891 merely a coincidence?

I see burials for Lavinia Glasson of Busveal 55 St Day 26/8/1894. Lily Trevena also still of Busveal 28 St Day 29/11/1896, OPC.

And further suggestion of a strong link between this Lily Trevena (married name) and Lavinia Glasson in that there seem to have been 2 daughters to the Trevena marriage: Elizabeth Ellen Trevena Dec Q 1891 & Lilian Lavinia Trevena Sep Q 1894, per Freebmd. (The girls are with aunt Harriet Trevena in later censuses, so that is of no help.)

If there was misdescription of Lillie, I wonder if there was also misdescription of William John Glasson born c 1865? This thinking has been developing as I type... Could it be that the children, Lillie & William John respectively, were actually told untruths about their parentage, so made marriage certificate declarations in good faith??

After all if William John Glasson's mother was a Lavinia Thomas - and I can't see any really suitable spare Lavinia Thomas candidates after the marrying off of Lavinia Thomas to James Bennetts with a 1st child of an age that clashes with William John Glasson's birth – his birth registration should have strictly been as William John Thomas. Yet both William John Thomas Redruth birth registrations, Mar 1865 & Dec 1865, are accounted for per 1871 census as in wedlock to Edward & Frances Thomas of Camborne & James & Mary Ann Thomas of Redruth respectively.

Whilst on the other hand there is a spare William John Glasson birth registration of the 2 per Freebmd Dec Q 1864 & June Q 1865 after one is allocated to being child of Amelia Glasson @ Phillack, available to allocate to Lavinia Glasson of Bosveal.

I just find it a bit rum that there seems to be something untoward about the Lillie in the Glasson of Bosveal household, in addition to the William John Glasson one-time-of-that-household marriage declaration.

Sue

[Deleted]

CT

In the 1851 Census John (with wife Hannah) is age 48 although in 1841 he and Hannah are both recorded with age 30.
I have not yet been able to find them in 1861 so and also cannot find a marriage for them so I am reluctant to connect John to any family at the moment.

Yes 30, 48, 62 (1871) and 70 (1881) so likely 48 was an aberration.

Not too much science in my selection process other that Charles and Grace were married in Gwennap and their children were born there. No children for John and Hannah that I am aware of but living in Gwennap apparently all his life.

Charles and Joanna were centred around Camborne on the other hand.

I too cannot find any of the Charles and Anna Maria family in 1851 so they must surely have moved away.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - I think I will leave my database 'as is' regarding the two Charles Glasson families for the time being given there is insufficient evidence to make any connections that might be considered accurate.
If we could track down the family of Charles and Anna Maria it might be a good start but having tried before I just don't know where to start.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Have just seen Lavinia Glasson transcribed as Jannie Habben 1861

For a change it wasn't Ancestry! ;D

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - how does this bloke stack up as the possible son of Charles and Elizabeth?

1861 Census
James Burnett, Gwennap
John GLASSON, head, mar, 27, copper miner, Gwennap
Mary do., wife, mar, 30, Gwennap
Elizth do., daur, unm, 12, Gwennap
John do., son, 7, Gwennap
James do., 4, Gwennap

In the 1851 and 1861 Census I can find only one John Glasson who had been born at Gwennap around 1833 or 1834.

And in 1851 he was with parents Charles and Elizabeth.

By 1871 this John is deceased and his widow Mary is living at Carharrack with children John (16), James (14), Mary (9), Ann (5) and Emily (3) who were all born at Gwennap.

The son of Charles and Elizabeth (bp. 25th December 1833 St Day) would seem to be the only one that I can find who is even a close match to the above.

And I would reckon that might just eliminate him as a candidate for the father of William John.

But you are the Glasson man so it is possible you may have information that I don't so I am prepared to stand corrected if required.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

By 1891 Lavinia Glasson is now hd of household ar Bosweal; resident with her are a young couple: Joseph Trevena 19 + wife Lillie 18, lodgers. You might think Lillie would be Lavinia's now married daughter....

Would you believe ........... Lavinia's NIECE?

[Cornish Terrier]

Sue - liking the way you are thinkng I decided to pursue the Mary Collins thing a little further and see if I could find any answers.
I did find a Mary of a nice age to have been the mother of Lillie but there was nothing else I could find that would indicate any sort of link.

But then I got to thinking a little more and I think now that I might have found the answer.

Lannanta - I am sure you will enjoy this and I think it might help solve a problem for you.

Two things in Sue's post suggested the good possibility of some sort of family connection between Lavinia Glasson and Lillie Collins/Glasson.

1. - the 1881 Census with young grandaughter Lillie GLASSON in the household with the widowed Elizabeth and her daughter Lavinia
2. - the now married Lillie and her husband lodging with Lavinia

So there was a little tapping on my forehead to see if there were any 'little grey cells' at home. ;D

The question that was asked - Was there a marriage involing someone named COLLINS to someone named GLASSON?

14th May 1866 St Day - by Banns
Henry COLLINS, 24, bachelor, miner of St Day (son of Henry Collins, miner) married
MARY GLASSON, 20, spinster of St Day (daughter of CHARLES GLASSON, miner)
Witnesses - Matthew Blackler, John Yeoman

Aha! thinks I, the little grey cells they have done their work!

But it wasn't quite right.
The Mary Glasson I was hoping it would be was only 16. ...................... OR WAS SHE!!!

Mary daughter of Charles and Elizabeth Glasson of Busveal was baptised 19th May 1850 at St Day.
But a check of the 1851 Census shows that Mary was actually born about 1845 or 1846!

And a check of FreeBMD shows that this is most likely Mary Thomas Glasson born March Qtr 1846 Redruth R.D.
This is the only Mary Glasson registered in the Redruth R.D. between 1839 and 1848 and 'Thomas' was the maiden name of Charles Glasson's wife.

So - we now have 'a link' for the name Collins to Lavinia Glasson and her mother in the 1881 Census.

Next port of call is the 1871 Census where at Nicholls Row, Gwennap we find:-

Blanche COLLINS, head, widow, 58, supported by son, Stithians
Mary do., daughter-in-law, mar, 24, engineer's wife, Gwennap
Henry do., grandson, 4, scholar, Gwennap

(The 1861 Census shows Henry Collins age 20 (born Stithians) living at Gwennap with his widowed mother Blanch and two younger siblings.)

So far I have been unable to find any further trace of Henry Collins (father or son) or Mary.

Henry Collins cannot be found in the 1871 Census so I would be thinking he was abroad somewhere.
There is no apparent death record for either Mary or her son between 1871 and 1881 so it is possible they joined the elder Henry.

But I suspect that while Henry was away Mary might just have had a little fling on the side.

I reckon Lillie Collins/Glasson was a result of some possible hanky panky on the part of Mary and she is thus a niece to Lavinia.

It seems to be the only scenario that would fit all the facts - especially that she was a grandaughter to Elizabeth and her name varied from Glasson to Collins.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Lannanta - how does this bloke stack up as the possible son of Charles and Elizabeth?

1861 Census
James Burnett, Gwennap
John GLASSON, head, mar, 27, copper miner, Gwennap
Mary do., wife, mar, 30, Gwennap
Elizth do., daur, unm, 12, Gwennap
John do., son, 7, Gwennap
James do., 4, Gwennap

Yep would be the most likely scenario. I have him recorded in my database as the son of Charl;es and Elizabeth but I seem to have got him lumped in with a man from St Erth which didn't allow him to stand out such as he does now. Subsequently I never carried him on with Mary and family which I will do now.

I would agree with that.

Lannanta

[Deleted]

CT

I reckon Lillie Collins/Glasson was a result of some possible hanky panky on the part of Mary and she is thus a niece to Lavinia.

Hard to fault the logic and therefore I agree it is the most likely option. Well done again.

Lannanta

[sue]

Like the explanation for Lillie, CT. Scenario works well. I too had found only a few married Mary Collins of child-bearing age in the locality, but I had just shrugged my shoulders at that point!

I have learnt from this that a set of people in a household all of the same surname - Gmother, unmarried daughter, Gson/daughter - should not make me jump to the conclusion that the child "belongs" to the unmarried daughter.

Just one question here: I have not previously come across a double birth registration.

I can see a Freebmd birth Dec Q 1873 Redruth of a Lillie Glasson.

I can't see a death or marriage for her.....

+

There is a Freebmd Mar 1874 birth Redruth district for a Lillie Collins, the Q immediately following the Lillie Glasson birth; but I can't seem to find Lillie Collins in the 1881 census......

Would you see these as part of the cover-up operation, a hasty registration of Lillie to the Glasson household, then a change of heart (& a disguise when visiting the BMD registrar, or the real mother went instead of the step-mother to be) & a correct registration by the name of Collins a few weeks later?

Or is there another family to be found that I have missed, for the other Lillie birth?

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Sue - to be honest, I never actually thought to look at the two registrations. Or rather, I did think of it initially but then completely forgot about it once I got to work on the theory about the Collins/Glasson marriage.

I really can't answer your question until I have had a good look at the scenario.

But I can offer you something of interest to look at.

In FreeBMD take a look at the Birth Registrations for William Martin Trewhella.

Using that exact spelling you should get six results of which only two are of interest here.

September Qtr 1857
Trewhella William Martin St Germans 5c 43
Trewhella William Martin Penzance 5c 290

With a surname like Trewhella you might think it strange that with only six occurences of the name William Martin Trewhella in more than 60 years there would be two in the same Quarter of the same year!

And you would be right!

Both registrations are for the exact same person!

And I have seen both Birth Certificates to prove it.

Apparently the father, William Trewhella, fell out of favour with the 'outlaws' and so while he was registering the birth at Ludgvan William Clatworthy was registering the birth at Saltash. ;D

CT