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Post by judylynn on Apr 5, 2009 17:18:03 GMT -5
I was going to post that last bit in the wee hours of this morning, but decided to wait so I could review it and catch mistakes my bleary eyes might've missed. So I took a quick look at the census for Frank TREWELLA ... uh, based on your last posting about PA Frank vs. Conn. Frank, I think you have reason to be totally confused! IGI records a marriage in 1906 to Nellie HENDERSON yet Frank turns up in 1910 with a wife named Clara to whom he has been married three years. I have mentioned this before but was she perhaps Clara Ellen or something similar? He married Rosetta J BAZLEY sometime between 1910 and 1920 in OH and Rosetta is named as his wife on his Death Certificate. There is one problem in that I have so far not been able to find Frank in the 1900 Census. Now Frank TREWHELLA from CT is another matter. In 1900 he has a wife named Lizzie and they were married about 1892 according to that Census. In 1910 and 1920 his wife is again recorded as Lizzie whilst in 1930 her name becomes Elizabeth. (Given it is the same wife!) The question with this Frank being the man who married Lizzie SUTTON in PA is just why would they marry there when both were born in CT and that is where they lived for, it appears, the remainder of their lives? I have done a search for Lizzie SUTTON in CT (the wife of Frank was born 1871 according to Census records) but could find none. However there is a Lizzie BUTTON born CT in 1871 and it is not without possibility that this could be the same girl. Returning to Frank of PA - he was 30 when he married Nellie HENDERSON so there is no doubt he could have had an earlier wife. But I would really like to track him down in 1900 to see what his status was. I can't find Frank in 1900 either. However, in the hard-to-read 1910 Cuyahoga Co., OH, the Frank listed ... A) is black! The "Race" column clearly has a "B" -- among a page that is mostly "W," so it doesn't seem to be a casual error. B) was born in PA, with parents b. England -- which of course does fit with Matt Sr.'s son. C) is 25! Since he was born 1875, it should say 35. D) has a wife whose name I can't decipher -- might be Clara, might not. Age is 25, born in Michigan as are her parents. It's hard to tell, but seems the Race column for her looks like an "L"! We know "M" meant mixed or mulatto (and it looks like there were a few Ms on the page; hard to distinguish between M and W), but I believe 1910 was too early to use L for Latina. Maybe it's I for Indian, as in Native American? (Zenobia, help -- is this an Ohio thing?) E) is a bartender in a saloon -- my only thought was if this IS Frank from PA, then he may have acquired that skill from his family's hotel/restaurant business. Please, somebody else tell us how you read it. But wait, there's more :-) I found A Frank in 1920, Cuyahoga Co., Cleveland 10th Ward: TREWELLA, Frank age 45.....b. PA/parents Eng......night watchman .................Jessie age 46.....b. England/parents Eng.....not naturalized It looked like "Jessie" on first glance, anyway -- see the lower stem of the J atop the upper part of the last letter of the surname below? I was looking for it to be "Lizzie" (SUTTON), but the census-taker makes his Zs different for other names. I suppose it could be "Bessie" -- still odd that an Elizabeth would go by two nicknames, but not impossible. I doubt, either way, that it could be a mis-interpretation of Rosie (for Rosetta). So, if it really is "Jessie," what now? Even if it's "Bessie," we need to reconcile her being b. England vs. known wife Lizzie (SUTTON) being b. PA. (I *had* some PA census records of who I thought was Lizzie's family; I'll hold off on posting them since I may be completely off base now! We really need some primary records of the Franks and their potential wives. An obit of Rosetta might be a good place to start. Oh, almost forgot! While you're viewing that 1920 census, look 11 lines below Frank, and you'll see another TREWELLA. The first name is illegible to me. But it's an 8-year-old female, born in Kansas/parents in U.S.; listed as the adopted daughter of Stanley KILROY His wife Mary or May must've been married previously, since there's a stepson listed. Stanley & wife were born in Kansas, too. I haven't checked any of the Conn. census records (one loony bin resident on the board is enough), so I may be missing some important connection, but ... Discussion, anybody? Or should we just ignore them and hope they go away? ~JudyLynn
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Post by judylynn on Apr 5, 2009 17:29:51 GMT -5
Now let’s think about Matthew Sr. & Eliza Jane’s eldest daughter, Cora/Carrie/Caroline TREWELLA. [Last night's musings:] Since she’s not listed with the family in Shenandoah in 1890, there’s no evidence that she ever came to PA. She was last known to be in the 1880 census in New Jersey. She was already about 17 then -- did she marry there? Where was the RUSSELL gent from? Where’d they reside? Where was she by the time she married Valentine? Without having more clues, this is a needle-in-a-haystack problem. Her second husband’s name is the easiest to search for … in fact, try searching for his given name – the surname could range from SHRIVER to SCHREIBER and a mix of any letters in between No likely Valentines in the Schuylkill Co. marriage database, BTW. [Today's musings:] I started to list a few possible Valentines, when I found this gem! 1910, PA, Northumberland Co., Mount Carmel 1st Ward (322 2nd St.) SHREINER, Valentine…55…m. 9 years? Carrie…...45…m. 9 yrs?…5 of 5 kids living Frank……20… Henry……18… William……19… Katharine……15 RUSSELL, Matthew……18…step-son (gee, wonder who he was named for?) Everybody’s listed as being b. in PA -- including Carrie!?! All the males are coal miners. The big question is: Since Matthew was a product of Carrie’s first marriage to a RUSSELL, then he is one of her 5 kids -- but who are the other four? Can’t be the four listed here as SHREINERs -- they’re born in the timeframe when Carrie would’ve been Mrs. RUSSELL. These four must be Val’s from his own prior marriage. Now we see he was born circa 1855, we can narrow our search for him. And unless Carrie meant she was now mother & stepmother of five, I think we can presume Matthew was the youngest of her first lot -- or who’d be taking care of the other teens? (Actually, I’m leaning that way now; can’t immediately find any RUSSELL siblings of Matthew in the census; unless they were girls and need to be found under their married surnames.) Ooops! Spoke too soon again … 1920: OH, Cuyahoga Co., Cleveland (gee, who else lived there?), 24th Ward RUSSELL, Matthew……27…b. PA/parents…foreman at auto works Ruth ……25…b. OH/parents Walter……4y10m (as of 4 Jan 1920)…b. OH/parents PA-OH O’ROARKE, Grover……28…bro-in-law…b. OH/parents…repairman at auto works All that plus Ruth’s maiden name, too! A fairly successful weekend, eh? And I'm not done yet ~JudyLynn
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Post by judylynn on Apr 5, 2009 17:59:30 GMT -5
Last Pennsylvanian for today! 1890 Schuylkill County Census Directory: Shenandoah 1st Ward Lewes, Thomas H, 28, miner. 126 Apple Alley. Mary, Frank R.L. 3, Mary A. (Wonder what's the meaning of "RL"? If it said LR, that's been known to mean LeRoy.) 1900: PA, Schuylkill Co., Shenandoah 4th Ward LEWIS, Thomas, 37? b. Jul 1862…m. 14 yrs …b. PA/parents Wales…coal miner ……Mary, 34 b. Aug 1865… 5 of 5 kids living…b. VT/parents Eng ……Frank, 13 b. Mar 1887…laborer at mine ……Annie, 11 b. Apr 1889 ……Ellie, 9 b. Oct 1890 ……Frances M., 9 b. Jan 1892 ……Martha, 3 b. Mar 1897 (all kids b. PA) 1910: PA, Schuylkill Co., Shenandoah 4th Ward LEWIS, Thomas H., 48…m. 24 yrs …b. PA/parents Wales…laborer at coal mine ……Mary, 44… 6 of 9 kids living…b. VT/parents Eng ……Frank R., 23…miner ……Martha J., 13 ……Sarah E., 8 So, in addition to Sarah, three other kids were born since the 1900 census. And three children died (maybe the new babies, maybe some of the older ones). 1920: PA, Schuylkill Co., Pottsville 6th 4th Ward (boarding with an older KRAMER man) LEWIS, Thomas, 59… single …b. PA/parents Wales…laborer at mine “Single” rather than widowed, but this seems to be the right guy. If so, wife Mary must’ve died since 1910. I’ll check. I found in 1880 a Thomas who would fit, including a mum named Martha like his daughter. But Mum was listed as being born in England instead of Wales, so I'm hesitant. As for the other TREWELLA siblings, Joseph and Charles, they'll have to wait for another week. If I can find a will for Matthew Sr. next week, or even an obit for one of the other kids, it may tell us where to look. Until then, I have enough on my to-do list! Goodnight, moon. ~JL
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 5, 2009 18:37:04 GMT -5
JL - you have been extremely busy! I cannot do justice to all your hard work right now so will go get a few hours sleep and work on it all properly tonight. Just a couple of comments for now. Firstly - the 'left-fielder' got me! but it might surprise you to hear that I am not overly concerned as the one nagging thing with CT Frank was the fact that both he and his wife were born CT - so why go get married in PA and then return to CT. The other thing is that, no matter how hard I try, I can still NOT FIND Frank in the 1920 Census!!! I have even just tried searching for (names blank) resident Ohio, Cuyahoga Co., Cleveland, born PA 1875. Not a sign of him! Another one I will have another go at tonight. And based on your description of those 1920 details where it appears to show 'Jessie' as his wife - no need to fret! He married Rosetta J BAZLEY someime between 1910 and 1920 - so that J 'could' be Jessie. Also - I have a copy of Frank's Death Certificate from recent web searches so most of the required details are there including the fact that his wife was Rosetta. Will read (and read again) tonight and then respond properly. You are a Gem. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 6, 2009 2:22:01 GMT -5
That statement on my part turns out to be in error! Looking at my database again I note that I have the marriage as 'about 1893' so perhaps even Robert had not found the actual event. The reason I took another look was that in the information you have just supplied it states that Camilla PAYNE had been previously married - information certainly not included in the information from Robert. So I now need to see if I can find that previous marriage. Okay - time for me to settle in and read through all of this information carefully before making adjustments and compiling further queries arising from it. There will be more to follow. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 6, 2009 4:04:25 GMT -5
Re: 1920 Census and Frank TREWELLA I have tried until I am blue in the face and there seems to be no way known that I can find the reference you are alluding to! As with an earlier post - I have even got down to looking for Frank in OH, Cuyahoga, born PA 1875 and found nothing. So I read your note again (as per above) and thought I might go the 'easy way' and look up Stanley KILROY. Typed in Stanley KILROY as my only search terms for the 1920 Census and ...................... NOT ONE STANLEY KILROY in the whole of the USA! So I tried just 'Stanley' living OH, Cuyahoga and born KS. The only 'match' is this one:- View Record Name Parent or spouse names Home in 1920 (City,County,State) Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Race Relation View Image View Record Stanley Buired Nellie Cleveland Ward 9, Cuyahoga, Ohio abt 1893 Russia White Head I also tried looking for someone with the surname KILROY, born KS but living Cuyahoga, OH NUTTIN'! I just cannot figure it out! Guess I will just have to keep trying. And I will have more on Frank in a later note. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 6, 2009 12:28:16 GMT -5
JudyLynn - this search for Frank TREWELLA in the 1920 Census is doing my head right in! As per PMs I have tried every way I can think of and still cannot find him. I finally thought of one more way to search - and that was to look for a TREWELLA born in Kansas about 1912. That failed and, in fact, I could find no TREWELLA of any spelling in that Census who had been born in Kansas! I will await your feedback on that one. But I have had a little success with Carrie RUSSEL and have found her in 1900. She was then widowed and living at Mt Carmel, Northumberland Co. She stated she was the mother of five children with four still living - those being:- Joseph born December 1882 New Jersey (damned hard to decipher : Frank born August 1886 Pennsylvania William born May 1890 Pennsylvania Matthew born August 1892 Pennsylvania So Carrie was married sometime between the 1880 Census when she was 16 and December of 1882. And there is a possibility we may now know the name of her husband even though he died prior to the 1900 Census. The answer may just lie in the 1880 Census for New Jersey! We have the family of Matthew and Eliza TREWELLA with all children except one recorded as the last family on the page. On the next page we find Elizabeth A who was the subject of some discussion a few days ago. Now have a look at that second page of the household:- (surname) Elizabeth An (etc. etc.) WENNEN(?) Richard, white, male, 21, boarder, Eng, Eng, Eng RUSSEL William, white, male, 26 (over 36), boarder, PA, PA, PA SPARNEL Mary, white, female, 77, grandmother I reckon William RUSSEL might well have been her then future husband! ;D And whilst on the subject of the 1880 Census with Matthew and his family. If you take another look at that one there is a very interesting omission amongst the children! There is NO Helen/Ellen! I believe I only have those two names recorded because they are included in the notes written by Robert TREWELLA's mother. And I just noticed something else. I am looking right at those particular notes and the two names (i.e. Helen and Ellen) are written right at the bottom - and in a totally different hand! In comparison to the rest of the writing this appears to be that of a much younger person. Possibly someone who has heard the name/s in the family somewhere and has possibly misassociated them with the family of Matthew and Eliza? And now, although I am beginning to hate him, I have some observations to make regardig Frank. I am curious about your comments regarding the 1910 Census which you state is 'hard-to-read'. I downloaded a copy of that and have had no problems reading it! In fact the copy I have is extremely easy to read and even more so when magnified. And this leads, in a way, back to my problems with the 1920 Census. Are we dealing with multiple sets of images for each Census? This might help explain why you have difficulty with the 1910 image whereas I find it very clear. And it also raises the question - IF there are multiple sets of images then is it possible that for whatever reason at least one set has ended up incomplete??!!! That might explain why I cannot find the entry your are talking about. And I know this is possible because the 1861 Census for Cornwall is missing the entire population of Bodmin Gaol. And I know that because I found a William QUICK of interest in the FreeCEN version of that Census yet when I tried to find the entry on Ancestry it was not to be found. And I tried searching for several other prisoners who appeared on the same page in FreeCEN. Anyhow - having looked at the 1910 Census again I must say that Frank is definately recorded as being BLACK and for some reason I had not picked up on that point in the past. His age is most definitely recorded as 35. His wife is clearly CLARA on my copy of the image. The character you are looking at that you say is in the 'Race' colum is actually the 'F' in the 'gender' column In the 'Race' column she, like Frank, is clearly recorded as 'B'. Her age is 27 - again quite clear. All other information appears to be as you showed it. What I cannot understand is WHY they are recorded as 'black' when all information in that Census indicates that Frank was the son of Matthew and Eliza. There was (and probably still is) a family of TREWOLLA that was black. That is the family of Mack TREWALLA who appear in the 1900 Census for Mississippi and it may be that they are a result of slaves/workers from one of the plantations owned by the TREWOLLA family. I am still trying to work through the information and your notes so it may be several hours yet before I have a proper response formulated. Right now I am almost falling asleep so will see if I can find Carrie in the 1920 and 1930 Census, and may be find some of her kids as well, after which I might get to bed for a few hours so that I afford your work the concentration it deserves. Oh yes - Clarence OSSMAN was widowed by 1930. CT PS - You have had an extremely successful weekend and your efforts are greatly appreciated.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 6, 2009 13:28:55 GMT -5
Just a few comments and thoughts before I head off to bed. Carrie's eldest child (1900 Census) is recorded as having been born in New Jersey so I would suggest that is where we might find her marriage to Mr RUSSEL. Frank - we now know that Frank married Lizzie SUTTON in 1895. Now that still leaves the 1906 (IGI) marriage to Nellie HENDERSON as a possibility although there are some problems. 1. We cannot yet find Frank in 1900 to see who is wife was then. 2. If Frank married Lizzie and then, possibly, Nellie then who the heck is Clara in 1910? 3. Frank and his wife are recorded as 'black' in 1910. - Why? 4. Whoever Frank was married to at the time of the 1910 Census he most certainly married Rosetta J BAZLEY before 1920 as she is recorded as his widow when the Death Certificate was filled out. Elizabeth - The information on her birth comes from IGI which states she was born 9th September 1877 Lancaster Co., PA. So I do not know the Township involved although ...... perhaps searching IGI using that particular Batch No might give me a clue! That didn't work , there are only a few entries and mixed Counties. Might be hard to track that one down given that they were in Vermont in 1870 and New Jersey in 1880. Will continue with more after a few hours sleep. CT
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Post by judylynn on Apr 6, 2009 15:42:34 GMT -5
Oh boy, we're clearly not all on the same page (literally). I am not subscribed to Ancestry. I view all American census images directly via Heritage Quest (a members-only site). It gives me an entire page, not just one household, so I usually scan the rest of the page "just in case." I've been aware all along that HQ apparently indexes their material independently -- which is a good thing sometimes, in that with two different entities transcribing handwriting, one of them might actually be accurate However, as we’re suggesting, HQ may use a different census sheet. If Ancestry has purchased the rights to the later, nicely rewritten "official" copy, it would make sense for HQ to then have resorted to securing the rights to the older, original censustaker's sheets. This would explain discrepancies not only in spellings of names and such ... but perhaps in page numbering ... and mayhap an occasional missed-in-translation person or household (if not “incompleteness”). I will e-mail you “my” census images. That said, the “L” on Frank’s wife’s 1910 census entry that I see is definitely in the “race” column -- not an F for female. And as for William RUSSELL ... how stupid of me not to make that connection Even if he himself didn’t marry Carrie, he might have introduced her to his younger brother or cousin. Wonder if NJ has marriage licenses available between 1880-82? Thanks for finding the note on Carrie’s widowhood -- I tried searching for her in 1900 yesterday and today, and still can’t find her! But it does seem likely that I’ll find her second marriage to Valentine in Northumberland Co. And perhaps Mr. Russell's death record in Northumberland or Schuylkill Co. The devil’s in the details, I always say, ~JL PS: I know your brain is rattled, but as to Ellen/Helen, remember that she and Mamie J. were found in the 1890 census directory! And being listed *after* Elisabeth An means the girls were younger -- born after the 1880 census. PS: As long as we’re dissecting the 1880 census, let me ask you about that Mary SPARNEL ... technically, the listing means she’s grandmother to the head of household, Matthew (otherwise, she should’ve been named “mother-in-law"). Is this possible? At age 79, Mary could’ve had a child at age 20 (ergo aged 59 in 1880), who then had 40-year-old Matt. Or, using the same math, could it be the granny of 37-year-old Eliza Jane? If Matt or EJ had a grandma named Mary who was still alive (perhaps remarried, unless it was EJ’s paternal grandma), was there an incorrect assumption made about her identity?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 7, 2009 2:44:05 GMT -5
Just an odd statistic for consideration while I work my way through all of this latest information. In the 1900 Census I am unable to find any sign of any of the sons of Matthew and Eliza TREWELLA. Matthew Henry's second (and last) child was born at Ashland, PA in 1897 and the family was later in Ohio. William John died in March 1900 but I cannot find his widow or son Charles. Charles John was born at Mt Carel in 1898 and baptised at Mt Carmel in 1901. Widow Elizabeth remarried but that was not until 1902. (Belay that - Bessie and Charles were with her parents George and Susanna Morse) Joseph - well he seems to have disappeared after 1880. Alfred - was married about 1894 and in 1910 is in the Borough of Albion, Erie, PA. (Transcriber indexed them as EMELLA!) Charles - another ho cannot be found after 1880. Frank - well we seem to be learning a lot about Frank lately! Of the girls I can certainly find Carrie (Russel), Elizabeth (Ossman) and Sarah (Payne). But I cannot seem to find Mary (Lewis) or the mysterious Ellen/Helen. Just something to ponder.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 7, 2009 7:47:59 GMT -5
JudyLynn - before getting stuck right into things, which will probably take me all night again , I have an observation. I have just brought up the two 1910 images on my screen for comparison and have magnified both to get a better look at them. And I can tell you that these are identical Census sheets! The handwriting is all exactly the same as is the spacing and every other detail. The difference is in the quality of the images and that must somehow reflect the quality of the equipment used to make the copies. A slightly different magnification has been used when filming and 'your' image appears slightly elongated in comparison - however they are certainly images of the same sheet. If you received the copy I sent you should be able to make your own comparison and I think you will agree with me. And now - this family seems to be getting more and more enigmatic! I am sure she must be the grandmother of Matthew's children. Firstly - Matthew was the son of Matthew TREWHELLA and Sally WILLIAMS. Matthew (senior) was son of William and Elizabeth. Sally was daughter of John WILLIAMS and Sally RUSSELL. There is no doubt about any of this so there is no way that Mary SPARNEL could be Matthew's grandmother. Eliza Jane SPARNON was born in 1843 or 1844 at Illogan and checking the Births Index on FreeBMD it appears that her birth was registered in the December Quarter of 1844. When she married Matthew TREWHELLA at Tuckingmill in January 1861 she gave her age as 17. Based on work by other researchers my understanding is that her parents were Henry SPARNON and Mary VIOL/VIAL. I have not been able to verify this myself but there is certainly evidence to support it. One of the witnesses to her marriage was Henry SPARNON although this may have been her brother rather than her father. But I can also say that this appears not to have been a very commong name. So grandmother to Matthew's children I believe she is. But what makes them more enigmatic is that I cannot find hide nor hair of them in the 1851 or 1861 Census. Mary appears at Camborne in 1871 living next to what appears to be her daughter-in-law Elizabeth and her children. (Elizabeth I think was the wife of John SPARNON.) John son of Henry SPARNON married Elizabeth Jane MATTHEWS 19th January 1860 at Tuckingmill. And I cannot find them in 1861 either! Anyway - given this is the same Mary then she has left for the US sometime between the 1871 UK Census and the 1880 US Census. Unable to find her, so far, on the Immigration lists but then her name could be spelt in any number of ways. I did some checking last night and it appears there is stuff available. However it is not online and you need someone to visit the appropriate archives in NJ. Hmm - I had forgotten that amongst the haze! But I have checked again and found the relevant directory listing in my database. So we know they existed but that is about all. As you say - they must have been born after the 1880 Census but what happened to them after 1890? We so far have no indication of a marriage for either and finding any sort of record of them might be difficult anyway without a bit of further information. I have a little more investigating to do on this so will continue in another note.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 7, 2009 10:55:36 GMT -5
I had considered the possibility that Ellen and Mamie J might not actually be daughters of Matthew which is why I wanted to investigate further. If not daughters they would most likely have been nieces or grandaughters. Neither of Matthew's eldest sons married until after 1890 and nor did Alfred whilst Joseph and Charles are still unknowns. Joseph, technically, could have been married and would have been 24 in 1890 but there is no further information about him at the moment. Matthew had only two brothers. John died in 1889 in Michigan and had only two children - Emma Jane born 1861 and John born 1863. (John died 1886 unmarried.) The other brother was our old friend Joseph who first married Elizabeth CURNOW and then Margaret SHARP. Could those two girls have been daughters from Joseph's first marriage? Anyway, I have tried (unsuccessfully so far) to find some record of them in 1900 and will try the later Census records but it is going to be a difficult job to find 'possible' candidates let alone evidence to prove it. But it is time to turn my attention to the 1920 Census and our old antagonist Frank! And I will deal with the TREWELLA girl with Stanley KILROY first. First off - I am not convinced that the name is KILROY but that is really probably neither here nor there. However, he has a wife named Mary (or May). He is born Kansas but I cannot decipher her birthplace. Then there is a daughter and the name could be Alice with a second initial. Son Thomas is next and then another daughter that looks like Caroline. Then it is interesting. The next member of the household is a Step Son but again I cannot decipher the name. And then comes our TREWELLA girl. But she is NOT a Step Daughter!!! She is, in fact, recorded as Adopted Daughter! ;D I cannot, unfortunately, make out any part of the christian name but there may be a slight chance of finding some sort of adoption record. Next point is that I believe her age is 3 rather than 8. There is an 8 five lines above and another two lines below that are quite distinctive in comparison and her age certainly looks more like the 3 two lines above. Final point - her birthplace is NOT Kansas! It is actually recorded as 'unknown'. (I have this page magnified to 400% and it actually looks much clear as age 3 and birthplace 'unknown' when magnification is reduced to 200%) It may be that I never find out just who this was. Frank and his wife. Frank is easy enough - age 45, born PA and both parents born England. He is also white, male, married, can read and write and works as a night watchman. His wife's name 'looks like' it might be Jessie but there is a problem with the name below which is Schlegel. The last letter of this name runs right up the the line on which the first letter of her name starts. At 200% magnification that first letter could be a 'D' but in comparison with a name further up the page I will go with the name probably being Jessie. Now, she is white, female, age 46 and born England as are both parents. Her year of arrival in the US is 'Un' (unknown) and she is 'Na' (naturalised) with both 'Un' and 'Na' being distinctly in the two separate columns. I think this has to be Rosetta J Bazley who was Frank's wife at the time of his death later in 1920. Next step is to see if I can find a birth for Rosetta in England and the immediate problem is that there appears to have been no Rosetta born in England with the surname BAZLEY, BAZELEY or BAZELY. Considering the possibility that she may also have been previously married I tried a search on ROSETTA J and found this:- September Qtr 1873 Holborn Registration District Rosetta JESSIE BENBRIDGE September Qtr 1873 Pancras Registration District Rosetta Jesieliner MALIN So there were two girls born in England at about the right time who more or less 'fit the bill'. Rosetta Jessie BENBRIDGE was married in 1892 to either John Harvey BRAZIER or William SOUTHGATE. Whilst BRAZIER 'could' sound like BAZLEY under some circumstances I think 1920 might be a bit late for that mistake to be made. But have a look at what I have found in the 1901 Census :- Leyton, Essex Edward BA?LEY, head, mar, 32, ? warehouseman, Middx., Rosetta Jessie Luis do., wife, mar., 27 London, St Pancras Edward John do., son, 4, London, Hackney That third character in the surname has been transcribed as 'G' but looking at the original it is quite dark and possibly overwritten so could equally be a 'Z'. Checking back on FreeBMD:- 1896 Bethnal Green R.D. June Qtr Vol 1c Page 475 Edward BAZLEYRosetta Jessie L MALIN I do believe I have found Frank TREWELLA's last wife!! ;D Therefore the name in the 1920 Census will be JESSIE.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 7, 2009 13:28:48 GMT -5
I have so far been unable to find any record of Rosetta entering the US and I cannot find her in the 1930 Census when she would have been Mrs WHITE. However there is a death record for a Rosetta WHITE in Miama Co., Ohio - died 16th October 1933 Volume # 7332 Certificate #58142 One further item that 'might be' her is in the 1891 Census in England. There is a Jessie R MALIN, age 17, born St Pancras enumerated as an Inmate at Mary Tavy Cottage Home in Devon. I don't know what sort of establishment this was but there were only five 'inmates' of whom all were girls with ages 15, 16, 17, 21 and 31. The head of the establishment was a 41 year old widow by name Margurite Du ANE - occupation 'medical & ?? nurse'. The only other person is a 'matron' named Louisa BOWLEY, single, age 35. That's about the best I can do on Rosetta for now. Regards the 1906 marriage of Frank TREWELLA and Nellie HENDERSON at Franklin Co., OH as recorded in IGI it is recorded that Frank was the son of Matthew TREWELLA and Nellie the daughter of John HENDERSON. Again I have been unable to find any trace of her in any Census prior to 1906. There is a Clara Henderson born about 1872 in Michigan daughter of John and Rachael but it I am having a problem getting the image to load so I may have to restart Internet Explorer to clear the cobwebs and then try again. May be a false alarm - IF Nellie was the Clara in 1910 married to Frank then she stated both parents were born in Michigan. In the 1880 Census Clara Henderson's father is recorded as born New York although Rachel was born Michigan. OH well ........ CT
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Post by judylynn on Apr 7, 2009 15:38:05 GMT -5
OK, last post on this thread before I go a-researching -- promise! I’ll add a search for Camilla PAYNE’s first marriage to my “to-do list.” Ummm, do we actually have any proof that her *maiden* name was indeed PAYNE? Or could she first have been married to a PAYNE? Whaddya mean, you cannot seem to find Mary LEWIS? Didn’t I just list her from 1890-1910, in reply #152? Or did you mean post-1910? As for the MARY SPARNEL on the 1880 census ... you still have not eliminated her from consideration as the *grandmother* of Eliza Jane. (I’ll agree that she probably wasn’t Matthew’s, though I’d want to see death dates/records of his grannies [who coulda been named Sally Mary!] if I were you!) You say Eliza Jane was born circa 1843, probably to Henry SPARNON and Mary (VIOL/VIAL). Let’s say this Henry and “mama Mary” were 20 at the time of EJ’s birth: that’d make them b. 1823. Now, “grandma Mary” SPARNAL was born circa 1801. That’s a whole generation’s difference! Yes, Mary (VIOL) might have been age 42 at EJ’s birth -- but perhaps was much younger. I’d be very interested to find whether Henry SPARNON’s mother’s name was named Mary, and was born around 1801 ... Not finding Helen/Ellen and Mamie J. is not a big concern to me. Remember the infant mortality rate was quite high back then; I half-expect to find their death records in Schuylkill Co. shortly after 1890. I feel they are indeed Eliza Jane’s daughters born after 1880 -- since Elisabeth An was just born in 1877, there’s no reason why there wouldn’t be additional kids born to the couple. But on the off chance the girls were perhaps nieces of Matthew instead of daughters ... specifically Joseph’s, you wonder? Ellen & Mamie had to have been born between the census and mum Elizabeth’s death (which we can only place at post-1880 census and 1888, the date of Joseph’s remarriage). Now, if Joseph married Margaret in 1888, and they had Josie (and perhaps the 3rd baby who died) by 1900 ... you'd think Joseph & Margaret would be raising his own young girls in 1890, aye? If Ellen and Mamie died young, or married and moved away without a trace, we may never know. In fact, if Ellen (the eldest) was born 1881/82, she might already have been married by the 1900 census. Have you checked for those first names in PA & OH? One reason we can’t find folks in 1900 may be that there seems to have been a mass TREWELLA migration to Ohio around that time. They could’ve been traveling while the census was taken, and missed each county’s enumeration (staying at inns along the way? or on a train?) -- especially if they all left PA together. Have you sat down and done a timeline of this branch -- who was recorded where/when? Sounds like you just might have something there for Rosetta! But I’m wary of finding only “circumstantial evidence” ... for that time period in the U.S., I’d go for death certs, obits, burial records, etc. for Frank and all his wives to confirm your hypotheses. Is anyone other than CT & I interested in these PA/OH branches? Is anyone else even reading these messages? This thread has moved so far afield from Cornwall that perhaps everyone would rather we take our two-way conversation elsewhere ~JL PS: CT, of the girl in the KILROY (or whomever) census entry: “she is NOT a Step Daughter!!!” Please recall, I neither said nor implied she was! I merely stated that she was an adopted daughter, as the census listed her.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 7, 2009 19:18:55 GMT -5
I owe a couple of apologies to JudyLynn I reckon! I realised an hour or so too late that you had indeed supplied the Census information for Mary LEWIS. And just looking back at the KILROY page and you most certainly did name this unknown TREWELLA girl as 'adopted child'. For both I apologise! Eliza Jane SPARNON - after a bit of work earlier tonight I can now tell you that Henry SPARNON was born at Illogan in 1800 and baptised there 26th October 1800. He married Mary VIOL/VIAL at Camborne 9th June 1823. Mary was baptised at Camborne 25th September 1803 d/o Robert VIAL and Mary TABB who married at Camborne 31st October 1802. Henry SPARNON was the son of Henry and Mary (nee RICHARDS) who married at Camborne 5th April 1790. So yes there was another Mary in the line - but on the SPARNON side. And in any case anyone beyond Henry and Mary (Viol) are well out of the equation by virtue of their age. So Grandma would almost have to be Eliza's mother. Camilla PAYNE - I must say that marriage entry with reference to her having been previously married has me baffled. I have spoken with direct descendants who remembered her (especially Robert Trewella's mother who actually knew her) and there has never been any mention of a prior marriage. A question that should be asked about that reference - IF she were previously married then why is she married to Matthew TREWELLA under her maiden name? Of was her first husband also a PAYNE? There were a few of them about - 19,340 of them indexed in the 1870 Census right across the US. I certainly have my suspicions but .... Prior to this particular excercise I knew that Camilla's father was Jacob/Jabez and that her mother's maiden name was BARNHART. I have found the family in Census records and in one Census Mrs PAYNE is 'Jane' and in another she is 'Jarusa' at least according to the indexer. The eldest son of Matthew and Camilla was Leroy Barnhart TREWELLA. Also in notes I have here from Robert and his mother are references to Matthew TREWELLA's sister Sarah having married Walter PAYNE, bother of Camilla. And they certainly appear in the Census together as siblings. So I have no doubt on that score and Camilla was certainly born PAYNE. to me they are more 'loose ends' up to a point! But on the other hand they appear to have been TREWELLA's and that's good enough for me to want to know more. But I think I have probably eliminated the niece/grandaughter thing from the equation. If they had been daughters of Joseph then it is probably more likely they would have been born closer to 1867 than 1890 and remember that in 1880 Joseph was in PA whilst Elziabeth was in NJ with no sign of any children. So if they have no children after 13 years it would be difficult to expect 2 to suddenly turn up after about 20 years. And brother John had only two children and that family is accounted for. John died in 1889 leaving a son and a daughter. The son died in 1886 without having married so no Trewella children to be found there. The logical conclusion must be that Ellen and Mamie J belonged to Matthew and Eliza. I have made an attempt to locate Mamie in the 1900 Census but there are some problems involved. The middle initial was not 'always' used even in US Census records. Mamie and even Mamie J is not such an uncommon name as might have been thought. And I have seen a girl recorded as 'Mamie' in one record but as something else in another. There is a nagging thought in my head that I have seen this name in another family and I am almost sure that (see above) in one Census the daughter was Ellen or Eliza or something like that and was then 'known as' Mamie in the next although undoubtedly the same child. I will have to check all my records and find that one. No search has been made for Ellen as yet but I should think that will be a more difficult task than finding Mamie. Your thoughts on why many of these are not found in 1900 are interesting and I will take a look at it. But this is not the only family where I have this problem! Frank and Rosetta I have a copy of Frank's Death Certificate and Rosetta was most definitely his wife when he died in 1920 (September I think). There is a record of marriage between Frank TREWELLA and Rosetta J BAZLEY in Ohio. From the 1920 Census we have Frank with wife 'Jessie' who was age 46 and born in England. There is a Rosetta Jesieliner MARIN born in London in 1873. Rosetta Jessie MARIN marries Edward BAZLEY in London in 1896. Yep - it would be great do get hold of all the relevant certificates but I am not sure that is gong to happen. But I am very happy with the progress and the results (so far) as shown here. Obviously some absolute concrete prooj is required but this is at worst a very good working scenario I think. I'm off to sleep and rest up for the next session. CT
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