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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 7, 2007 12:45:58 GMT -5
OK m'darlin' - have just come up with something else to throw into the mix for you. Some of this stuff may yet need to be 'absolutely confirmed' but it is as accurate as I know right now. 1st January 1790 John BERRYMAN, yeoman of Towednack married Elizabeth BRUSH at Gulval. (And here may be yet another problem solved ) To my knowledge there was only one child from this marriage:- JOHN BERRYMAN Why might I have picked this one you may ask. Well - let me tell you a tale that might just spark your interest. ;D Previous information had suggested that Elizabeth Berryman (nee Brush) had died prior to 1797. Her widower husband then married CATHERINE TREWHEELA at Towednack 7th January 1797. Now the young John BERRYMAN (above) was baptised at Gulval 21st April 1792 as 'son of John Berryman from Towednack'. So what, you may ask. Well I have just found something very interesting in the Gulval Online Parish Register:- Elizabeth BERRYMAN of TOWEDNACK was buried at Gulval 21st April 1792. ;D You may notice that the baptism and burial took place on the same day which was not totally unusual. The next part of this puzzle regards the 'now motherless' son John - and this could also prove very interesting as there is no evidence of him dying at a young age. The scenario is that young John survived and was brought up by his father (with help from relatives, I guess) until the elder John married Catherine TREWHEELA in 1797. This second marriage produced, to my knowledge, five children. Catharine (1797-1805 at Towednack) Richard (1799- ? at Towednack) Elizabeth (1801-1824 at Towednack and married Matthew TREWHELLA in 1824 at Towednack) Mary (1803 Towednack married John Bennetts at Lelant in 1831) Catharine (1806-1827 at Towednack) The elder John requires a mention:- I believe he was baptised at Towednack 4th May 1766 as son of Richard Berriman and Elizabeth (nee NICHOLLS). There is still a little work to do to ascertain correctly if we are dealing with the correct person but here is an abstract of the Will I believe to be from this same John. John Berriman, St Erth yeoman written: 22-Aug 1832 proved: 11-Feb 1848 pages: 94/95 died: 25-Jan 1843 wife - Catrine daughter - Mary Bennats, wife of John Elizth Berriman Trewhella son-in-law - Matthew Trewhella sons - John, Richard witnesses - None son John died in the life time of the testator You will note that 'son John died in the life time of the testator' I think this note was probably added because John and Richard were probably the Executors of their father's Will. Catherine (nee Trewheela) Berryman was buried at Towednack 2nd June 1834. The Interesting point here is that 'son John died in the life time of the testator' Now we know that this younger John was deceased prior to 1843 and we have been unable to find him in the 1841 Census. The predominence of the name 'Catherine' may be suggestive in this case but may take some work to prove. (Step-mother Catherine - step-sister Catharine 1797-1805 and step-sister Catharine 1806-1827). I reckon we 'may' have found a more likely candidate for the person you are looking for. ;D The next part of this problem is to see if there is a relationship with James and Clarinda (and therefore to Emily). Will close this note now so I can check a couple of things while I have some tucker and then sleep before the big day ahead.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 7, 2007 13:54:31 GMT -5
My one big problem with all this latest rhetoric is that I can still find no link between Samuel Uren and his wife to Emily Berriman. My last note had, I believe, some good information and certainly was able to help me with a couple of things. And I thought there were some very positive signs for us to work with in identifying the subject of your initial inquiry. But I had best take yet another look through your recent information and compare with the rest I have found and then try to disseminate it all. There is something in all this that I am missing but what is it.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jul 9, 2007 17:07:32 GMT -5
Mmm.... Will have a good look at this tomorrow. There's certainly a missing link somewhere. But for now, here's Mary Toman, nee Roberts, nee Uren's obituary, taken from The Western Echo dated Saturday 21st July 1934. Funeral - Rev. Harold Crook officiated at the funeral of the late Mrs Mary Toman of the Engine House, Ayr, whose death we announced last week. The interment took place on Sunday, when a large number attended. The chief mourners included: Mrs N NOALL (Daughter); Mr W UREN (Brother); James and Martha NOALL (Grandchildren); Mr R NOALL (Son in law); Mrs A RICHARDS (Daughter-in-law); Mrs Mary L UREN and Mrs J NINNIS (Sisters-in-law); Messrs Ben PHILLIPS, Ted HANCOCK, J PHILLIPS, R DATE, E BECKERLEG, R RICHARDS (Nephews); Mrs Mary CURNOW and Mrs M DATE (Nieces); Mrs M BECKERLEG (Niece-in-law). Floral tributes were sent by: Nanny, Dick and Martha; Martha, Bob, Peter and Norman, Long Beach, California; Maggie and Jim, Lakeland, Florida; Jim, Ruby and children; Beth and Adele (Grandchildren); M Noall; Brother William, Mary Lizzie, Lizzie and Ted; Uncle Ben; Martha and family; Sam, Ethel and Pauline; Doreen and Janie; Janie, Nickey and Jimmy; Nancy, Muriel and George; Wm. Jennings; W Paynter and family; Mr and Mrs Maddern and Jean; Robert Uren and family; Mrs Baragwanath. Haven't quite worked out where all the names fit in yet . Hope this helps and doesn't hinder. Ooo, have just had another look at your last posting, and it does indeed look promising! Will pursue again tomorrow, but I think you may well be onto something there
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 10, 2007 7:44:35 GMT -5
Very happy to have another interested pair of eyes look at that. It has been niggling at me from the start of this that our initial candidate was possibly 'not quite right'. John was baptised in 1799 and married in 1818 which is no 'great' problem. But I think we were looking at his wife being a good 7 years older. Again, not a 'great' problem but, with John being so young, must pose questions. John may have been born a couple of years before his baptism but the chronology of the family suggests this may not have been the case. My postings about Catherine/Christian still stand but my latest scenario 'seems' to be, in many ways, a more likely prospect. Main problem is to determine the relationship where the term 'cousin' is used. Will keep looking at this but now best check out a couple of other items of interest that I have received.
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kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Sept 1, 2007 14:21:03 GMT -5
The Ann UREN age 80 I believe to be the grandmother of Samuel UREN, the mother of Samuel's father John UREN; she was born abt 1759 and I do not know her maiden name or which parish just yet, but I suspect HOSKING. I believe this Ann UREN died 11 JAN 1843 at St. Ives.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 1, 2007 15:28:57 GMT -5
Hi Again - as per my reply to the 'Which John Uren' query - I will try and look into this after work tonight. Hope you can wait until then at least.
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kernow62
Ysel
Born again pagan.
Posts: 54
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Post by kernow62 on Sept 1, 2007 15:42:03 GMT -5
I I think I should have noted 'Grandson of old 'SAMUEL' Uren. Halsetown Marriages 16 Feb 1861 by Banns Samuel Uren 26 bachelor Labourer of Halse Town (Father: Samuel Uren, Shoemaker) Elizabeth Nankervis 21 spinster of Halse Town (Father: Henry Nankervis, Miner) Witnesses: Frank Treweeke, Catherine Quick What I was trying to get at was that William may have been more likely to have been a son of the above marriage. The above Samuel I would suspect was a son of 'old' Samuel's first marriage given the 'old feller' was a widower when he married Catherine Berriman.. ;D Here's a bit on the couple. 1904 September 18 Sunday DIED -Samuel UREN, aged 70 years died at his home in West Hancock, of heart failure. He and his wife came to Hancock 40 years ago from CORNWALL, ENGLAND, he was the son of Samuel UREN and Elizabeth CHAPPLE; the place of their births, and lived here ever since. He had been a miner at the Quincy mining company for many years but the last 10 years worked for the Mineral Range Railroad. He is survived only by his widow. He had no other relatives in the copper country. The funeral will take place tomorrow afternoon from the Hancock Congregational church. Burial was at Forest Hill cemetery, Houghton.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 3, 2007 13:13:17 GMT -5
Keep getting called to do more nights at work so am falling a little behind with things. A couple of items have also kept me busy when I have had the time but will, hopefully, get to look at this in more detail in the next couple of nights. Not sure when my next 'full day and night off' will be at the moment but will do my best.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 4, 2007 12:39:43 GMT -5
Still no sign of much time off but have not forgotten you. Did have a quick look at a couple of things tonight but came up with another blank. It would appear, though, that John Uren was not actually from Ludgvan and I have been unable, so far, to find a marriage for a John Uren to Ann in the right time period. Will have another look as I get the opportunity - I 'may' have something else here that might help but cannot promise. However, I will continue to try and find an answer for you.
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Post by jezabell84 on Jan 16, 2012 1:05:13 GMT -5
Hello, I pray you both are still watching this forum as I'd like some information on what you have been researching, you see I'm connected to the Berriman Family as well and have discovered different information to you and would like to know how it ties in. For instance:
Job Berriman b.1796 m. Jennifer Uren B.1797
Job's parents are:
Job Berriman b. 1760 m. Elizabeth Tremellin b. 1764
Job's Parents:
Nicholas Berriman b. 1727 m. Jane Pellew b.1734
Nicholas' parents:
Job Berriman b.1687 m. Dorathy Hosking b.1694
As you can see my family crosses paths with your connections so i would like to work out how and where things come into play.
Can't wait to hear from someone. Thanks in advance
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 16, 2012 5:48:40 GMT -5
Welcome to yet another member with Berriman/Berryman connections. The descendancy you show in your post matches what I have for that particular family so that is a good start. But there is actually not a direct connection to the family we have been discussing. At least there is not until you get back to 1684. The ancestor of James Berriman in this discussion was Mark Berriman born at Zennor about 1686. Your ancestor Job was the brother of this Mark and they were sons of Richard Berriman and Margaret Thomas who were married at Zennor 29th May 1684. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 16, 2012 5:57:13 GMT -5
Returning to the identity of Clarinda Nicholas. I think now that I can be reasonably confident in saying that Clarinda was the daughter of William and Mary Nicholas of Ludgvan. Although she stated in 1851 that she was born at St Ives we actually have only that record as any evidence of her birthplace. There is nothing to corroborate this and I think by now that we all know how misleading some of the Census records can be. There are two things that suggest she was from Ludgvan:- 1. She was actually married at Ludgvan 2. One of the witnesses to the Marriage was William Nicholas and we know there was a William at Ludgvan But I have now had the opportunity to view a couple of relevant Marriage Records and compare some signiatures! Clarinda daughter of William and Mary Nicholas was baptised at Ludgvan 23rd June 1793 (born 7th June 1793) William Nicholas of Ludgvan married Mary Corin at Gulval 16th November 1789 A comparison of the signiature of William Nicholas in 1789 with the signiature of William Nicholas who witnessed the marriage of James Berriman and Clarinda in 1813 shows that both are quite similar. Clarinda did have a brother named William but the signiatures indicate it was probably her father who witnessed the marriage. CT
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Post by zibetha on Jan 1, 2018 22:22:39 GMT -5
Happy New Year! It was -13 degrees C here yesterday and going down to -9 C tonight, so I am hiding indoors catching up on my DNA matches. That led me to read this thread 4 times!
I am not a Berriman researcher so could use some help with that. I match Berrimans who went to the Philadelphia area -- descendants of Francis Berriman* born 1839 St Ives and his wife, Ann Richards. For Francis' parents I am stuck at James Berriman born about 1799 in Towednack and his wife Ann Uren born about 1806 St Ives. Per Census records, they had children Tamson, James, Francis*, Catherine, Elizabeth, Samuel Uren, Margaret and Mary. I was wondering if they were related to the Berrimans under discussion here. James seems to have died before 1871, and I hm having trouble tracking his children.
So that was my question until I read all of this. Now the Catherine/Christians have my head spinning. But as I tried to sort it out, I realized I already had some of it on my tree and worksheets. The Samuel Uren discussed above who moved to Upper Michigan's wife, Elizabeth Nankervis, had a brother James Lawry Nankervis, and I have him as the husband of Susan Williams (his second wife.) Susan being the daughter of Rebecca Williams and Jakeh Williams and niece of my 3x great-grandmother Amelia Williams Sampson. (Rebecca and Amelia were daughters of John Williams and Rebecca Calf.)
Samuel Uren had a half-sister Catherine Rapson Uren, who married Samuel James Beckerleg, and they were the witnesses to her sister Mary's marriage to Peter Husband Toman. Catherine and Mary's mother, Catherine Berriman Uren was the 77 year old in Mary and Peter's household in 1891. I did have that Catherine/Kitty as the daughter of John Berriman and Martha Curnow.
Then there's Christian/Catherine 1817-- and when I got to the end, I saw the Mary Corin marriage information. I am a Corin on my grandfather's side via the Bartle line. I have Mary Corin who married William Nicholas as the daughter of James Corin (1729 Gulval)and Cordelia Sampson from research I've read That to me provides the clue as to why Mary's daughter, Clarinda Nicholas Berriman, named her first daughter Cordelia. As to daughter Christian, I am wondering if she is the one from Ludgvan that I had on my tree as the wife of 1) William Vellenoweth, and 2) widower John Ward, whose first wife was Jennifer Semmens (1808 Crowan) daughter of William Semmens and Jennifer/Jane Taylor, my 4x great-grandparents.
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 2, 2018 5:07:27 GMT -5
Well Zib - I am assuming after reading this that your main query is about the last paragraph involving Berriman and Vellenoweth? Working on that assumption I have done a little checking and concluded that Christian Berriman was indeed the daughter of James and Clarinda even though her age in 1851 (when I eventually found her as indexed as VELNSWETH!!) was recorded as 30 when she would actually have been 34. In 1851 William Vellenoweth was at Trenearth in Gwinear whilst Christian and ten month old daughter Jane were visiting Jane Judd at Constantine. Christian stated that both she and daughter Jane were born at Gwinear which is also not quite correct. You may find William Vellenoweth interesting as well! He was baptized at St Hilary 13th January 1812 son of Thomas Vellenoweth and Constance SYMONS! I have her in my database as baptized 5th March 1780 to Nicholas Symons and Jane Harvey. William Vellenoweth was buried at Gwinear 14th March 1852 age 40. Christian Vellenoweth, after being widowed in 1852, remarried in 1860 to John Ward as you have suggested. John Was widowed in 1851 when Jenifer died at the age of 43 - no doubt succumbing to the rigours of producing at least 14 children in the 23 years she was married! But that could be as many as 16 children with the Census and BMDs producing a little confusion. The 1841 Census shows sons John (born about 1828/9) and Thomas (born about 1833/4) yet no baptisms can be found for either of them. ON the other hand there are baptisms for William Semmens Ward in 1830 and Jenifer in 1834 who do not appear in the Census and for whom there are no burials! There had been an earlier Jenifer born 1826 and died 1833 and then in 1840 Jenifer Semmens Ward was born so although recorded as Jenifer this child in 1834 seems to have really been Thomas. And then with no sign of William Semmens Ward after his 1830 baptism it would seem that he was actually John come Census time! All other children are accounted for in the 1841 and 1851 Census and then in 1861 John and Christian had a son who was given the name Richard. CT
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Post by zibetha on Jan 2, 2018 14:48:53 GMT -5
I find Wards even harder to keep straight than Semmons.
John Ward married Mary Rodda July 7, 1850 and the couple can be found with her widowed mother Jennifer (Treloar) Rodda at Horse Downs in 1851. In 1861, Mary was a married carpenter's wife at Leedstown with 4 children. Mary died 1868, and their son, Thomas Henry Ward, was an orphan living with Thomas and Mary Edwards in 1871, so John Ward died sometime (don't know where)before that.
Brother William worked: In 1841 he was with his grandmother, Jennifer Taylor Semmons (farmer while husband was away from home as a mine agent)at Burnt Downs as a young family servant. In 1851, he lived with his paternal grandparents John and Ann (Eddy) Ward at Leedstown and was a mine carpenter. He married a cousin (Ward side) Jenifer/Jane Harvey May 7 1853. Jenifer was underage. I have not been able to find them for sure after that.
Thomas was with William c/o the Wards in 1851. I suspect at least 2 of the 3 brothers left Cornwall.
Zib
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