Mary Humphries Allen

[newlyn]

I am looking for the parents and ancestors of Mary b.1835-37

and d. 1905?

Mary was born in either Towednack or Powerstock.

She married John Henry Carbis b.1837, d.1903?.

They married in 1859.

1861 census they were living in Madron and had one son Richard
Allen Carbis.b.1859.

1871 census they were living in Penzance and had another son John Henry b.1864, and two daughters, Edith Allen b.1867,
Henrietta Malina b. 1869.

1881 census they were still living in Penzance with Richard and Henrietta. John Henry and Edith have disappeared but Laura b.1873 and Elizabeth b. 1877 have joined the family.
They had a boarder called Margaret Carbis b.1792 in St Levan.

From my Carbis searchings I feel sure that Margaret is not Johns Mother.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thankyou

[Cornish Terrier]

Mary Humphrey ALLEN bp. 30th April 1837 at Towednack
daughter of Richard (miner) and Elizabeth ALLEN

I don't know who Richard is at the moment but he may have been a son of the following:-

Oliver ALLEN married Mary HUMPHRIES 26th December 1789 at Ludgvan

Here we are (from IGI):-

Richard s/o Oliver and Mary Allen bp. 2nd January 1805 at Ludgvan

I would say this is probably the family so now need to find the marriage of Richard and Elizabeth.

Other children at Towednack :-

Richard bp. 19th October 1828
William bp. 5th December 1830
John bp. 11th March 1832
Elizabeth bp. 29th September 1833

Haven't checked yet to see if there is another ALLEN/HUMPHREY marriage but, at the moment, this looks promising.

BTW - have checked the OPC and cannot find the marriage of Richard and Elizabeth there.

Good chance it was at Towednack or Ludgvan but cannot be really sure.

I will check this thread later on today and see how you get on and will try and help a bit more from there.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

There was an Oliver ALLEN bp. 2nd February 1766 at Sithney s/o Oliver and Elizabeth

That is the closest possibility in IGI but I would be looking a bit harder before I went with that one.

Oliver ALLEN m. Elizabeth RICHARDS 1st May 1763 at Sithney.

It is possible, though, because a James ALLEN of Ludgvan married Susanna EDDY at Sithney in 1796.

Could be some inter-Parochial ties involved.

Will see if I can find a bit more later on.

[newlyn]

Thankyou Cornish Terrier for all the information.

I was convinced that Humphries was Marys Mothers

maiden name. Now it seems that it was probably her Grannys

name. No wonder I was getting nowhere fast!

Will do a bit more delving now and let you know.

You can have another

[cornishmaid]

Phillimores has/ve? the marriage of Oliver Allen and Elizabeth Richards on 1 May 1765 It doesn't say that either party was from another parish.

Have just found the following marriage:

Parish of Ludgvan - Richard Allen & Elizabeth James married on 24 Nov 1827

Any good?

[newlyn]

Thats great Cornishmaid, thankyou for looking.

Its a bit more to go on.

The Allen line is now starting to come together.

[Cornish Terrier]

Best you start taking SITHNEY seriously I think.

Firstly, I just checked the Sithney OPRs and the marriage of Oliver and Elizabeth was certainly 1765.

Now - I am now about sure that the Oliver ALLEN who married Mary HUMPHRIES was from Sithney.

Oliver ALLEN m. Elizabeth RICHARDS 1st May 1765 at Sithney
Both were then 'of Sithney'.

I have checked for marriages of an Oliver Allen to Elizabeth and IGI gives only two results - this one in 1765 and another in 1732 which would be just a little bit early.

So I think you have to live with what I am about to give you.

The Sithney OPRs show only two children for Oliver and Elizabeth after which this couple ends up in Ludgvan.

So here is the line up I have found of children to Oliver and Elizabeth:-

OLIVER bp. 2nd February 1766 Sithney
Elizabeth bp. 24th May 1768 Sithney
William bp. 21st October 1770 Ludgvan
Richard bp. 30th April 1775 Ludgvan
Elizabeth bp. 11th October 1778 Ludgvan
Susanna bp. 2nd December 1781 Ludgvan
Elizabeth bp. 5th December 1784 Ludgvan

OLIVER m. Mary HUMPHRIES 26th December 1789 Ludgvan

Richard bp. 19th October 1828 Towednack
William bp. 5th December 1830 Towednack
John bp. 11th March 1832 Towednack
Elizabeth bp. 29th September 1833 Towednack
Mary Humphrey bp. 30th April 1837 Towednack
Joseph bp. 22nd July 1838 Ludgvan
Thomas bp. 20th May 1840 Ludgvan
John bp. 24th September 1843 Ludgvan
Grace bp. 6th December 1846 Ludgvan

In the 1841 Census the family is at Newtown, Ludgvan.
Richard and Elizabeth both age 35
Richard 12
Elizabeth 8
Mary 6
Thomas 1

In 1851 they are at Crowlas
Elizabeth 43 widow
William 19
Jane 17
Mary 15
John 8
Grace 4

I don't know where William was in 1841.
And in 1851 we have JANE where ELIZABETH possibly should be.
Unless Jane was baptised somewhere other than Towednack or Ludgvan.
Also, in 1851 all are recorded as having been born in Ludgvan which is possible even though some, like William and Mary, were baptised at Towednack.

Richard (bp. 1828) was married to someone named Mary by 1851 and was then living at Liskeard.

Returning to OLIVER who married Elizabeth RICHARDS at Sithney in 1765.

It looks probable that he is the following

Oliver s/o Oliver & Thomasin ALLEN bp. 4th April 1742 at Breage

Oliver ALLEN m. Thomasen PAIN 2nd December 1734 at Breage

The only other option for this Oliver is that he was baptised at St Cleer which is way on up towards the Tamar River!

Before I finish off I will try to identify Richard ALLEN's wife Elizabeth JAMES.

Looks like she was born about 1807/8 at Ludgvan if we go by the Census.

The only possibility looks to be:-

Elizabeth d/o Joseph and Sarah JAMES bp. 13th October 1805 at Ludgvan.

The next possible was actually born in 1810.

And the only Mary HUMPHRIES baptised at Ludgvan appears to have been Mary HUMPHRY in 1692 so we need to look elsewhere for her.

Time to close for a while.

[londoner]

Most likely candidate is:
Mary Humphreys 14 MAR 1765 Penzance, Cornwall, England
father Henry

If I remember rightly Henry (or his father) had children baptised at Ludgvan and Towednack will have to check later if one or other of you dont beat me to it again!

[Cornish Terrier]

Londoner - I'll try and save all the thunder for you!

From IGI I had narrowed the field down to four - one at Falmouth, one at St Austell, one at Sennen and the one at Penzance with the latter being favourite.

So at a guess she was probably the daughter of Henry HUMPHRY (of Ludgvan at the time of marriage) who married Mary POLMEAR at Madron in 1764.

From there I think that Henry was baptised at Towednack in 1730 s/o Robert and Elizabeth.

Is that the way you are seeing it?

Be interested in your findings and we can work from there.

I am not totally confident of the identity of Elizabeth JAMES just yet but she does look like the most obvious one at the moment.

Oh - if I am on the right track with Mary then I think her uncle Robert is the one who married Elizabeth d/o Isaac and Susanna QUICK at Towednack in 1747.

Best look at some other queries for a change I think.

[londoner]

Looks like we have two Henrys
the one I had in mind was the son of Leonard (of Sennen) and his first wife Jane Nicholas, Leonard's second wife was Christian Lemall of St Ives, who we discussed elsewhere a while back. Leonard was the grandson of Robert H. of Sennen and Christian Otes of St Just (you might say all roads lead to Oates)
.....and his brothers Stephen & Robert married Margaret and Elizabeth PAUL but now you've thrown a Quick into the mix
.... and there was another Robert at T'wenack s/o John H. and Sibella Care
.... and one of them married Honor Ripper nee Jasper and started the Paul line of Humphreys

But dont get me started on the Humphrys Line Im having enough trouble with my other lot! where's the icon for tearing your hair out when you need it

[Cornish Terrier]

Do you have any marriage details for Henry s/o Leonard?

If so it will gives something to compare with.

How about I start with what I think are points in favour of Henry and Mary (nee Polmear).

1. He was 'of Ludgvan' when he married Mary POLMEAR 30th January 1764 at Madron. (Mary was 'of Penzance')
2. A daughter, Mary, was baptised to Henry HUMPHREYS 14th March 1765 at Penzance.
3. This baptism is just over a year after the marriage and then, at least through 1770, there is no further record of Henry at Madron/Penzance.
4. Sarah d/o Henry and Mary HUMPRY was buried at Towednack 9th July 1767.
5. Robert and Elizabeth (nee PEARCE) HUMPHRYS baptised a son named Henry at Towednack 11th October 1730.
6. Robert and Elizabeth also had a daughter named Sarah.

I can probably find a couple of negatives there but I am that tired now I had better leave it until tomorrow.

[newlyn]

Thankyou to all who have contributed to the above thread.

Plenty for me to go on there!

[londoner]

CT no further details about Henry son of Leonard - I hadnt realised that the Towednack one existed when I ascribed the marriage to Mary Polmear to him. I had, i now think wrongly, assumed he moved to St Ives when his father did.

[newlyn]

Leonard Humphrey married Jane Nicholas 8.6.1733 in Sennen

Leonard married Christian Lemaill 16.4.1754 in St Ives.

[Cornish Terrier]

Londoner - I do not guarantee that I am correct.

But based on the evidence I had to hand with a Henry being baptised at Towednack and then being 'of Ludgvan' at marriage the scenario all 'looked good'. (And add the sister Sarah and daughter Sarah to make it look even better.)

I think we need to see if anything more can be found about Henry s/o Leonard.

One thing that is interesting is that Phillimore shows Leonard Humphreys as being 'of ZENNOR' when he married Christian LEMALL in 1754.

I must wonder if this should actually be 'of SENNEN'.

You may recall some discussion in other threads about the confusion between Zennor and Sennen in many old documents.

Phillimore is not immune from mistakes and I have seen several including one where the bride's name is given as MASON when, in fact, it is clearly MAJOR in the PR.

Christian HUMPHREY buried 29th March 1780 at Sennen

I guess that was Leonard's second wife.

But there is no sign of Leonard himself at Sennen.

So let's see what we can find for young Henry so we might clear some foliage from the forest and see where we are going.

CT