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Post by marychown on Jan 21, 2009 14:48:57 GMT -5
I forgot to add in my message above that I sent away for the full marriage record entry for James Harvey and Jane Oats at Paul on 26 December 1801, which also helped decide me on choosing Jane Oats (baptised St. Just 1775). The record reads as follows:
By Banns, James Harvey, husbandman, and Jane Oats Sojourner of this Parish. Mark of both James and Jane. Married by William Oanam, Curate, in the presence of James Harvey and Hugh Oats.
I would hazard a guess that James Harvey is James Harvey (baptised 27 Jan 1754 Paul), the father of the groom, and that Hugh Oats is either the bride's father Hugh Oats (baptised 2 Nov 1742 St. Just) or her brother Hugh Oats (baptised 30 Oct 1769 St. Just).
Mary
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2009 21:23:09 GMT -5
Seems quite logical to me Mary . With both witnesses bearing the surnames of the bride and groom it is a good pointer. One way to be even more sure would be to check marriage witnesses for a couple of years either side to see if James or Hugh are there consistently. But I reckon you will have it right.
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Post by RobOats on Jan 22, 2009 7:13:24 GMT -5
I was a little confused at first but think I have worked this out. It was the Richard and Diana names that confused me given they seem to have been at least semi-prominent in this line at the time. From what I now understand a Richard OATS married Diana JEFFERY and they were the parents of Richard Jeffery OATS. Hope that is correct? If I have that correct then Diana was baptised 21st April 1808 (another entry suggests the month as August) and her parents were:- Richard JEFFERY m. Diana HUTCHENS 10th October 1795 at St Buryan Always gets confusing with multiple generations using the same name Yes Richard Jeffery OATS (b. 1831) was the son of Richard Oats (1810 - ?) and Diana JEFFERY. Diana (bapt 1808, St Buryan) was the daughter of Richard JEFFERY and Diana HUTCHENS. Marriage of Richard and Diana 22 Sept 1830 by banns 15, 22 and 29 Aug 1830 in Sancreed. One witness was William JEFFERY ( brother of Diana). His second marriage was on 22 June 1852 to Jane NOY (widow) nee WILLIAMS. Still working on the base records at the moment but Richard (1810)was still alive in 1881 living at Gurland, St Just in Penwith with Jane aged 70.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 22, 2009 7:56:41 GMT -5
Thankyou for the update and confirmation. Will do my best to keep up and will contribute when I can. CT
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Post by marychown on Jan 23, 2009 3:13:10 GMT -5
Hello again Roy,
In reviewing my family history records I have discovered that there is also a link between the Paul parish Oats/Harvey/Bennetts family to the White family of St. Just. Would that be any connection to your Whites?
See my earlier posted messages: Jane Oats who married James Harvey at Paul on 26 Dec 1801 had a daughter Mary Ann Harvey (born Paul 10 Oct 1802) who married Michael Bennetts (baptised Paul 2 Dec 1798) at Paul on 18 March 1821. Their daughter Elizabeth Bennetts (baptised Paul 17 April 1829) married THOMAS WHITE at Paul on 15 Dec 1853.
The Paul marriage entry reads: 15 Dec 1853 by Banns Thomas White, full age, Miner of Paul (Father Thomas White, Miner) & Elizabeth Bennetts, full age of Paul (Father Michael Bennetts, Fisherman). Witnesses: Michael Bennetts and Thomas Oats.
In the 1861 Census living at St. Just (RG9/1598; Folio 20; p 2) Thomas White, Head, Married, 39, Tin Miner, born St. Just Elizabeth White, Wife, Married, 32, born Mousehole Thomas White, Son, 5, born St. Just Elizabeth Jane White, Daughter, 4, born Mousehole Nicholas White, Son, 3, born St. Just Ellen White, Daughter, 2, born St. Just James White, Son, 2 months, born St. Just James Oats, Boarder, Unmarried, 17, Tin Miner, born Mousehole
1871 Census living at Nanpean & Parkanchapel, Boswedden, St. Just (RG10/2344; Folio 77; p 2): Thomas White, Head, Married, 49, Miner, born St. Just Elizabeth White, Wife, Married, born St. Just??? Thomas White, Son, Single, Miner, born St. Just Elizabeth J White, Daughter, 14, born St. Just Nicholas White, Son, 13, Miner, born St. Just James White, Son, 10, Scholar, born St. Just Mary E White, Daughter, 6, born St. Just
1881 census living at North Princes Street, St. Just (RG10/2344; Folio 77; p 2: Thomas White, Head, Married, 59, Tin Miner, born St. Just Elizabeth White, Wife, Married, 51, born Paul, Cornwall James H White (James Harvey White), Son, Single, 20, Tin Miner, born St. Just Mary E White, Daughter, 16, born St. Just, Cornwall William White, Son, 5, born St. Just, Cornwall
1891 Census living at New Downs, St. Just (RG12/1860; Folio 160; p 30): Thomas White, Head, Married, 69, Tin Miner, born St. Just, Cornwall Elizabeth White, Wife, Married, 62, born Mousehole, Cornwall William White, Son, 15, Tin Miner, born St. Just, Cornwall
1901 Census living at 16 Queen Street, St. Just (RG13/2257; Folio 81; p 15: William White, Head, Married, 25, Tin Miner/Worker, born St. Just, Cornwall Mary Ann White, Wife, Married, 19, born St. Just, Cornwall Elizabeth White, Mother, Widow, 71, born St. Just???, Cornwall
Despite the 1871 and 1891 censuses recording Elizabeth's place of birth as St. Just, she was born at Mousehole on 17 April 1829 and baptised at Paul on 11 Jan 1853 (prior to her marriage to Thomas White) d/o Michael Bennetts and Ann (Mary Ann Harvey). IGI record of birth and late baptism at Paul gives her parents as Michael Bennetts and Ann. Some of their children were recorded as the children of Michael Bennetts and Mary Ann and others as the children of Michael Bennetts and Ann, so Michael Bennetts's wife must have been known by her second name.
I wonder if any of these tie in with your family records?
Mary
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Post by RobOats on Jan 26, 2009 12:33:23 GMT -5
The OATS family in question is now on my database. Will try to identify who the original Richard is now.
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Post by jsykora on Jan 27, 2009 20:27:56 GMT -5
Wow! I didn't know my branch of the Oats family was connnected to so many researchers! Thank you for all the information. I have much of the same information since Rob Oats put me on the correct path. Mrs. Julie Lawrey has also connected my family to the Veal and Barker families in Australia and New Zeeland.
Richard Jeffery OATS information posted here is correct. In the 1841 UK Census he and the family are listed as living in Brane. It was between 1841 and 1861 that the Oats family moved or parrish lines shifted to St. Just. Richard Jeffery OATS married Susannah PROUSE in 1852 in St. Just in Penwith and they had one daughter, Mary Ann Oats. Richard's sister Grace married Sussannah's brother two months later and in the same month there is another Richard OATS who married a Jane NOY. I assume the last marriage is the father of Richard Jeffery OATS. A lot of OATS marriages in 1852 in St. Just! My source is the Cornwall Census Project, Rob Oats, and Julie Lawery.
Susannah died around 1854 and Richard Jeffery OATS remarried in 1856 which is where my family line kicks in. Richard Jeffery OATS married Elizabeth TREMBATH in 1856 (daughter of Ambrose TREMBATH). It is at this time that this family took up residence in Kelynack according to UK Census 1861-1891. Mary Ann OATS is listed as with the family in the 1861 Census but disappears by the 1871 Census. Richard ThomasOATS, Elizabeth, James, Anne, and William are all listed in the 1871 Census records and the 1881 records but it was shortly after this that the family started spreading out. By 1882, Richard Thomas OATS, emmigrated to the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area of the USA, coal mining area. In the 1891 Census, there is a William OATS living with the HARVEY family in St. Just in Penwith. William is listed as an apprentice "grocer". This fits with the family stories but I have no way to prove that this is the same William that was born in 1871 to Richard Jeffery OATS and Elisabeth (Trembath) OATS. I do have the 1901 Census that lists Willam and Ellen (Murley?) OATS with a daughter Rebecca living in St. Just and William's occupation is listed as grocer. Pretty sure this fits.
This is just the start. Let me know if anyone is interested in more. Oh! I almost forgot. I have found a record of Richard OATS b, about 1808 with an older brother William living in Paul.
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Post by RobOats on Jan 28, 2009 5:18:29 GMT -5
Richard Jeffery OATS married Susannah PROUSE in 1852 in St. Just in Penwith and they had one daughter, Mary Ann Oats. The only record of Mary (daughter of this couple) in the 1861 census where she is named as Mary Susan aged 8. There is a record in the 1871 Census (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kayhin/72343.html Folio 56 Page 12) for Mary Ann aged 18 working as a servant at 49,Bojewyan,1 for Richard WHITE, grocer and family. This may or may not be the same person. There is no baptismal record for her. Do you have any records to indicate whether she was Mary Susan or Mary Ann? Jane NOY was a widow and her maiden name was WILLIAMS.
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Post by jsykora on Jan 30, 2009 19:20:23 GMT -5
Thanks Rob! As usual, you have the correct name, Mary Susan Oats. I was trying to do most of the names and dates from memory as my records were at home and I was at work. I keep a small notebook at work for genealogy work but missed the name of Richard Jeffery Oats' oldest daughter.
As a side note, I did find an old picture of the Oats farmhouse in Kelynack. The photo was taken during WWII and the farmhouse was abandoned at the time. I did some inquiring and correspondence and found out the old farm is now what we call a bed and breakfast place in Kelynack. The owner has done some research and the last Oats to have owned the place was Anne Oats, probably the youngest daughter.
Thanks again for the help.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 30, 2009 21:28:26 GMT -5
I see the question has been answered but, just the same, here is the information from FreeBMD:-
Births - Penzance R.D.
1852 - Mary Susan OATS September Qtr Vol 5c Page 325
1853 - Mary Ann OATS March Qtr Vol 5c Page 372
Could get very confusing particularly if, as I have seen many times, the middle name is dropped from time to time in Census Records - and more especially if the girl is away from home as, in the case, a 'servant'.
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Post by jsykora on Jan 31, 2009 13:10:21 GMT -5
Not the first time I have been side tracked. I once was looking for a daughter of Richard Jeffery Oats named Elizabeth. I found what appeared to be her married to James Nankervis in St. Just with her mother, Elizabeth T. Oats, in St. Just or Sancreed. Later I found birth dates that didn't match up and I found Elizabeth, James, and Anne all living in Kelynack with their mother. Wild goose chase so thanks for the support and information.
Almost forgot! If you do some research for Richard Jeffery Oats be aware that I have found a change in the spelling of the JEFFERY to JEFFREY from time to time. The change seems to be random and refers to both Dianne Jeffery Oats and Richard Jeffery Oats, mother and son.
John Sykora
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Post by tonymitch on Feb 2, 2009 8:24:38 GMT -5
I have refrained rom contributing so far, (unususal for me) but have followed the argument with interest, 'cause the Mitchells are mixed up with Bennetts, Oats, Harvey Humphrys and God Bless 'em....Leggo (via Furze). There is however another possible ancestor for Richard Oats, which I will "Run up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it"....How about this. Could he be the son of Richard Oats and Mary Bospidneck (bp 16 Mar 1783 St Just) ? Martin Oats has been discussed and dismissed by me (a sure sign that he should be included) ;D because that given name does not appear in suceeding generations and anyway the dates for the other Richard fit better. However, I'm going for another Richard.....Richard, son of Richard and Ann Shackerley (Bp7 Jan 1841) ....Just seems right. To muddy the waters even further, Richard's second wife, Jane Noy nee Williams therefore my g-g-mother's step mother is, I suspect, linked to the Williams family of my other g-g-mother who married into the Furze family and was reported in the 1901 census to be living in the house of a John Leggo!!! Tony M
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Post by RobOats on Feb 2, 2009 16:55:44 GMT -5
Tony: thanks for the input. I also have a strong suspicion that Richard born circa 1780/1 was the son of Richard and Ann SHAKERLY (mentioned in another thread).
Although there is a Richard baptised to Richard and Mary BOSPIDNECK the child does not correlate well with this couple. Some 10 years after their marriage doesn't quite fit and other researchers believe that the record could be mis-read and the name is actually Marg and not Mary and have tagged Richard with Richard and Margaret TREEVE. Timings match (2 year interval) for this child.
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Post by jsykora on Feb 3, 2009 20:21:30 GMT -5
Hello Tony! This is interesting. As you have been reading, I am descended from Richard OATS through Richard Jeffery OATS. I won't go into detail as I am sure you have read my line here. I am curious about Richard OATS, the elder, and your connection. Does it involve the union or Richard Oats and Jane WILLIAMS or an earlier connection to Jane?
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Post by tonymitch on Feb 4, 2009 17:52:34 GMT -5
Hi John, My connection is via Richard Jeffery Oats younger sister, Mary (b 1845). I say "younger" because she was a twin to Louisa and I have no way of knowing which was the elder. Mary was my g-g-mother and is named on the 1851 census as 'Nanny'. She married my g-g-father James Mitchell in 1865 and 'emigrated' to Millom, Cumberland about 1890. Like you, my connection is via the union of Richard and Diana, but there may be a twist to the story" Richard's first wife was Jane who was born Williams. James Mitchell and Mary Oats had a son James who married Margaret Furze.....Margaret's mother was born Elizabeth Williams. Is there a conncection I ask myself? I'm going to have a good look at that little lot one day once I have exhausted the Mitchell/Harvey/Humphrys/Paul/ Grenfell/Richards/Olds/Polgrean side of my family.....Oh..I have forgotten the Tresize lot. Then there's the Davies/Howcrofts/Bailies and Mums side of the family Then there's the wife...but ....let's stop there shall we. By the way....does May 31st 1876 mean anything to you? Tony M
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