Who is Phillis?

[trencrom]

I found a burial for a Phillis Curnow in late 1832 in the published (CFHS) Towednack burials. She was aged 26 at the time.
Does anyone know who she was?

Trencrom

[Cornish Terrier]

Trencrom - I have no record of a possible Phillis Curnow at present who could be this one.

That is to say that I do not have a Phillis Curnow baptised about the right time that I have not accounted for.

I would suggest she may have been the wife of a Curnow and the following may be of interest.

Anne d/o John (miner) and Phillis Curnow bp. 20th March 1832 at Towednack

This is the only record for the baptism of a child to John and Phillis Curnow so it is possible she is the one you are seeking.

And I cannot find her in the 1841 Census or the 1851 Census.
In fact the only Phillis Curnows appearing in the above were born about 1786, 1816 and 1829.

If we can find the marriage of the above John and Phillis I think we might have our girl.

Of course, you could always contact Bill Curnow who is the OPC for Ludgvan and is the best Curnow expert I know.

Hope this is of some help.

[trencrom]

Hmmm .... I don't suppose anyone has access to the burial register or a transcription of it and can tell us whereabouts in Towednack this Phillis was at the time of her death in 1832? That might help identify her more clearly.

Trencrom

[Cornish Terrier]

Unfortunately I don't but Cornishmaid or Londoner may have or may have reasonably easy access to it.

My Towednack information for BMDs only covers the period to 1812 but I am hoping to track down whatever I can from 1813 onwards to add to my growing collection of PR information.

If I find anything more I will post it here.

[crida]

Hi
I will try to check the burial register for you later this week.
Crida

[cornishmaid]

Thanks Crida. The only burials they have for Towednack for the right time period at Redruth are the CFHS ones, and no details are given as to residence at the time of death, it simply says:

Phillis Curnow, buried 20 March 1832, age 25

(There was another Phillis Curnow buried 19 May 1815, age 1)

[crida]

Can't remember how detailed the Towednack registers are - but let's hope there are some extra details!
Crida

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks girls and welcome back Crida.

I have copies of some pages from the Lelant and St Ives PR's for burials and they appear to be a standard format which, I think, started in 1813.

The Baptism and Burial Registers have provision for 'Abode' so this 1832 entry should give us the information we require.

In anticipation - Ian

[crida]

Checked the burials this morning. The entry for Phillis is very difficult to read but abode seemed to be Amalveor Towednack.
Does this help?
Crida

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks Crida - this may well help solve the problem.

1841 Census - Towednack
Amalveor,1,John Curnow,35,,Tin Miner,In county,
,,Peggy Curnow,,30,,In county,
,,Phillis Curnow,,12,,In county,
,,Peggy Curnow,,5,,In county,
,,Ann Curnow,,3,,In county,
,,John Curnow,5m,,,In county,

This family is still at Amalveor in 1851 and John is aged 46.
Phillis is not enumerated with the family but there are three other children - Sampson (7), William (5) and Sarah (3).

All members of the family were born at Towednack except John's wife Peggy who was born at St Just.

Working from the 1841 Census.

Daughter Phillis would have been born about 1828 but there appears to be no baptism for her at Towednack and none appearing in the IGI.

However, there is a gap of seven years between Phillis and the next child, Peggy, who was born about 1835/6 and this suggests to me the possibility of multiple marriages being involved.

Here is a list of children baptised to John and Peggy at Towednack up until 1840.

Samson bp. 26th April 1835
Peggy bp. 26th February 1837
Anne bp. 23rd January 1839

Samson appears to have died prior to the 1841 Census and was replaced afterwards by the child appearing in 1851.

This baptism (1835) is the earliest I can find for a child of John and Peggy and occurs about three years after the burial of the Phillis who is the subject of this thread.

As mentioned in a previous post there was an Anne baptised to John and Phillis Curnow 20th March 1832 with she being the only child found to that couple.

I would suggest that Anne also died prior to 1841.

I would also suggest that the 12-year-old Phillis in 1841 was also the daughter of John and Phillis. (But where was she baptised?)

This means that Peggy was probably John Curnow's second wife.

In all events here John was a miner and in both 1841 and 1851 he was at Amalveor.

UH-OH

Have just found something in my database that throws a spanner in the works.

I was about to comment on the fact that John named two sons Sampson.
Checked for Sampson Curnows and found that Sampson and Alice Curnow (m. 1799 Zennor) had a son named John baptised at Towednack 12th August 1804.
Of course I got all excited until I found that this John had been married twice:-

John m. Elizabeth CHAPEL at Gulval 14th May 1825
John m. Peggy Bennets NANKERVIS at Towednack 19th October 1833

And there is the spanner!

However - No burial has been found for Elizabeth which is most interesting.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Elizabeth was daughter of Peter and PHILLIS Chapple and was baptised at Madron 30th November 1806.

The PHILLIS in the 1841 Census with John and Peggy is now most likely to be Phillis Chapel Curnow who was baptised at Towednack 13th March 1830 d/o John and Elizabeth.

Let's look at the possibility that, for some reason, either an error has occurred in the Parish Register or that Elizabeth somehow suddenly became known as Phillis.

If we work on a time-line then all the data (apart from the name Phillis) fits neatly.

My suggestion now is that the burial of Phillis Curnow at Towednack in 1832 is actually that of the elusive Elizabeth (nee Chaple) and that Anne bp. 1832 was her child.

Given all evidence to hand, including Census records, I doubt we will find another Phillis who was married to a John Curnow in the relevant time-frame.

I would be almost willing to bet that this is the solution.

[trencrom]

Apr 24, 2008 8:00:46 GMT -5 crida said:

Checked the burials this morning. The entry for Phillis is very difficult to read but abode seemed to be Amalveor Towednack.
Does this help?
Crida

Thank you very much Crida. ;D

In posting last week I was anticipating that the abode would indeed be "Amalveor", which is the name of a hamlet in Towednack, and I was just holding back until I got confirmation that it was Amalveor before coming out with a proposal to the forum that the reference to Amalveor was indicative that there was a mistake in the given name of the deceased and that the burial in question was actually that of ELIZABETH Curnow nee Chapel, first wife of John Curnow of Amalveor, John being the son of Sampson Curnow of Amalveor and his wife Alice..

An extensive search I did in the Penwith area had failed to find any burial record for Elizabeth, and yet we knew that she had a daughter -- a Phillis -- christened in March 1830 and that John Curnow her husband remarried to Peggy Bennets Nankervis in late 1833 and he is shown as a widower in that marriage record, hence Elizabeth must have died in the intervening time.

After failing to find any burial for Elizabeth it occured to me that perhaps the reason for this was because there had been a mistake in the given name in the burial record, and so I went back over the records for Towednack as well as those for the neighbouring parishes for any female Curnow burials in the right time frame and with the right age. "Phillis" aged 25 in 1832 fits the bill as earlier research I did had ascertained that Elizabeth was the Elizabeth daughter of Peter Chapple that was christened in Madron in 1806. It was also the only burial that I found that did fit the bill.

As Cornish Terrier has noted, Elizabeth's mother was also named Phillis, and I can add that the mother was still living at that time, so maybe that was a factor as well in the mistake being made in the Towednack record.

A long-lost piece of a jigsaw puzzle has been found.

Trencrom

[trencrom]

Cornish Terrier's mention of a christening of an Anne Curnow, daughter of John and "Phillis" Curnow, is interesting, especially as I see that this Anne was christened on the same day that the 25 year old "Phillis" was buried.

The christening records are similar to the burial records in giving the "abode" , aren't they? If so, could I ask for a check on Anne's christening record to confirm that this is indeed another Amalveor record?

If Anne's mother was actually Elizabeth, then the two events taking place on the same day will explain why the mistake was made twice in the records. It is starting to look very much as if Elizabeth must have died in childbirth with her fourth child.

Trencrom

[trencrom]

Something else .....

If Anne is John and Elizabeth's daughter, then it may be significant that she does not appear with John's family in the 1841 census. Did she die young?

[crida]

Hi trencrom
I will check the baptism for Anne and will also look for a burial for her. She does not appear to have died after civil registration began.
I wonder if Elizabeth had the second name of Phillis?
Anyway will get back to you on this hopefully on Tuesday!
Crida

[Cornish Terrier]

There is one more possibility that might be considered here.
I must admit that, whilst I thought to check it, I did not actually compare the date of Anne's baptism with that of the burial of Phillis.

Now that it has been brought to my attention that the events both took place on the same day then consider this.

Phillis (Elizabeth) dies as a result of giving birth to Anne and it must be noted that Phillis did not necessarily die on the actual day of birth but possibly one or more days later.

The child is not likely to survive and has either died or is very near death on the day Phillis (Elizabeth is to be buried).

The child has a hastened Christening and then dies or, perhaps, the Christening is posthumous.

In either case we can surmise that the child died prior to the burial of her mother.

This being the case leaves us with the possibility that she was buried with her mother with only her Christening being recorded.

I do not think this would be a 'first'.