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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2008 11:35:38 GMT -5
My apologies - that should read Andrew THOMAS, mariner & Ann QUICK.  I am afraid I have, as yet, been able to identify the parents of either Andrew or Ann. In fact Ann has been on my 'who the hell is she' list for many years. IGI shows only three children named Andrew Thomas being baptised between 1745 and 1765 with one of those buried within a month. And there are only eight entries (including marriages) between 1735 and 1775. Of these there are only two possibilities:- Andrew bp. 26th December 1751 at Redruth son of John and Catherine Andrew bp. 8th June 1746 at Lelant son of Simon and Margaret Unless there are others not yet recorded by IGI I would suggest it more likely that the child baptised at Lelant would be the one who married Ann Quick. That is not correct. I do not have James Buzza Quick in my database but I think he came along much later anyway. The James in question was baptised 30th April 1722 at Zennor and I believe him to have been the son of John Quick and Ann (nee Vibert). James left a Will in 1795 and was buried at Towednack 26th February 1795. Catherine Trewhella was baptised at St Ives 14th March 1727 daughter of Martin Trewhella and Catherine (nee Baragwanath) and was buried at Towednack 29th August 1813 aged 89. Hope that has cleared things up for you.  |
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Post by Isambard on Apr 14, 2008 17:59:48 GMT -5
----------- That is not correct. I do not have James Buzza Quick in my database but I think he came along much later anyway. The James in question was baptised 30th April 1722 at Zennor and I believe him to have been the son of John Quick and Ann (nee Vibert). James left a Will in 1795 and was buried at Towednack 26th February 1795. Catherine Trewhella was baptised at St Ives 14th March 1727 daughter of Martin Trewhella and Catherine (nee Baragwanath) and was buried at Towednack 29th August 1813 aged 89. Hope that has cleared things up for you. Thanks for that additional info Ian. It's becoming clearer ;D. Bill Quick had James, son of John Quick and Ann Vibert, identified as James (Buzza) Quick, married to Catherine Trewhella 1748; Catherine being the daughter of Martin Trewhella and Catherine Baragwanath (what a marvellous family name!).  |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 14, 2008 20:38:26 GMT -5
Been doing a little work on this Dunstan/Thomas/Quick scenario and have a few updates.
It may be that you have a lot of this but I will produce it in any case.
When I first knew about this section of the Dunstan family I had the information from Bill Quick and it appears there was a little bit of confusion with the two James Dunstans (father and son) and also it would seem that Bill had assumed the name of the elder James' wife from the names of his daughters.
But I have now found the correct data.
John DUNSTAN m. Mary RUNDLE 6th February 1778 at Truro.
James DUNSTAN s/o John and Mary bp. 19th October 1794 at St Austell
Married 12th May 1816 at Lelant
Mary Nicholas OULD (bp. 13th July 1794 Ludgvan d/o Richard OULD and Johanna nee NICHOLAS
Susanna Rundle DUNSTAN bp. 18th July 1816 at St Erth
Mary Rundle DUNSTAN bn. c. 1819
James DUNSTAN bn. 10th March 1821 Truro bp. 22nd April 1821 Lelant
Married Mary THOMAS (bp. 25th February 1822 Towednack d/o Andrew THOMAS and Ann QUICK)
** Tom - I would like details of the children of James and Mary please **
I have four children -
Mary Thomas DUNSTAN married John Glasson QUICK
Susanna DUNSTAN
James DUNSTAN
Andrew T DUNSTAN (I presume the 'T' is for THOMAS??)
Now I just noticed something this morning that you asked me several weeks ago and I had forgotten to check it out.
I can now give you some details about Ann Quick THOMAS, sister of Mary.
Thomas NINNES bp. 30th April 1820 Towednack s/o Joseph NINNES and Hannah nee CURNOW
married September Qtr 1844 (presumably at Towednack)
Ann Quick THOMAS
Three children that I currently know of:-
Hannah born Ludgvan about 1844/5
Elizabeth Ann born Ludgvan about 1846
Thomas born Towednack 1850
Ian
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Post by gandolf on Nov 4, 2008 0:26:53 GMT -5
James DUNSTAN bn. 10th March 1821 Truro bp. 22nd April 1821 Lelant Married Mary THOMAS (bp. 25th February 1822 Towednack d/o Andrew THOMAS and Ann QUICK) ** Tom - I would like details of the children of James and Mary please ** I have four children - Mary Thomas DUNSTAN married John Glasson QUICK Susanna DUNSTAN James DUNSTAN Andrew T DUNSTAN (I presume the 'T' is for THOMAS??) Having looked into this family when I had James Dunstan incorrectly placed as the wife of Mary Baragwanath, I am glad I never throw anything out. Came in useful when I realised that James Dunstan's wife Mary Thomas was herself a Quick descendant and second cousin to Mary Baragwanath. James Dunstan apparently died 22 Nov 1906 at Canonstown Mary (nee Thomas) Dunstan apparently died 15 Apr 1901 at Canonstown Their children" Mary Thomas Dunstan b. 1852 Lelant Susanna Dunstan b. 1857 Ludgvan James Dunstan b. 1859 Ludgvan d. 1871 Penzance Dist. Andrew Thomas Dunstan b. 1861 Ludgvan d. 1871 Penzance District. William T. Dunstan b. circa 1862 Mary Thomas Dunstna married her first cousin John Glasson Quick as mentioned above. James and Andrew Dunstan appear to have died within days or weeks of each other - both deaths registered Mar 1/4 1871 |
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Post by gandolf on Nov 4, 2008 0:40:26 GMT -5
I can now give you some details about Ann Quick THOMAS, sister of Mary. Thomas NINNES bp. 30th April 1820 Towednack s/o Joseph NINNES and Hannah nee CURNOW married September Qtr 1844 (presumably at Towednack) Ann Quick THOMAS Three children that I currently know of:- Hannah born Ludgvan about 1844/5 Elizabeth Ann born Ludgvan about 1846 Thomas born Towednack 1850 I have also had a look at this, and think that Thomas & Ann Ninnes and family left Cornwall in the 1850's. The don't appear on any later censuses for Cornwall - for that matter neither they nor their son Thomas appear to be in either Britain, Canada or the USA in the 1880/1881 censuses. Perhaps the family emigrated to Australia or South Africa? Also, some information on Mary and Ann's sister Elizabeth Thomas: Elizabeth Thomas married 13 OCt 1849 Lelant to James Champion Martin. Elizabeth and James appear to have had at least one child: Elizabeth Champion Martin b. 1853 Penzance Dist. The Martin family then seems to disappear before 1861, like the Ninnes family. |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2008 5:29:15 GMT -5
FreeBMD Deaths 1880 June Qtr Vol 11a Page 294 Bridgend Ann Quick NINNES 61 1871 Census - Bettws, Glamorgan, Wales (Can't read the address) Thomas NINNES, head, mar, 51, platelayer, Cornwall Towednack Ann do., wife, mar, 52, Cornwall Towednack E A do., daur, unm, 23, Cornwall Ludgvan Thomas do. jnr., son, unm, 22, carpenter, Cornwall Towednack William J do., son, unm, 19, carpenter, Cornwall Towednack This appears to be Hannah:- FreeBMD Marriages 1870 September Qtr Vol 11a Page 615 Bridgend David WILLIAMS m. Hannah NINNES 1871 Census - Llangynwyd, Glamorgan David WILLIAMS, head, mar, 26, railway guard, Glamorgan Porthcawl Hannah do., wife, mar, 26, Cornwall Ludgvan There was another Hannah NINNIS married in Wales in 1880 married to Frederick Stephens WILLIAMS but she was born about 1844 at St Agnes, Cornwall. In 1881 Thomas NINNES is living at Llangynwyd Lower, Glamorgan age 61 and has only a housekeeper enumerated with him. 1881 Census - Ynysawdre, Glamorgan David WILLIAMS, head, mar, 36, railway guard, Glamorgan Porthcawl Hannah do., wife, mar, 36, Cornwall Marazion David T do., son, 9, scholar, Glamorgan Ynysawdre Annie do., daur, 5, scholar, Glamorgan Neath Edward P do., nephew, 9, Glamorgan Swansea I think those names are right although I am not really sure about the nephew. The writing is very thick and very dark and so quite difficult to read. I won't check 1891 and 1901 just yet as I really need to get back to your note and read it properly. |
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Post by gandolf on Nov 4, 2008 7:17:24 GMT -5
Curioser and curioser, as Alice said  I know I checked the 1881 census on the IGI, yet somehow missed Thomas Ninnes?  CT, the IGI version of David & Hannah Williams family on the 1881 census tallies word for word with what you have detailed - your eyesight is apparently not as bad as you hinted in another post recently. I also agree that Hannah married David Williams, places her only a couple of kilometres from her fathar in the 1881 census. Mind you, it is beginning to look like the Bridgend area of Wales is developing into a hotspot for missing Cornish folk - this is the second or third family I have seen in the last couple of weeks that moved to that area. OK, further additions to this corner of the family. Elizabeth Ann Ninnes married 1878 Bridgend District to Joseph Burgess. Joseph was apparently a Devon lad, not Welsh. I have them on the 1881 census as follows: Joseph BURGESS Head M Male 33 Berry Pomeroy, Devon, England Game Keeper Elizabeth A. BURGESS Wife M Female 33 Towednack, Cornwall, England Dwelling Combs Wood Census Place Little Munden, Hertford, England Piece: RG11/1403 Folio: 11 Page: 16 |
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Post by gandolf on Nov 4, 2008 7:29:13 GMT -5
Elizabeth Thomas married 13 OCt 1849 Lelant to James Champion Martin. Elizabeth and James appear to have had at least one child: Elizabeth Champion Martin b. 1853 Penzance Dist. The Martin family then seems to disappear before 1861, like the Ninnes family. I am less certain about the attribution of daughter Elizabeth Champion Martin as Elizabeth & James daughter. There are three Elizabeth Champion Martin girls born 1853, 1862 and 1863. The 1862 Elizabeth seems to be the daughter of a Benjamin Martin. In combination with James Champion Martin's name, this suggests that there could have been several brothers (sons of a Martin-Champion marriage) and each of them could have named a daughter after their mother's family. So without further proof (e.g. baptism or census) the attribution would have to come with a big qualifier. |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2008 10:50:00 GMT -5
I do think you mean 1878 my friend. I will check into that Elizabeth Champion Martin dilemma and, hopefully, post some conclusions shortly. |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2008 12:29:39 GMT -5
Well - I can find 10 children to James and Elizabeth MARTIN at Ludgvan from 1825 to 1840. Amongst them is James Champion, Benjamin Champion and John Champion but I cannot, unfortunately, find a marriage for James and Elizabeth and they with most of their family seem to disappear after the 1841 Census. I know that Benjamin Champion MARTIN married Martha Nicholls MEMORY in 1850 and had a son Benjamin born at Towednack in 1851. (From 1851 Census and then they disappear) A quick look at Wales, Victoria and South Australia shows no immediate sign of them. Have to think on this one a little more I think - especially in relation to the three recorded births of Elizabeth Champion Martin.  |
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Post by gandolf on Nov 4, 2008 14:54:59 GMT -5
I do think you mean 1878 my friend. Opps, you're right - have modified the post to fix up the typo. |
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Post by gandolf on Nov 4, 2008 14:59:18 GMT -5
A couple of more pieces of the puzzle....
Thomas Ninnes died 1891...
NINIS, Thomas, Jun 1/4 1891, Bridgend/11a/508
son William died 1905...
NINNIS, William, Jun 1/4 1905, Bridgend/11a/476
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Post by gandolf on Nov 5, 2008 6:41:12 GMT -5
CT,
Believe I have a possibility for James Martin (husband of Elizabeth - parents of the ten childern) in the 1851 census.
Piece: HO107/1917 Place: Uny Lelant -Cornwall Enumeration District: 2c
Civil Parish: Ludgvan Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 151 Page: 33 Schedule: 119
Address: Tregender
MARTIN James Head M M 48 Mine Agent Cornwall - Ludgvan
MARTIN Ann Wife M F 40 Cornwall - Ludgvan
MARTIN John Son - M 15 Miner Cornwall - Ludgvan
MARTIN Margret Dau - F 13 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
MARTIN William Son - M 11 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
MARTIN Joseph Dau - F 8 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
The two sons, John and William are good matches for John Champion Martin and William Henry Martin. Father James's age is a reasonable match for James' age in 1841, given the rounding in that census.
Note the addition of a daughter Margaret and son Joseph. There is a gap between James & Elizabeth's sons John & Edward that is just big enough to fit Margaret in, and Joseph could be the 12th child.
No doubt you have noticed that James' wife in 1851 is Ann not Elizabeth. There are three deaths in the Penzance District of an Elizabeth Martin, 1842, 1847 and 1847, any one of which could be Jame's wife (it may be too neat to suggest that the 1842 one is her and that she died in childbirth with Joseph??).
There is also a marriage of a James Martin in 1850 Penzance District, to an Ann James.
As I said, I can't be certain that it is the same family, but it looks like a very good candidate.
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Post by gandolf on Nov 5, 2008 7:18:56 GMT -5
Even though like, you CT, I cannot find a marriage for James & Elizabeth Martin, it still looks reasonable that she was a Champion.
Not only do we have the middle name of three of the children, but there are there are a couple of other families of Champion in Ludgvan in the 1830s - 1850s.
One is Joseph & Ann Martin. 1851 Census:
Civil Parish: Ludgvan Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 97 Page: 9 Schedule: 23
Address: Rospeath
CHAMPION Joseph Head M M 43 Copper Miner Cornwall - Redruth
CHAMPION Ann Wife M F 39 Cornwall - St Hilary
CHAMPION Edward Son S M 19 Copper Miner Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Elizabeth Ann Dau - F 17 Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Joseph Son - M 16 Copper Miner Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Benjamin Son - M 14 Copper Miner Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Peter Mathews Son - M 10 Copper Miner Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Mary Dau - F 7 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Eliza Dau - F 4 Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION John Son - M 1 Cornwall - Ludgvan
The other is Edward & Elizabeth Champion. 1851 Census:
Civil Parish: Ludgvan Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 139 Page: 9 Schedule: 30
Address: Crowlas
CHAMPION Edward Head M M 39 Copper Ore Dresser Cornwall - -
CHAMPION Elizabeth Wife M F 41 Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Elizabeth Dau - F 12 Schollar Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Margret Dau - F 10 Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Edward Son - M 8 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Mary Ann Dau - F 6 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION John Son - M 3 Scholar Cornwall - Ludgvan
CHAMPION Eliza Jane Dau - F 1 Cornwall - Ludgvan
Note the ages of the two men, Joseph & Edward, together with their names and the names of the children.
The names Edward, Benjamin, Margaret, John & Joseph are all good crossover matches with the family of James & Elizabeth.
Circumstantial evidence to suggest that Elizabeth was indeed a Champion, and probably a sister of Joseph Champion & Edward Champion above.
Hang on, just checking the IGI and have the following, all children of Benjamin & Elizabeth Champion
ELIZTH CHAMPION Christening: 19 AUG 1804 Redruth
BENJAMIN CHAMPION Christening: 16 FEB 1806 Redruth
MARY CHAMPION Christening: 18 OCT 1807 Redruth
JOSEPH CHAMPION Christening: 18 OCT 1807 Redruth
EDWARD CHAMPION Christening: 02 JUL 1809 Redruth (died in infancy?)
EDWARD CHAMPION Christening: 26 MAY 1811 Redruth
Pretty much confirms it I think, given that Joseph & Edward are in Ludgvan, and Benjamin Jr is in St. Ives in 1841. That's three of the four surviving children proven in the area. What odds that Elizabeth Champion is the wife of James Martin?
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Post by cornishmaid on Nov 5, 2008 8:07:37 GMT -5
Does this marriage help In the Parish of Ludgvan on 10 July 1824, James MARTYNS married Elizabeth CHAMPION |
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