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Post by Isambard on Apr 13, 2008 11:29:05 GMT -5
Mary Thomas, b. 22 Jan 1822 Towednack, married James Dunstan, b. 10 March 1821 Truro, 1st qtr 1852 in Uny Lelant, (Penzance Vol 5c page 449). I'm looking for bmd's for Mary's parents, who I believe were Andrew Thomas and Ann Quick. Could not find on usual sites.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2008 13:40:44 GMT -5
Well my friend - it seems we have a little problem here. Mary Thomas was baptised at Towednack 25th February 1822 d/o Andrew and Ann THOMAS. According to Census records Andrew was born at St Ives (c.1784) and Ann was born at Towednack (c.1791). Now, the only Ann Quick born at Towednack anywhere near the right time was baptised at Towednack 2nd May 1791. This looks perfect - except for the fact that this Ann Quick married Christopher Osborn at Zennor in 1813 according to information I received some years ago. It appears now likely that the mother of Mary Thomas was not Ann Quick. BUT - there was certainly an Ann Quick involved in this family but this was one generation earlier. I checked IGI for a baptism for Andrew Thomas at St Ives and found:- Andrew THOMAS bp. 13th November 1783 at St Ives s/o Andrew & Ann I then checked for a marriage for Andrew and Ann and found:- 17th October 1782 at St Ives Andrew Quick, mariner, married Ann QUICK, lic. So it was actually the Grandmother of your Mary who was the Ann Quick. I do not know where this Ann Quick belongs at the moment but I will have another attempt at tracking her down. Next step is to try to identify another Ann born/baptised at Towednack around 1790/1791 who may have been the wife of the younger Andrew Thomas and, therefore, mother of Mary Thomas. In 1789 we have Ann d/o Stephen and Mary Allen. In 1792 we have Ann d/o Richard and Ann Morrish from Zennor. Also in 1792 we have Ann d/o William and Ann Webber from Lelant. The next Ann does not appear until 1795 which is a little late. I think the best solution would be to ask if Cornishmaid or Londoner might possibly be able to check on the marriage of Andrew and Ann which probably occurred around 1817. That would certainly give us Ann's maiden name.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 13, 2008 13:45:10 GMT -5
I am assuming this is the marriage of Andrew Dunstan and Mary Thomas that you refer to.. 10 Mar 1852 by banns James Dunstan, Junior full age carpenter of Ludgvan (father: James Dunstan, road surveyor) Mary Thomas full age milliner of Uny Lelant (father: Andrew Thomas, post master) Witnesses: Andrew Thomas, Thomas Richards Just thought I'd put it in for reference. Mary's father Andrew is a post master, the Andrew Thomas in Towednack was a Yeoman. Mary listed as of Lelant, and James of Ludgvan. Not that these are insurmountable hurdles of themselves, but with CT's comments above it would indeed seem Mary came from other parentage and location
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2008 14:08:51 GMT -5
More and more complicated. In the 1851 Census Andrew Thomas and his family are at Lelant where he is a 'letter receiver'. He was born St Ives and his wife Ann and children Andrew, John, Alice Quick and Mary were all born Towednack. This seems to fit with the Towednack PR information which shows Andrew Thomas as a farmer at the time of those children's baptisms. So we do seem to be looking at the correct Andrew Thomas with no need to try and search out another. But one interesting point here is that Mary's occupation is given as 'School Mistress'. (A year later she is a 'milliner'). I think we really need details of the c.1817 marriage of Andrew Thomas to Ann to help solve this problem.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 13, 2008 14:41:32 GMT -5
I'm afraid the only marriage I could find was: Andrew Thomas and Nancy Quick on 21 July 1816 in Towednack Parish. Clear as mud
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2008 15:14:25 GMT -5
It do begin to look like we have successive generations of Andrew Thomas men marrying girls of very similar name yet a generation apart. One marries Ann Quick at St Ives in 1782. Another marries Nancy Quick at Towednack in 1816. Well burn me and butter me on both sides! I have no Nancy Quick in my database prior to 1804 and only one Ann Quick that fits with the birthplace and age of the wife of Andrew Thomas the younger. This was the daughter of James and Elizabeth bp. in 1791 at Towednack. But Bill Curnow has her married to Christopher Osborn at Zennor in 1813. Perhaps a look at that marriage might throw some light on things. Unfortunately Christopher Osborn apparently died in 1831 and, as I cannot seem to find Ann Osborn in the 1841 or 1851 Census, it would appear his wife may have remarried. Well, time to rest on this for now.
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Post by Isambard on Apr 13, 2008 15:46:32 GMT -5
I am assuming this is the marriage of Andrew Dunstan and Mary Thomas that you refer to.. 10 Mar 1852 by banns James Dunstan, Junior full age carpenter of Ludgvan (father: James Dunstan, road surveyor) Mary Thomas full age milliner of Uny Lelant (father: Andrew Thomas, post master) Witnesses: Andrew Thomas, Thomas Richards Just thought I'd put it in for reference. Mary's father Andrew is a post master, the Andrew Thomas in Towednack was a Yeoman. Mary listed as of Lelant, and James of Ludgvan. Not that these are insurmountable hurdles of themselves, but with CT's comments above it would indeed seem Mary came from other parentage and location Some additional reference info on James Dunstan, for those rearching Dunstans : James Dunstan b. Kerwyn Street., Truro, 12:40 AM, 10 March 1821, christened by Reverend Carlson(?) in Uny Lelant 22 April 1821 Apprenticed as Carpenter to William Nicholas under an Indenture dated 15 February 1834, for a six year term. In 1856 Post Office Directory and 1871 Cornwall Census, Ludgvan, listed as Road Surveyor. In 1881 census, Ludgvan, listed as farmer of 9A+ In 1901 census, Turnpike Road, Canon's Town, listed as Road Surveyor (retired). In Kelly's 1902 Business Directory, Canon's Town, listed as Cow Keeper. Died 22 November 1906, Ivy Cottage, Canon's Town.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 13, 2008 16:07:07 GMT -5
The only marriage I could find in Zennor of a Christopher Osborne in 1813 was to an Ann Richards, ie: Parish: Zennor; Marriage of Christopher Osborne to Ann Richards on 13 January 1813.
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Post by Isambard on Apr 13, 2008 18:15:18 GMT -5
More and more complicated. In the 1851 Census Andrew Thomas and his family are at Lelant where he is a 'letter receiver'. He was born St Ives and his wife Ann and children Andrew, John, Alice Quick and Mary were all born Towednack. This seems to fit with the Towednack PR information which shows Andrew Thomas as a farmer at the time of those children's baptisms. So we do seem to be looking at the correct Andrew Thomas with no need to try and search out another. But one interesting point here is that Mary's occupation is given as 'School Mistress'. (A year later she is a 'milliner'). I think we really need details of the c.1817 marriage of Andrew Thomas to Ann to help solve this problem. Mary was listed as a Milliner in the 1841 census. Ann was listed as age 22. A transcription error or is this a daughter? See below: 1841 Census Towednack: Chypons,1,Andrew Thomas,55,,Farmer,In county, ,,Ann Thomas,,22,,In county, ,,Mary Thomas,,19,Milliner,In county, ,,Elizabeth Thomas,,17,,In county, ,,Andrew Thomas,15,,Farmer,In county, ,,Margeret Thomas,,13,,In county, ,,Wilmot Thomas,,12,,In county, ,,James Thomas,9,,,In county, ,,Alice Thomas,,10,,In county, ,,John Thomas,6,,,In county,
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2008 23:41:25 GMT -5
No - it is not a transcription error. That is, in fact, Ann Quick Thomas bp. 13 September 1818 at Towednack dau. of Andrew and Ann Thomas. But what is strange is that I have been unable to locate the elder Ann in the 1841 Census. She is back with her family in 1851 but I can find no sign of her earlier. Have checked all her siblings as well as her parents in 1841 but she is not with them - so I am at a loss. However it is possibly irrelevent given we have her in the later Census. And now we have fresh information from 'cornishmaid' to work from and this seems to me to solve a great deal of the problem. Christopher OSBORN actually married Ann RICHARDS in 1813. This means that the wife of Andrew THOMAS is almost certainly Ann QUICK bp. 1791 Towednack d/o James QUICK and Elizabeth QUICK. BTW Elizabeth QUICK, Ann's mother, was the daughter of James QUICK and CATHERINE TREWHELA. ;D Oh - in defense of Bill Curnow I would be quite confident that this was not an error on his part. My thoughts are that this would have been collateral information supplied to Bill from an outside source and that he has passed it on to me in good faith without having the time or oppportunity to verify it for himself. And I should think, at the time, he would have had no reason to question the validity. And now I must update my database and try to determine the correct identity of the wife of Christopher Osborn. I suspect this is going to be another problem for me. Anyway things are falling into place very neatly now as regards Andrew Thomas and his family which is great news.
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Post by Isambard on Apr 14, 2008 7:11:22 GMT -5
Thanks "Cornish Terrier" and "cornishmaid" for that "Quick" solution. Tom
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 14, 2008 7:30:44 GMT -5
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2008 9:14:51 GMT -5
You are indeed most welcome Tom and this is what the Board is all about. And yet a further update to report. Christopher OSBORN, age 45, of Treveal was buried at Zennor 12th September 1831 Daughter Mary Ann (m. John QUICK) died at Towednack 28th March 1857 age 42 Son Matthew OSBORN was buried at Zennor 17th March 1830 age 16, of Treveal AND I BELIEVE I HAVE FOUND CHRISTOPHER'S WIFE! Ann OSBORN, age 54, of Treveal was buried at Zennor 1st June 1833 But herein lies another problem. I thought she may have been one of the Ann Richards baptised at Zennor in 1793 and 1796 but her age at burial places her birth at about 1779 which means she was about six years older than Christopher. I can find no earlier Ann Richards at Zennor - at least nowhere near 1779. The only 'real' possibility appearing in IGI is an Ann d/o Nicholas and Elizabeth Richards baptised at Paul 28th November 1779. In IGI I can find only one marriage for a Nicholas Richards to an Elizabeth anywhere near the right time:- Nicholas RICHARDS m. Elizabeth POOLYE 21st January 1772 at Gulval Another thought on this - I suppose it is possible that Ann RICHARDS was actually a WIDOW when she married Christopher OSBORN If she was then it would appear her husband was not buried at Zennor. Oh well - at least we are a lot further advanced than we were yesterday. Time to tackle another problem for a while.
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Post by Isambard on Apr 14, 2008 9:18:12 GMT -5
No - it is not a transcription error. That is, in fact, Ann Quick Thomas bp. 13 September 1818 at Towednack dau. of Andrew and Ann Thomas. ------------. Ann Quick Thomas presumably married between 1841 and 1851 censuses, since she does not appear in the latter? PS: I assume that your other reference is to James Buzza Quick 1722-1791 and Catherine Trewhella 1728-1795.
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Post by Isambard on Apr 14, 2008 10:09:38 GMT -5
Well my friend - --------- I then checked for a marriage for Andrew and Ann and found:- 17th October 1782 at St Ives Andrew Quick, mariner, married Ann QUICK, lic.-------. CT: BMD's for these two Quicks?
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