James Mi(t)chell of Boscarne

[Cornish Terrier]

Tony - just briefly before I try to take a closer look at this and a few other threads.

I'm not with the Hester being born 1730, I have her birth as 1748

Aha!

I can see a picture forming here that absolutely 'smacks' of IGI.

You have been working on a birthdate of about 1744 for James MITCHELL.

It also now seems (you have stated) that you are working on a birthdate of about 1748 for Hester RICHARDS.

I believe I can solve that part of the problem for you and can advise you to pretty much ignore these dates.

James MITCHELL m. Hester RICHARDS 3rd June 1769

If James was born in 1744 it would make him 25.
If Hester was born in 1748 it would make her 21.

If you check the IGI you will find references for both parties that look a little like this:-

James Mitchell born abt. 1744
Hester Richards born abt. 1748

This is standard IGI practice where they use a standard age of marriage for Males as 25 and Females as 21.

This is absolutely no indication of when either party was actually born.

Let's face it - if there was an IGI entry for my marriage and they did not have a birthdate they would say I was born about 25 years before the marriage when, in fact, I was married at the age of 32.

I would be still working on the possibility that your Hester Richards is the one baptised in 1730.

Ian

[Cornish Terrier]

Regarding the death of Samuel Harvey Mitchell.

I think I can now safely say that it was he in the following record from St Buryan:-

Samuel Mitchell of New Town in St. Just 18 Jul 1862 aged 42

In the 1861 Census he is at New Town, St Just with Mary Ann and the children so I believe there can be no doubt this is him.

But I am now having a problem with his father James.

If it was he buried at St Buryan in 1850 then his age is given as 57 placing his birth at around 1793.

Should this age be accurate then he is not likely to be the son of James Mitchell and Margaret (nee Grenfell) as they were not married until 1799.

Their son James was, I think, born/baptised in 1799 and would have been about 19 or twenty when he married Lavinia.

Lavinia is age 49 in the 1851 Census yet recorded as 56 when buried in 1853.

Things are confusing me here so I will have another look over things and hopefully post further thoughts in another posting.

[tonymitch]

Ian, James is listed in the 1841 census as having an age of 40 = birth in 1801.

I have trawled from somewhere (why the hangman I don't keep a record of these things I don't know) a birthdate of 1799. Father James and Margaret Grenfell I have as marrying 23rd Feb 1799. I think a 'cousin' of mine in Canada, a descendent of Simon Mitchell son of James and Margaret also has the same dates etc. and we arrived at them independently.

Tony M

[Cornish Terrier]

Tony - it is possible there are Transcription Errors involved here but we won't know that without getting a look at the original PR.

I can understand the possibility of 51 and 57 being confused as it only needs a minor blemish on the page to make the difference.

However, Lavinia provides another problem. Her age in the 1851 Census is clearly 49 yet two years later, when she was buried, her age is 56.

And I cannot find a baptism for her anywhere!

Also have not been able to find James and Lavinia in the 1841 Census and I have tried many ways to do so.

Best go now - have a few other things to do for the Fire Brigade but will be back online tonight and tackle a few of these problems.

[tonymitch]

James and Lavinia in 1841 census are listed as being at Boscarn Vean. (PRO Ref HO107/141/9 District of St buryan District 2 Folio 14 page 3.....Hallelujah, at last I've collected a reference!!!) ;D
James Mitchell 40 Agricultural Labourer, Levinia 40, Samuel 20 shoe maker, Joseph 15, John 10, Levinia 8, Jane 6, Rebecka 2, Ann Casley 20 Female Servant.

In Boscarn itself we have James 70 (father?) with Margt Trezise 29 and Binane Trezise 2 along with Samuel Harvey 70 Agricultural Labourer (Lavinia's Dad?) and Simon Mitchell 8

This census return is well worth looking at as Humphries Wallis and Co are scattered around like confetti. Also Mark Hattam's Web Site confirms a lot of stuff I have .

Off now to treat the wife to a bowl of soup at the local Garden Centre.

[Cornish Terrier]

Damned if I know why I cannot find them in 1841 but have note your refences and will try and look again at this problem after work tomorrow night. (Must work on the QUICK problem also tomorrow night.)

Hmmm - think I am going to be busy for a while!

Will, as usual, do what I can and as soon as I can.

[londoner]

Transcribed thus by A***y
Binane Fsezin 2
Mary Tricin 29
James Wilchel 70
and:

Mitchel 15
Mitchel 8
Mitchel 6
James Mitchel 40
James Mitchel 30
John Mitchel 10
Levecker Mitchel 2
Levina Mitchel 40

[londoner]

Apr 15, 2008 13:15:13 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

that I have a better grasp of things.

OK - with regards to James MITCHELL m. Hester RICHARDS.

Have checked the dreaded IGI and can find only one possible Hester RICHARDS that in any way fits our scenario.

And this also provides a reason for James and Hester apparently having only the one child.

Hester RICHARDS d/o James and (?) bp. St Levan 30th August 1730
She would have been 39 when young James was born which is not a great problem and, as I said, provides reason for there being only one child.
It also means that James MITCHELL may have been a little older than first thought.
I can find no reference to the baptism of a James Mitchell (var.) between 1712 and 1769 any nearer to St Buryan than Ludgvan and Phillack so we need to continue looking for other options.

And So.....

if (and I know it's a big if) we are prepared to accept ~Hester bp1730 and James bp 1712 at St Levan as the pair that married in 1769 I can now add some more information about this James.

The will of Andrew Michell (mariner ) 1703 mentions brother James, sister Sarah (who in 1708, m Wm Tonkin), the family of Penicost Cara and "his beloved mother Mary".

buried 1729 at St Levan is Mary Mitchell - who is mentioned in the will of Joseph Glasson (see my other posting) as his sister.
(Simon, below, is also mentioned)

Our James (1712) was bp s/o James (and Margaret Paul (sister of Joseph) who m 1704 in Sennen)as were:
Elizabeth 1705 (possibly m Thomas Nicholas and d Elizabeth)
Sarah 1707
Simon 1709 d1786 m1745 to Ann d/o Joseph Paul
Andrew 1715 -1766
William 1720 -1743

The will of Andrew (1715 - 1766) mentions brothers Simon, James, John, sisters Sarah wife of Robert Bennatts (m 1745), Elizabeth w/o Stephen Bennatts (m1756) and nephew Robert s/o Robert Bennatts.


SIMON (see above) was the father of Joseph, Anne, William & Mary
Anne m 1 William Harvey, 2 Jonathan Humphrys (s/o Robert & Elizabeth nee Paul)

And so the circle is complete so long as you dont come up with another James as candidate for husband of Hester ;D

[Cornish Terrier]

That 1766 Will has me a little confused.

Andrew names brothers Simon, James and John but makes no mention of William.

According to my records Andrew had brothers Simon, James and William - but I did not have a John.

Perhaps I missed something somewhere along the way when I worked on the St Levan and Sennen information several years ago.

Would be most happy if someone could enlighten me.

[tonymitch]

Ian, you're confused ...I'm amazed, gob smacked and bewildered. (Wasn't there a song with that as its title a few years ago?) I'm out of breath trying to keep up. I've been off line for a time due to a gooed up hard drive (20 mins to 'boot up') came back on line tonight to this. It really needs sorting out and my little room hasn't enough floor space to cope with all the sheets of paper necessary. One thing puzzles me... ... 'Andrew' is not a name in my family. Mind you, neither is 'Anthony' until your truly came along. Sorry, two things puzzle me... ... ...Andrew was a mariner...James et al were farmers and future generations were farmers/miners and latterly artisans (shoemakers). We have never had mariners or Andrews in the family, but Harvey, Humphries and Tonkin do appear with regularity.

Lesley...can't understand the previous message though (Remember, I'm rather slow) Who the hangman is A***y (judging from the typographical errors and if it were A*****y it could have been me), but what is this source and its meaning? As for "Levecker Mitchell" is this the name of a person or of a Belgian motorway service station?

Thanks anyway for all your hard work. You really are a star.


Tony M

[Cornish Terrier]

Tony - much of the heiroglyphics are the results of what the Transcriber came up with and it is obvious that the person involved had great difficulty reading and transcribing the documents.

It is likely also that familiarity with names and places was low and so what we see is the best that the transcriber could make out of what they were trying to read.

Crikey, I even found Quick in the Census the other night indexed as 'Inick' and had been wondering why I could not find the particular family.

The name Andrew does not appear in the 1641 Protestation Returns for Sennen, St Levan, Sancreed or St Buryan as a Christian name and a dearth of records for, particularly, Sennen and St Levan make it difficult to determine its origins in your Michell family.
However it did appear in succeeding generations so must have had some importance at the time.

And Andrew having been a 'mariner' amongst farmers and miners is not really unusual and you will find that many families of the time would have been similar given that Cornwall is a very small place surrounded by one heckuva lot of water.

And St Levan has a maritime history - probably more so with fishing from Penberth Cove but also with the famous Logan Rock.

[londoner]

Re will of Andrew 1766 - brother William probably the one who died 1743 hence no mention in will . No bp for John except s/o Robert,

[tonymitch]

Was Elizabeth 1705 married 2x? The Glasson Will implies that she married Thomas Nicholas, but the Mitchell Will has her marrying Steven Bennatts. Who is correct, are we talking about 2 different Elizabeths or did either Thomas or Stephen die? This is all very confusing.....

[Cornish Terrier]

Tony - I think you will find Elizabeth of 1705 marrying only Stephen Bennetts.

The reference to Thomas Nicholas is, I believe, talking about a previous generation.

You will find mention of her as a sister in the Will of Joseph Glasson as referred to in this thread.

Ian

[tonymitch]

This is getting far to complicated and complex for me. Can anyone tell me if Margaret Paul, sister of Joseph and mother of James 1712, is aunt to Ann who married Simon in 1745?

Or, in other words did first cousins marry making Joseph, uncle of James 1712, also the father - in - law of Simon?

To further compound this, I have Joseph's wife as Margaret Rawling. Has anyone any info on her and is she related to Jane Rawling (b 1682) who married Thomas Oats (b 1679 d 1723)?