Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 23, 2007 12:50:16 GMT -5
For those of you who have not yet decided to search out family in Morvah this section has been set up to encourage you to do so. I would like to thank our new member - Kima378 - for providing the catalyst and it is hoped some more of you will get involved in it as Morvah, although a very tiny Parish, is very, very interesting as far as family history is concerned and is, also, a very nice little place itself.
We look forward to current and new members getting involved here.
And I might mention that if any of you have family in St Just-in-Penwith, Madron, Gulval and Zennor then you will more likely than not find some possible connections in Morvah. Sancreed, Sennen and other Parishes around the West have also had connections with Morvah so if you are lost - please call.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 23, 2007 13:13:31 GMT -5
And now Kim - Welcome again (but this time to the area where we hope all might happen.) ;D
Firstly - I do hope you get to spend your week or so down around Morvah. You will be not far from the Tinner's Arms at Zennor - must see and visit and - have a drink - I hope David Care still has it but it is possible he may not as I was there back in 1995. However, you could always get a good ale and a good ploughmans or fishermans lunch there.
Morvah is not far away and you should also visit the Gurnard's Head Inn which is also nearby. ;D Again, when I was there, they made the most magnificent fisherman's broth I have ever tasted.
By the way, I have been through part of Kent also.
However, to some assistance and/or advice.
In some ways it is good that your are a novice in regards to family history is it can make help a little easier on occasions and I am glad you have joined this site because it was set up to help all.
First thing is first - a family tree handed down by another member of the family can be very good and helpful and is a wonderful thing to receive, particularly if you are just starting your interest and require some basis to work from.
I can tell you that I basically started with a Postcard showing the 'Arms of Trewhella' which I decided to pursue to see if they belonged to us. Turns out - NO - they were granted to the TREWOLLA family of Gorran, Cornwall, back in 1573 but the direct heirs did not keep up the pedigree (or something similar) so no one (as I understand) has the 'right' to where those Arms.
But I got into things anyway and now just keep on going which is how I am able to try and help others. I have also had information handed down that was compiled by other older family members and there is one example that is still used by some people today which I have 'proved beyond doubt' to be incorrect in many respects. I place no fault at the door of old Ben, my grandmother, or anyone else who initially supplied me with 'what they knew' but it is a fact that there were errors.
The initial work that old Ben wrote is, to my knowledge, still used by some Trewhella researchers as their guide and I have had, on numerous occasions, been in a situation where I have had to correct people and redirect their research in a more correct direction.
This is reading like a lecture.
I have found over the years that it is best to try and corroborate any information received to ensure the correctness of it. It is obviously much easier these days as we have much more available to us.
AND - the online part of this is extremely useful - but the main thing is that there is now much more original material available that is able to be, eventually, placed online.
Let me leave things at that for now so I might have a little better look at what you have sent me. I can see already that I have a couple of things to search out and I believe I may now have PR information to check against for some of them.
Meantime - if you are descended from Alice Harry of Morvah then there is a very big chance that you and I are distant cousins. ;D
Will try to work more on this over the next day or so and will be looking forward to your further input here.
Looking on the 1891 Cenus (on one at ancestry.co and also genealogy site) have double checked about Wilfred Holman. He is down as Winfred J Holman (son) of James Holman who is an iron-ore minor and Margaret Holman (Margaret Holman born 1855 in Morvah) This I believe to be Margaret Curnow born in Morvah. Living with them is Alice Curnow (mother in law) who is aged 78 born in Morva, Cornwall circa 1813. This I believe to be Alice Harry. In the census are also Edith (8), Ethel (a) and William G Holman. I recall my Mum talking about her great Aunty Ethel and Edith - so conclude that this is indeed the family. Will keep on checking but feel that my descendants definitely come from morva - how exciting.
Where did the given name Walter come from? From memory the first time it appears in this family is as a name of a son of Hannibal Harry at the end of the 1600s. Hannibals' wife from memory was Jane. I do not know her surname. As the name does not appear in the Morvah Harry family prior to that date, I was wondering whether it provides a clue as to who Jane's family was. I noticed that Walters appear in the Noy family, and also in the Lanyons of Madron, although I could not find a christening of a Jane to either a Walter Lanyon or a Walter Noy on the IGI (which amittedly may not mean much of course). Are there any other local families that used that given name in the second half of the 1600s?
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 25, 2007 14:01:40 GMT -5
Firstly for Kim - I have found the family in the 1891 Census at Millom in Cumberland and am now trying to do a little work on it. Along with mother-in-law Alice Curnow there were four children with James and Margaret.
And yes - I believe you have found the right family as far as Alice Curnow is concerned.
Interesting thing here is that this family was a very long way from home. (I know it is not far when you consider other relatives who want to South Africa, America, Chile, New Zealand and Australia but ...
I now know that James Holman and Margaret Curnow were married in the Bootle Registration District in Cumberland in the 1st Qtr of 1881. Bootle itself is not a long way from Millom so there are some interesting points to consider. A girl from Morvah and a man from West Devon marry in Cumberland which is way up North. In 1891 Alice Curnow, now a widow, is up there with them.
I now also know that Alice Curnow died in the first qtr. of 1900 in the Bootle R.D. in Cumberland at the age of 86.
The frustrating thing here is that I cannot find, so far, a death record for Thomas Bottrell Curnow (husband of Alice) who had obviously died prior to 1891.
But I have now just found that Thomas was definitely still alive at the time of the 1881 Census - he and Alice were then living in Millom, Cumberland.
Stop Looking - I just found him. ;D
Registered as 'Thomas Curnow' - that was the problem.
Thomas Curnow died Bootle R.D. 1st qtr. 1883 aged 72.
Wilfred James Holman was born 4th qtr 1881. Edith M - cannot readily identify a birth for her just now. William George Holman born 4th qtr. 1887. Ethel May Holman born 3rd qtr. 1890 Bootle R.D.
That is all I will try and do on this part for now so I hope it helps.
And now for TRENCROM's query.
The first Walter HARRY I have recorded was baptised at Morvah in 1695 and buried at Morvah in 1764. He married Jane Edwards at Paul in 1727 and had four children that I currently know of.
Walter's father was William HARRY but I am yet to find the name of his mother.
William HARRY, in turn, was son of Hannibal and Jane HARRY for whom I have never found a record of marriage but I do have records of six children for them. (Including William).
This Hannibal was son of Richard HARRY and Jone (nee TREMBATH).
About the best I can do at 0500 hrs but also hope it helps.
Thanks cornish terrier. I was indeed referring to Walter, the son of Richard, but for some reason I had Hannibal's name in my head. I am thinking that the name "Walter" may have come from the family of Jane, wife of William the son of Hannibal.
thanks Cornish Terrior for all your help; I have made contact with the son of my Aunty who gave me our family tree all those years ago; and have told him about the link to Morvah plus all the help you have all given me. Where would you recomend I now look for researching earlier records now? Is there anything else on line I could look at do you think for some background? I too thought that it was strange the family moved up to Millorn, Cumberland, perhaps this is a time when the tin mines ended??? Perhaps they had family in the North anyway? will investigate this further, but once again thank you so much Kim
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 26, 2007 12:32:17 GMT -5
Kim - this is what the site was designed for and I am more than pleased to help as best I can.
As for a reason for families moving from Cornwall to the likes of Cumberland - it seems to have become a bit of a pattern and I believe it was mostly due to the start of the decline of mining in Cornwall and the possibilities of better opportunity in other mining areas of England.
I know that some of my Trewhella family went to Wales, others ended up in London and I have one Trewhella in my database who was up around Liverpool (I think) before going to New Zealand and then across to Australia.
I have records of parts of the Trewhella (sic.) family going to Russia in about 1813 (including later correspondence and Wills of members of the family).
In the mid-1800's two Trewhella brothers went to Italy and were building railroads.
Then there is America, Chile and even Mexico involved.
I will try and work on this some more for you but it can't be tonight I am sorry.
Not sure just exactly what you require as far as further online stuff is concerned in regards to your query but, as far as 'background' information is concerned I would suggest the easiest way would be to use any 'search engine' and type in 'MORVAH' as your search.
You will possibly find a lot of irrelevant stuff but if you check each item I am sure you will find something to help.
Keep me informed how you go and we will try and get some more of this family into line for you.
Just to add to the confusion the IGI has a Polly Harry d/o William and Elizabeth bapt at Paul 19 May 1819 - Polly used as an alternative to Mary (there was one in our family)
But it looks as though she married in 1845 to William Mann so we can rule her out. Even though in 1851 The Chapel family are in Sancreed and Mary's place of birth is given as Paul and not Morvah.
The Mary Harry b in Sancreed is also still around in 1851 and still single : HO107; Piece: 1919; Folio: 407; Page: 12; working as a servant in the household of a Gwennap family.
BUT in 1871 Mary wife of Joseph says she was born in Sancreed - and in 1861 she says Sennen ..... AAAGH
The only other piece of evidence is from 1861, 1871 and1881 where an unmarried Mary Harry b 1819 is working in various households in Sennen and her place of birth is given as Sennen. In 1861 and in the same household is a Catherine Harry apparently age 20. William & Mary of Morvah had a daughter Catherine but she should have been 26. If this is the same Catherine then it could also be the Morvah Mary.
Sorry not to be more conclusive. It seems the harder you look the more confusing and conflicting the evidence becomes.
One more for the pot (sorry) Second child of Joseph and Mary was William Harris Chappell,bapt.5th.jan.1845 at Sennen. Could this indicate that Mary was the Mary Harris, bapt.20th.mar.1818 at Sennen. I would have thought that this is a better possiblity. Roy
Thanks folks, especially Roy who came up with the link that was staring me in the face. William Harris Chappel was indeed the second child of Joseph Chappel and Mary Harry. He also happens to be my great, great grandfather (see what I mean about staring me in the face?).
That then led back to Mary Harris baptised 20 March 1818 in Sennen. The Sennen link is crucial as the 1861, 1881 and 1891 censuses all have Mary claiming to be born in Sennen (though the 1851 census has her born in Paul, the 1871 in Sancreed, and the 1901 census in Madron. Go figure.).
The other link is that the William Harris who was the father of this Mary was a labourer. Mary's marriage certificate has her father William as a labourer, but this wasn't linking to either of the other Marys that I mentioned in my first post, one of whose father was a yeoman of Sancreed and the other's was a farmer of Trembath, Morvah.
So all-in-all, the Mary Harris, daughter of William Harris (labourer) and Elizabeth Chapple (coincidentally) seems to be the right fit.
And Cornish Terrier, as fate would have it, the 1861 census has William (Mary's father) living with his second wife (Honor) at Treeve, Sennen just two doors down from the Trewhella family: 29-year-old William, an omnibus proprieor, his wife Martha, and their three little ones, William T, Martha E, and Mary H. It's a small (online) world.
Thanks for your help folks. If only all mysteries were as easily solved.