Father of Emblin who married George Michell in 1645, as discussed in another thread.
John's will, written in 1654 and proven in 1657 bequeaths Emblin £10. "John son of George Michell" received 20 shillings, George's 3 daughters received 20 shillings apiece”, while the testator's sons Thomas and Cornelius received £5 each, with other bequests being made to Thomas' two daughters and son, and to the poor of Zennor and of Crowan.
The reference to Crowan has me intrigued. It could indicate that the Phillips family originated from the latter parish
There is no mention of John's wife in his will, so she must have predeceased him. However, the will of a Richard Rowe (or Rawe) of Zennor, dated 1637, refers to his sisters Jane wife of William Thomas and Joan wife of John "Phillipp", and to John's son Thomas. Another attached document shows that John was granted the administration of Richard's estate in 1647 during the minority of Richard's two daughters Jacquett and Zenobia.
I am not aware of any other candidate for the John Phillips referred to here, and on that basis I have concluded that the mother of Emblin has to be this Joan Rowe. This in turn will account for the occurence of the name "Joan" amongst the family of George and Emblin.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 10, 2007 10:05:54 GMT -5
I reckon I can give you 'full marks' so far. Seems you have pretty much arrived at the same conclusions as I did several years ago.
The Crowan scenario is certainly interesting and is one (different Wills and different Parishes) that I have seen before on a number of occasions.
There were certainly Phillips families at and around Crowan but the question is - did John Phillips come from Zennor and have associations at Crowan or was he originally from Crowan and settled in Zennor.
Crowan PR's and BT's do not, from what I have seen, help us very much here so we need to tread warily and leave open all possibilities.
I will throw in a few things here for your perusal:-
Zennor PR's show the following baptism:-
__hn son of Matthew PHILLIP December 1607
The name is probably 'John' but I would suggest it unlikely that it is the man who married Joane Row as that marriage, to my reckoning, had to be sometime before 1625.
It does, however, show that the Phillips family was involved in Zennor at least that far back.
Matthew Phillips left a Will in 1628 at Zennor in which he named son Thomas (with three children). A deposition regarding this Will was signed by Matthew's son, James.
From my previous research I had determined that Matthew also had a daughter Phillippa who married William BISHOP and that the John bp. at Zennor in 1607 was his son.
This would mean that the 'John PHILLIPS' as the subject of this thread is of a different, but probably related family.
And here things become even more interesting.
James PHILLIPS left a Will in 1646. I believe this James to be the son of Matthew, particularly given that he had a son named Matthew.
It is also likely that this is the same James Phillips who was hanged by Cromwell.
We can debate that part of things later on - but for now, the interesting point is that, in his Will, this James left 'two shillings and ten pence' to the poor of Phillack.
I found a baptism for a James s/o Matthew Phillips at Phillack in the IGI some years ago (25th March 1600).
But I now have reason to think that date is incorrect.
I will try to outline that part of things very soon but first have to say that my previous research indicated that the name 'Matthew Phillips' did not resurface at Phillack until 1776.
Here is what I can find now that 'may be' a possible connection and is taken from the Transcript of the Phillack Parish Register Online:-
Phillack Baptisms Joane Phillippe d/o James bp. 12th August 1580 John Phillippe s/o James bp. 25th February 1582 Katheryn Philip d/o James bp. 13th March 1583 Thomas Phillippe s/o James bp. 26th September 1585 Agnes Phillippe d/o James bp. 6th March 1587 Priscilla Phillippe d/o James bp. 1st January 1591 Pascha Phillip d/o James bp. 17th Novmember 1593 Anne Phillipe d/o James bp. 12th October 1595 Pascus Phillip d/o James bp. 15th April 1598 JAMES PHILIP s/o MATTHEW bp. 21st March 1599
The next mention of this family in Phillack Baptisms is not until 1620 when Anna d/o Gregorie Phillipps (Rector) is baptised.
15th November 1579 James PHILLIPPE m. Katheryn, d. of Thomas MARTEN
Phillack Burials 1577-
6th April 1585 Thomas Marten 27th November 1594 Priscilla d/o James PHILLIPPE 30th August 1602 James Philips 4th February 1607 Thomas Phelyp 6th March 1617 Anne d/o James Phillipp
Next Burial is in 1624 for a daughter of Gregorie Phillips.
The fact that James Phillips left money to the poor of Phillack indicates some connection there and I think it probable that it was he who was baptised there in 1599.
Conclusions from the above (combined with your own note) would be:-
The Crowan connection is certainly a strong possibility, especially given the bequest to the poor of that Parish. James s/o of Matthew is 'almost' certainly the person baptised at Phillack in 1599. (ref. bequest to Phillack poor)
The family of Matthew Phillips has relocated to Zennor sometime very soon after 1600.
The James Phillips with children bp. at Phillack is 'very likely' a brother to Matthew.
So - is the John Phillips of the 1654 Will the man baptised at Phillack in 1582.
It would, because of his age, seem to be less than likely (but not impossible) if he was the man who married Joane Row.
Whichever way we look at it it would seem that John and Matthew Phillips were most certainly related - but not, I think, as brothers.
The ROW side is also interesting.
Richard Row (Will of 1637) is, I believe, the man who married Agnes Walcomb at Zennor in 1617.
Whilst I have, so far, been unable to determine the fate of Agnes I believe that Richard had at least one other sibling.
And this was Margery Row who married a Roger CHRISTOPHER sometime before 1620 and, presumably at Zennor.
I think we need to find out if there are any records available for Crowan (in any form) prior to about 1676 so that we might have a 'reasonable' chance of proving some of these connections.
Other than that we need to pursue every Will relating to the combined Parishes to see if something might be mentioned to help us.
I think I will leave this for now and give us all time to refresh.
Reckon it will also give you a little more to ponder about.
Anyone else who might have something to add here - PLEASE DO.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 10, 2007 11:42:58 GMT -5
Trencrom - I may have seemed a little facetious in my PM for which I do apologise.
But here is something else for you to add to the puzzle.
Roger CHRISTOPHER died c. 1640 (presumably Zennor)
Inventory of Estate (L31.17s.11.) taken in 1640 by John PHILLIPS and Nicholas BOLITHO. Named in the Will of his brother-in-law RICHARD ROW, in 1637 with son Nicholas, daughter Margaret and 'the rest of the children of said roger'. (My quote) - One of these may have been Elizabeth who married at Zennor in 1649 to [____] Perry. Another may have been George Christopher who signed the Protestation Return at Zennor in 1641.
John Philips, son of Mathew would seem to be the man who died shortly before Oct 1639. His admon is not extant, only his inventory. This of course, is the father of Francis Philips, whose daughter Alice married Martin Trewhella I.
Finding his brother James at Phillack is very interesting. I never paid too much attention to James' will or the Phillack reference, so thanks for pointing that out.
At first I thought Matthew might be the father of John who was in turn the father of Emblin, but I checked my notes again last night and I concluded, as you did, that we are looking at two different Johns here. In part this was because (and I am going on memory tonight) I found the christening of Francis and it gives his parents names as John Philip and Elner his wife. This was from memory in Sept 1625. However in the marriages for the same year we find a few months later (Jan) John Philip and "Johan" (no surname). This is surely the John Phillips-Joan Row marriage. There is however no burial entry at Zennor for that year for Elner.
In part this was because (and I am going on memory tonight) I found the christening of Francis and it gives his parents names as John Philip and Elner his wife. This was from memory in Sept 1625. However in the marriages for the same year we find a few months later (Jan) John Philip and "Johan" (no surname). This is surely the John Phillips-Joan Row marriage. There is however no burial entry at Zennor for that year for Elner.
Hence we must be looking at two separate Johns.
You have a christening for Francis?
Could you look this one up please - I would be delighted to have the info. I had estimated Francis' birth at ca. 1627, so this would not be too far off.
Odd however, that the mother would be an Elner (Eleanor) - Francis had a whole passle of daughters, but never used that name for any of them.
Joan Row would have to be the wife of the 'other' John (your man of 1654) as Richard Row's will specifically mentions him having a son Thomas, and your John's will shows this to be so. Also good to finally know where Cornelius fits in!
Anyway, looking forward to more detail on the 1625 christening.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2007 13:54:55 GMT -5
I reiterate Zenobia's comments - Thanks once again Trencrom for this information.
But now I have some work to do. Looks like I may have to rearrange some of my database as it is beginning to appear that I may have erred on a couple of occasions.
I will check through your other recent notes and then get back on to this one and see what corrections are required.
But there is an interesting point still to be made!
We know that Francis Phillips was named in the Will of his grandfather Matthew in 1628.
Francis' approximated birth year coincided 'quite neatly' with the 1625/6 marriage of John Phillip and Jone (from the Transcript of Marriages from Zennor 1611-1673 at the Society of Genealogists that I received some time ago).
We now know, courtesy of yourself, that Francis was the son of John and ELNER for whom we have no marriage details. And, as Zenobia has pointed out, Francis did not use the name Elner/Eleanor amongst any of his daughters.
The interesting thing I wish to point out is from the Will of Francis himself:-
"I give and bequeath unto my daughter JONE PHILIPS the sume of ffourty shillings to be paid within six monthes provided shee goe from me to live and not otherwise."
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2007 16:25:42 GMT -5
Another point of interest while I am working out the best way to tackle some of this Phillips stuff.
Some years ago I received the Transcript of a Church Rate for Zennor dated about 1613. This was apparently sent by Jean Nankervis (of Wicca Farm, Zennor) to John Tanner who forwarded it to me. (It is transcribed from a photocopy of the original which is held at the Devon Record Office.)
The only Phillips names I can find are:-
Matthew PHILLEP 2 shillings and 6 pence John PHILLEP 10 pence
Other names of possible interest in this particular thread might be:-
Rychard DAVY Nicholas BERIMAN John CHRISTOPHER Thomas BERIMAN Thomas MYCHELL Roger BISHOP Roger CHRISTOPPUER
It seems likely that Matthew and John PHILLEP (above) are more than probably brothers with Matthew being the elder of the two.
More work to be done and then I will post further.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2007 21:53:08 GMT -5
Dear Cousin - seems I did not elucidate myself properly with reference to the parentage of Francis Phillips.
I did not intend to imply a second marriage for the father of Francis Phillips but was merely outlining the reasoning for my earlier, now erroneous, conclusions that the John Phillips/Joan Row marriage was that of Francis' parents.
But the fact that Francis named a daughter JONE (who seems to have incurred her father's ire) was interesting as is the implication that he never named a daughter Eleanor.
Hmmmmm - just how do we know that Francis never named a daughter Eleanor? - after all, the Zennor records are far from complete. There may well have been an Eleanor in the family who was unmarried and died prior to the making of Francis' Will although it is a little strange that the name does also not appear among the children of any of Francis Phillips family.
Also interesting that Francis Phillips named daughters JONE and JANE and specified them as such in his Will.
There is, though, still a minor problem to solve.
Whichever way we look at things the father of Francis Phillips was married no later than 1625.
Matthew Phillips named 'Francis s/o John Phillips' in his Will of 1628 and the indication is that this John was Matthew's son.
The problem is with the 'transcribed' baptism at Zennor in December 1607 for John s/o Matthew Phillips.
This would mean that John was maybe only just 18 when he married.
The chronology of baptisms for 1607 at Zennor shows that this is probably correct - but I have not seen the actual documents myself.
It also appears it was the son of Matthew who died about 1639.
Right - let's see what I can do with your Zennor Marriages request.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 13, 2007 0:41:39 GMT -5
Can't answer that question but here is the preamble that accomponied the list.
From:- John C Tanner
I do not know whether you have seen this. It is a Church Rate of about 1613 for Zennor. I transcribed it from a photocopy of the original which is at Devon Record Office which was sent to me by Jean Nankervis.