|
Post by citroenlady on Dec 20, 2016 20:04:52 GMT -5
Hello Everyone! I am the gt. granddaughter of Mary Ann Trewhella (b. 1868 Redruth) daughter of William Trewella (1822-1892) and Elizabeth Hocking (1825). Mary Ann's story is rather complicated (an understatement) but I really would love to learn a little more about this branch of my family. UnfortumatelyI have hit a brick wall quite early on. CT, apologies if I should have posted in another thread, rather than start a new one, so please merge if you need to I see there are Trewellas marrying Redruth Hockings on another thread here, so it seems a bit of a family tradition. I also took a DNA test via Ancestry and there is certainly a lot of Hocking DNA in my make-up. Intriguingly, though, The 'Shared Ancestor' interface that they use is showing Mary Ann as a sibling of a lady who is the daughter of a Hosking rather than a Hocking . This Hosking family emigrated to Australia - as did some of the Trewellas, but whether that is merely a coincidence, I have no idea. I think what I am trying to say, very long-windedly, is HELP! Thanks in advance to anyone prepared to do a bit of head scratching over this one
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 21, 2016 4:12:30 GMT -5
Starting a new thread for this query is probably a good idea as it should hopefully reduce our chances of becoming confused! Probably the easiest way to work on this problem is for you to start with specific questions about Mary Ann and her family. Finding answers to those questions will help determine which way to go next. I know that Mary Ann Trewella married Henry Sweet at Illogan on 30th June 1888 but I had not searched for children up to now. That is all part of an upcoming review of my information. Some parts of this family are a little complicated but with more information collected over the last few years I hope to be able to sort out most of the confusing issues. There are some things however that may remain unknown including the details of marriage for the parents of William Trewella. I know that his mother was Grace and that she was born at Redruth sometime about 1788 but I have never been able to find the marriage which I calculate to have occurred about 1822. But let's work on first things first - you provide some questions and I will start searching for answers. CT
|
|
|
Post by citroenlady on Dec 21, 2016 12:11:29 GMT -5
Thanks for replying so quickly CT! First of all I think I should tell you what I know about Mary Ann and her circumstances. You are quite correct in that she married Henry Sweet. That marriage produced two children; Maria Mabel Sweet (birth registered Oct/Nov/Dec of 1888 - year of marriage. ) Two years later Sydney John Sweet came along. The family appears in the 1891 census erroneously transcribed as "Severt" living at Barncoose Terrace. By 1901 things are very different. Mary Ann is living with Samuel Trethowan (my gt. grandfather) as house keeper with two small children; Janie (aged 2) and Samuel T (aged 8 months.) Maria Mabel is found living with her father Henry, grandfather William and Aunt Fanny and Sidney is registered as an inmate on the TS Mount Edgcumb in Devonport (a training ship for wayward and destitute boys.) Sidney died, aged 11 from Pneumonia and Tuberculosis of the lungs in the summer of 1901 Samuel and Mary Ann went on to have another six children, one of whom was my grandmother, Lottie. One, who I believe was named Francis, died as a toddler. I can find no trace of Maria Mabel. She seems to have completely disappeared. I really would love to know what happened to her. I know the Sweet family had relatives in Devon, and I seem to remember that my grandmother, Lottie, told me that her mother had been a milliner. There is a Sweet family in Devonport who were milliners, but I can't find a paper connection. This is a sad story for several reasons. Henry Sweet (according to my grandmother Lottie) went 'away' to work. I always got the impression it was somewhere abroad, but wherever it was, he came back with Syphillis. Thankfully Mary Ann was not infected. She described to Lottie how she "burned every scrap of bedding" when she found out. That was obviously why she left him, but my grandmother never knew anything about her half siblings Maria and Sidney. She only knew that her parents had never married after my father was born, and his birth was registered. Mary Ann's children with Samuel were given the name 'Trethowan' as a second Christian name, but were registered with the surname of 'Sweet'. I have a copy of the wedding certificate for William Trewella and Elizabeth Hocking dated January 18th 1847. "William Trewella" son of John Trewella (both masons) and Elizabeth, daughter of William Hocking, miner. Both bride and groom made their mark and the wedding was witnessed by John Trewella and William Brooks. Now, the rest might just be useful, but I cannot verify it. One of Mary Ann's sons, Wilfred Trethowan Sweet, emigrated to Canada in 1926. I met him and stayed with him for three weeks in 1990, when he was 86 or 87 years old. He still had a prodigious memory though! I overheard him talking to one of his daughters about Mary Ann. He told her, with great confidence, that Mary Ann had been a Quaker. I remember it well because, at the time, it was news to me! I have since found out that many of the Trethowans were Quakers, so whether there was some confusion involved I don't know, but it would certainly be worth checking Quaker records, I think. Mary Ann Trewhella was a formidable lady. She was extremely tall - about 6' and her last child, my Uncle Morley, was 14lbs at birth. His son was 6'5" tall. All Mary Ann's children that I met had extremely large frames, far larger than average. She died when I was 4 years old, in 1954. I distinctly remember being taken to see her on her deathbed (she lived with my grandmother, Lottie) and after that I remember going to see her grave, covered with fresh flowers and wreaths. A photograph exists recording that event. Any information anyone can add to this would be very gratefully received. I simply cannot get past William Trewella and Grace (1788.)
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 21, 2016 15:25:38 GMT -5
Thankyou for this information which is all new to me. I have an electrician coming soon to do a bit of work so don't have much time but I will read your post again later on tonight after I have had a little sleep. First thing I will try and do is to track down the birth registrations and, if possible, baptism records for all the children of Mary Ann and then I will go over my Trewella information again so that I can fill in some gaps for you. In the meantime I have one query - would you be able to scan the marriage certificate of William Trewella and Elizabeth Hocking and send me a copy please? If that is possible then please let me know in a return post and I will pass on my email address. If you can do the scan then please ensure the entire certificate is scanned. I am gradually trying to create an index of all Illogan and Redruth marriages from 1837 to around 1900 as these are not currently available without a trip to the CRO. I presume that you actually mean JOHN and Grace - i.e. the parents of William Trewella? As previously mentioned I cannot help with Grace at the moment but I am reasonably confident that I have the Trewella line back to a marriage at Camborne in 1686. (I will work through everything later and verify that before posting the information.) The 1686 marriage is currently a dead end but I do have some thoughts on where the line may go before that. Unfortunately I have not been able to find anything to prove my theory. CT
|
|
|
Post by citroenlady on Dec 21, 2016 16:40:04 GMT -5
Hi CT! Yes, I can certainly send you a copy of the wedding certificate, and yes again - I did, of course, mean John and Grace, not William. My brain said one thing and my fingers typed something else..... I also forgot to mention in my last post that my grandmother Lottie told me that the Trewhelas hailed from Constantine, originally, but I think she may have confused them with the Trethowans who certainly did! I have no problem tracing that line back, thank goodness. If you would let me have your email address, I'll send that scan to you. I'll also put together a list of Mary Ann's children, with registration details where possible, if that would help. ETA: I have used the only photo I have of Mary Ann as my avatar. She can keep an eye on things
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 21, 2016 18:56:19 GMT -5
That's great, thankyou. I have sent you a Personal Message with my email address and I will look forward to seeing the certificate. Perhaps a scan of Mary Ann's photo also if that is possible please? Oh yes, and any details you have on Mary Ann's children would also be welcome. I have started checking the FreeBMD Indexes and have found a couple of burials so it will be interesting to compare notes. The Trewellas certainly didn't come from Constantine and off the top of my head I am not sure that there were ever any of the family who were born, married or died in that Parish. Your line was at Illogan and Redruth mostly but were at Camborne during that late 1600s and probably early 1700s. I think there is probably a connection to the family at Crowan and I tentatively think there may be a connection back to my family at Towednack. That is the part I can't find any concrete evidence for. Until later, CT
|
|
|
Post by citroenlady on Dec 21, 2016 19:14:19 GMT -5
I will email right away!
I'm not surprised that the family didn't come from Constantine. Lottie didn't have the interest in genealogy that I have, and I'm sure she got muddled with her father's connections to that area.
I've had a tentative look for records of baptism and I'm not sure there are any. I can only find civil registrations! what I did find, however, was the record of a birth and death of an Elizabeth Trethowan Sweet in the first quarter of 1899! I think Jane (or Janie as she was always known) must have had a twin. That's quite a surprise because my father was also a twin who had a brother who died at birth. I cannot find an entry for the birth of Jane Trethowan Sweet, although all the others are present and correct. Mary Ann DOES state on the 1911 census that she had given birth to 9 children, 3 of whom had died, i.e. Sydney, Arthur and baby Elizabeth. I suddenly realised I had only 8 children listed, so I checked, and found Elizabeth. Anyway, this is what I have found. I remembered the other young child who died as Francis. It was, in fact, Arthur. Age is doing nothing for my memory!
Maria Mabel Sweet - Oct/Nov/Dec 1888. Civil registration only.
Sydney John Sweet - Apr/May/Jun 1890 died 19th July 1901. Civil registration only.
Jane Trethowan Sweet - 1899 (nowhere to be found!) BUT Elizabeth Trethowan Sweet - Jan/Feb/Mar 1899. Birth and death recorded for same quarter. Civil registration only.
Samuel Trethowan Sweet - 1900
Arthur Trethowan Sweet - 1902, d. Oct/Nov/Dec 1904
Wilfred (Bill) Trethowan Sweet - 1905
Lottie Trethowan Sweet - 21st March 1906 - 8th February 1987
Francis Morley Trethowan Sweet - 1910
Hope this is of some help! I haven't checked with Pallot, but I will be surprised if any baptisms are found. Just a hunch....
Thanks again for your help, CT!
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 22, 2016 5:42:10 GMT -5
That is close to the same list that I came up with when I checked through FreeBMD early this morning. However, there is one significant difference! I found no indexed death record for Elizabeth Trethowan Sweet and after having looked again just now at an image of the original index for March 1899 there is definitely no such entry. My first thoughts when I found Elizabeth but not Jane was that Elizabeth Trethowan Sweet is actually Jane. That of course would leave you with one child short ..... but I think I can remedy that situation. There is an entry for a Lily Sweet born September Qtr 1893 and a death entry for the same child also in September 1893. I have copies of the Illogan burials for that period and found the following entry:- Barncoose Terrace was where the family was living in 1891 so I suspect Lily is probably a child of Henry and Mary Ann. This then would be the ninth child if the entry for Elizabeth should indeed be Jane. However, just to be certain of our facts could you please recheck that death registration for Elizabeth Trethowan Sweet and note the details. The Registration District (I expect Redruth) the Qtr (March), Volume (should be 5c) and the Page Number. Double-checking this information will help confirm if my theory about Elizabeth and Jane is correct. I'm afraid I haven't got much done on the Trewella side of things as I got sidetracked trying to correctly Elizabeth Hocking. After a couple of hours it was looking like she must have been the daughter of William and Ann Hocking but I finally found that this family had emigrated to South Australia in 1848. The family was listed merely as 'William Hocking, wife and four children' but there was also an Elizabeth and an Amelia on the same voyage. Given these latter girls would have been over 15 they would have been listed separately anyway. After further searching I found that Elizabeth was actually baptized at Redruth 12th June 1824 daughter of William Hocking and Susannah Roberts who married at Illogan 7th June 1818. William Hocking was buried at Illogan 8th March 1841 age 48 and Susannah and her surviving children can be found in 1841 living at Broad Lane. If you take a look at the marriage certificate for Elizabeth you will note that both she and William Trewella were resident at Broad Lane at the time of marriage. The other interesting thing here is that, although not yet proven, it appears likely that William's mother may also have been a Trewella! His parents may possibly be William Hocking and Ann Trewheela who married at Redruth 4th November 1780. I will try and do some more on this tomorrow. CT
|
|
|
Post by citroenlady on Dec 22, 2016 10:20:39 GMT -5
I could have sworn that last night I found a birth AND death entry for Elizabeth Trethowan Sweet. Today I can only see the birth entry! I think I have to agree with you, CT, that Elizabeth is indeed Jane. Why they registered her as Elizabeth, yet called her Janie I have no idea. Every other child was known by its given name. Oh well.... Agreed. There seems little doubt that these are the same Trewellas. Actually, this is very interesting. I am PMing you with another Australian connection. Let me know what you make of it! Many thanks, CL.
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 22, 2016 13:03:45 GMT -5
You had me worried for a while with mention of a death entry but I think I can rest easy now! The best way to solve this problem would be via the birth certificate or, if it can be found, a baptism entry but I would not advocate spending money on this right now. It is quite possible that an error was made when creating the GRO Index and it may also be possible that the child was registered as Elizabeth and later baptized as Jane. Let's for now just pencil in that Elizabeth and Jane are probably the same person. As for the possible earlier Trewella link - if I am correct then I think you will find yourself another new cousin on this forum in the person of Zibetha. CT
|
|
|
Post by citroenlady on Dec 22, 2016 13:42:06 GMT -5
Thanks, CT. As an only child of two only children, I am always delighted to find cousins!
|
|
|
Post by zibetha on Dec 22, 2016 22:03:15 GMT -5
You got my attention, CT when you mentioned the 1686 marriage at Camborne I have reviewed my workbook on my "Trewhela" line and did not find a John married to Grace. From further posts on this thread, I do have Ann Trewhela and William Hocking with children born at Illogan (I am sure that comes from another thread on this board.) It looks like I am your 8th cousin through the link to Elizabeth Hocking, Citroen Lady. I have not identified William Trewhella's parents, John and Grace, which might result in another connection. On the DNA side of the equation, I recently reviewed a match that would line up with your branch. I'm still working on it in case I relate to a different branch of my match's family. But, the Trewhela line is in first place right now To date, I have three matches with other descendants of my ancestors, Thomas Trewhela and Martha Blewett. My tree is private, so I don't see the DNA circles that you refer to. Ancestry did sample some shortly after I got my results, but I did not find any connections to my possible "common ancestors." I don't know how Ancestry DNA matches are generated. I have some "cousins" who should show up and don't, but it may be a matter of processing time. A third cousin of mine gifted me my test. He does not show up as a match on Ancestry.com, but when we uploaded our Ancestry DNA tests to gedmatch.com, we did indeed match. Glad to meet a new cousin, Zib
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 22, 2016 23:30:40 GMT -5
It is going to take more time than anticipated to check all of the records involved so I think the simplest solution for the time being is to give you all an idea of this Trewella line as I see it currently.
As previously stated, I have never been able to find a record of the marriage of John and Grace so don't know the identity of Grace. But I do have a line for John Trewella that I am reasonably confident about.
John Trewella died at Illogan in 1853 age 76 and according to the 1851 Census he was born at Illogan. Allowing for discrepancies in information in the Census and the fact that ages recorded in death and burial records are seldom exactly accurate along with the fact that baptisms often did not occur for several months and sometimes more than one or two years after birth the line currently looks like this:-
John son of William and Jenifer Trewela baptized 24th May 1778 Redruth
William Treweelor married Jane White 5th August 1769 Redruth
William son of William and Jane Trewheela baptized 15th November 1747 Camborne
William Trewheeler married Jane Hocking 5th January 1746 Illogan
William son of Mathie Tarweela baptized 14th July 1723 Camborne
Mathew Trewhelyea married Hanath Thomas 24th December 1716 Camborne
Mathew son of Charles Trewheller baptized 19th October 1689 Camborne
Charles Trewheelah married Margery Luke 5th June 1686 Camborne
(I have tried to show all the names as they appeared in the registers but two things to keep in mind - 1. I have at least 23 variations of the Trewhella surname in my database and 2. Jenifer (var.) and Jane were often interchanged so Jenifer wife of William Trewela and Jane White are the same person)
I suspect Charles is one of the four Trewheela grandsons named in the Will of Christopher Cock of Helston in 1678. The mother of these children is not named and so presumed to have pre-deceased her father. The father of the children is also not named in the Will but I strongly suspect he was the Christopher Trewheela who signed as a witness to the Will.
Beyond this is further conjecture based on the fact that the only other place where the name Christopher is found in the Trewhella family is at Towednack with the baptism of Christopher to my 7th great-grandparents Martin and Alice in 1702. The name then appeared in subsequent generations of this family down to the present day whilst the last Christopher in the Helston area died in 1764.
Looking through my records again and I have discovered one further family using the name Christopher. This was Thomas Trewhella and wife Mary Edwards at St Hilary in 1783 and 1784. This Thomas was the son of Thomas Trewheela and Catherine Barns who married at Perranuthnoe in 1754 and I suspect this Thomas may have been another son of Mathew Trewhella (Trewhelyea) and Hannah Thomas. Unfortunately I have not found a record of baptism for Thomas so cannot prove the link to Matthew but Thomas did appear to have only three children - Thomas, Catherine and Matthew. The first two children were named for their parents (Thomas Trewhella and Catherine Barns) and as I believe Catherine to have been the daughter of Pascoe Barnes and Sarah Jordan it then suggests that Matthew was named for his grandfather.
If Christopher is the key then there does seem to be some sort of link to the Towednack and St Ives area. Christopher Cock and Christopher Trewhella of Helston have their signiatures on a number of documents in those areas as well which adds further fuel but so far nothing can be actually proved.
CT
|
|
|
Post by zibetha on Dec 23, 2016 1:08:01 GMT -5
This all sounds good, CT.
I did find a land record (stored in old dead computer) that was between Christopher Cock on the lives of a number of daughters. 6, I believe, and dated before the birth of his youngest daughter, Mary. That would establish the existence of another daughter who might have been the wife of Christopher Trehwella. Also, my DNA match under research is to a descendant of Thomas Trewhela and Catherine Barnes.
Zib
|
|
|
Post by zibetha on Dec 23, 2016 2:11:33 GMT -5
I have sent a personal message to "Citroen Lady" regarding my DNA user names on Ancestry and Gedmatch.com. This could provide the key.
z
|
|