|
Post by sue on Dec 10, 2013 13:17:06 GMT -5
Having received good help with my last attempt to place a Mary Curnow, I'm back with another Mary... 4 July 1863 Gulval a Mary Curnow age 26, servant in Gulval daughter of Thomas a miner, marries Francis Gendall 26 son of John. (Witnesses Wm Allen, James Rowe.) They duly seem to baptize one child, William, 31 July 1864 Perranuthnoe before disappearing to me. I believe I have placed all my known Mary Curnows with a birth year 1834 - 1838ish and a father Thomas, except 3: - Mary Ann Curnow baptized 1836 Germoe to mystery Thomas c1805-1815, + widow Elizabeth Moyle, who show up age "30" & "40" respectively in Newtown Ludgvan 1841 (Carnow) with other apparent children Richard 5 & Thomas 3, then disappear. A Mary Ann Curnow born c1836 to a Thomas Curnow gets a mention on a couple of Rootsweb trees as marrying age 20 on 4 August 1856 Munno Para West Aus to a Robert Wait, begetting 10 little Waits in the Peachey Belt area. This "might" provide a future for this one.....
- Mary Curnow baptized 1834 St Ives to Thomas Curnow & Polly Jennings is visible through to 1861 when she is with Aunt Honor Jennings; she is a viable option for being a servant by 1863 & marrying Francis Gendall with an understated age....
- Or, Mary Curnow 1835 Towednack of Thomas Curnow & Jane Grenfell is at home Chylasson through to 1861 - quite feasible she then became a servant a few miles away, then married with a slightly understated age.....
I am stumped, & the name of the one known child, William, isn't helping me at all! Any bright ideas out there? Sue
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 10, 2013 20:51:20 GMT -5
Sue - I have not yet been able to find Francis and Mary Gendall post-marriage but based on baptismal records and the 1861 Census I have loosely concluded the likely identity of both. But there is one problem - the Mary Curnow I have identified is not one of the three on your list! Francis son of John (tin dresser) and Mary Anne Gendall of Tregaminion bp. 28th April 1839 Morvah Mary Anne daughter of Thomas (miner) and Alice Curnow of Trevean bp. 16th July 1836 Morvah (Thomas Bottrell Curnow and Alice Harry) Mary Anne was a servant at Madron in 1861 and her age would be 'just about' right while Francis Gendall was a couple of years younger than recorded in the marriage register. Will try and search a little more later on tonight. CT
|
|
|
Post by sue on Dec 11, 2013 9:34:29 GMT -5
That appears to be the only Francis Gendall with a father named John, so yes.
I take your point re Mary Ann 1836 daughter of Thomas Bottrell Curnow & Alice Harry being a prime candidate; my problem with her as a bride is that I believe 1881 she is up in the north-west of England, Millom Bootle, as a singleton seamstress resident with her brother John 1841 and his family, still with them in 1901.
So, if the marriage to Francis Gendall was this Mary Curnow, she had by 1881 reverted to her maiden name - & indeed I believe may have entered into a late marriage in 1905 up in Bootle still using that Curnow maiden name.
Looking again now at 1871, I believe this Mary Ann Curnow is a single tailoress in Penzance, boarding with a Mary Leggo who I suspect is the young lady who goes on to be the 2nd wife of Mary Ann's brother John.
So on balance, I'm thinking she should likely to be painted out of the picture for the Francis Gendall marriage as Mary Curnow.
Sue
|
|
|
Post by sue on Dec 12, 2013 14:39:14 GMT -5
Well blow me down - & no I haven't yet identified which Mary Curnow the bride 1863 was - but I've been wandering aimlessly in some Aus records since last night when I found that I had kindly been supplied earlier this year - thankyou CT - with the information that Thomas Curnow 1827 Towednack brother of one Mary Curnow candidate had his 2nd marriage 1868 Moonta at the home of a Thomas Gindall probably coincidence but worth pursuing I thought... And in the digitized Aus newspapers Trove, I have just hit a death announcement 4 October 1895 Beaconsfield Street, Fullerton Estate, Glen Osmond Road Adelaide for Francis Gendall age 55, beloved husband of Mary. So at least I know where this couple disappeared to then........ Sue
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 13, 2013 5:27:57 GMT -5
After a couple of fire calls and other things happening I have managed to get back to this! And I can see now why you might be a little confused. I just checked for children of Francis and Mary Gendall with particular emphasis on young William at Perranuthnoe in 1864. And after looking at an image of the original PR I see a note that was missed by the transcriber! The missing information in that baptism record states that William Gendall was 'five years of age' when baptised. That means that he was born around 1859 and so would probably be a child of a previous Francis and Mary Gendall who baptised two other children at Perranuthnoe in 1846 and 1849. (I have submitted an error report to the OPC to have that information added to the record.) Apart from that little snippet I have been able to confirm that Francis Gendall was the son of John Gendall and Mary Ann Ellis who married at Morvah 14th January 1837. Francis Gendall bp. Morvah 28th April 1839 appears to have been the first child. Next step, as I find time, is to try and find something else to help identify Mary Curnow. Hmmm - I just noted something interesting/peculiar in the South Australian Death Record for Francis Gendall. In the field labelled 'Status' is recorded 'N' which I understand to mean 'not married'! CT
|
|
|
Post by sue on Dec 13, 2013 7:32:06 GMT -5
Hmm, well yes, a lesson in being thorough in double checking information!! (I'd do an embarrassed smilie at this point, but I don't understand what most of the smilies on this version of the forum represent....) I see now that a Francis Gendall married a Mary Williams in 1838, so are thus the parents of Emma, Sally then William at Perranuthnoe. I beg forgiveness in failing to notice this other Francis Gendall family, on the grounds that I now see that both Freecen & FMP have them 1861 transcribed as Yendle....... As to death of Francis Gendall S Aus of the right age to be Mary Curnow's husband, "N" in death record 1895 is indeed mysterious, given the newspaper death announcement! I am beginning to think that without finding any children for the couple, Mary's identity may remain a mystery; perhaps I need to somehow find the other of my remaining Mary Curnow candidates for elimination... I do very much understand that it is The Fire Season for some months now, so will keep pottering around this end.... Sue
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 13, 2013 8:30:37 GMT -5
It is Summer and fire restrictions are in but really the fire season is yet to begin! But the gremlins are working because Since last Saturday night my brigade has been called out five times - train crash early Sunday morning, campervan fire Sunday night, grass fire along the freeway on Wednesday, grass fire threatening a shed this morning and then late this afternoon a call to help with a fire about 35 miles away!! But .............. where were we???! Oh yes! In light of this information the entry in the Death Index is most certainly odd. But equally curious is that I am yet to find any evidence of Mary in South Australia. I must say I have not looked at every resource as yet but a bit of work on the Gendall family was leading up to more searching in this part of the World. As I have opportunity I will try and do some more hunting. CT (BTW - I can't work out most of these smilies either!!! )
|
|
|
Post by zibetha on Dec 13, 2013 23:32:08 GMT -5
Hi, Sue,
I found some information on a subscription site that I think will help identify the right family: William Curnow, son of Thomas Curnow, married Jane Noye, daughter of Henry Noye on April 28, 1866 at the residence of Francis "Gandel" in East Moonta. I believe that gives you a third sibling.
Zibetha
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 14, 2013 0:10:47 GMT -5
Hmmm - another clue pointing to the family of Thomas Curnow and Jane Grenfell. That there appear to have been no children to Francis and Mary Gendall and no death/burial yet found for Mary is causing difficulties as is the implication in the death record for Francis Gendall that he was unmarried at the time of his death. But the report of his death in 1895 as located in Trove does name him as 'husband of Mary' which indicates an error in the death record. Assuming the circumstantial evidence is correct then Mary Curnow was born in 1835 in which case she would have been 80 in 1915 which is the end date for my current SA Death records. It is quite conceivable that Mary lived into the 1930s.
CT
|
|
|
Post by zibetha on Dec 14, 2013 0:19:29 GMT -5
My other thought would be that she remarried and would have had a new last name on her death record.
|
|
|
Post by sue on Dec 14, 2013 6:26:48 GMT -5
That's interesting, Zibetha. Thing is, I currently have William Curnow son of Thomas 1802 & Jane Grenfell as marrying Margaret Trevorrow in St Just 1862 then probably out to Aus 1865 on the Norman Morrison. So if that be he marrying Jane Noye in 1866 Moonta, I shall need to find a death for Margaret within months of arriving in Aus....... Thomas Curnow 1802 & Jane Grenfell had I believe 11 children, & I have futures for all of them except Mary 1835 and James 1843; so I would be pleased if this Gendall marriage at Gulval turned out to be her, particularly as it is “my” line of Curnows. I am now a fair way into the task of cross-referencing to my records all the Mary Curnows in the FBMD marriages 1861 – 1871 so as to try and find what happened to the other main Mary candidate I have for this marriage, the daughter of Polly Jennings: it's beginning to look like there is no alternative marriage for her...... I've also scoured the Shipping Lists best I can for the Gendalls by variant spellings, in particular the lists where the Curnow children of the above Thomas & Jane were on board. Nothing found as yet.... Oh yes, & I did look at the S Aus marriage index but couldn't readily see a Mary Gendall listed post 1895 (when she would have been c60 years old). The task continues!! Sue
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 14, 2013 7:23:53 GMT -5
That does complicate things once again. Particularly when the 1861 Census shows that William Curnow, miner age 22 born Towednack, was a 'visitor' in the household of Thomas and Mary Trevorrow at St Just. And in that same household was daughter Margaret Trevorrow age 18 with all details providing a near perfect match to those provided in the 1862 marriage record at St Just! That William Curnow and Jane Noye were married at the residence of Francis Gendall I suspect is more than pure coincidence given Mrs Gendall had been Mary Curnow. But once again we find 'N' in the Marital Status column. I did wonder whether this 'N' might mean something else or even if there was an error but on looking at the Index again I am more convinced that it does mean 'not married'. In the male Curnow marriages this 'N' can be found in only three marriages in 1862, 1863 and 1866. All marriages prior and after these three have either 'S' or 'W' in the marital status column but the 'clincher' is that in the 1862, 1863 and 1866 marriages we have one bride of 'full age' (FL) and two who were age just 17 so most unlikely to have been widowed. Looks like the circumstantial evidence might now be taking us in a different direction. Further complications with the second marriage of Thomas Curnow in 1868 at the home of Thomas Gindall. This Thomas seems unlikely to have been a brother to Francis although I suppose it might be 'just' possible. Thomas Gendall age 26, son of John, married Elizabeth Williams at Morvah in 1871. This was the brother of Francis and he certainly came to South Australia where he had two children born in 1874 and 1876. I guess the hunt must continue! CT
|
|
|
Post by sue on Dec 14, 2013 9:30:58 GMT -5
As a single & young man in 1868 - were he even in Aus theoretically prior to flitting back to England to marry Elizabeth Williams in 1871 - it seems to me most unlikely that Francis Gendall's brother Thomas would be hosting a wedding ceremony at his house that he probably didn't have & probably wasn't there.... So I would think that when Thomas Curnow 1827 married his 2nd wife Emma in 1868 Moonta at the house of Thomas Gendall, agreeing absolutely that Gendall is an unusual name, it was a Thomas Gendall slightly less closely related to Francis the 1863 Gulval groom. For example, if Francis 1839 was son of John 1815 he of Anthony, then there was a Thos Gendall who was Gt Uncle to Francis, and about 90 years old in 1868... a possible 1st cousin Thos Gendall 1811 of James & Mary seems to be getting warmer..... I don't know if identifying this Thos Gendall will necessarily provide much more circumstantial evidence... Anyway. Having tried various websites for a death of Margaret Curnow Aus 1865/66, I have just seen that there is the one Margaret Curnow death in the index www.genealogysa.org.au Woodside Methodist Burial Register, no age or year given in the brief free index. I think I must soon turn to looking for England deaths of Mary Curnows post 1861 as part of the elimination game.... Sue And hmmm.... it is probably far too simplistic to note the St Ives burial 3 October 1861 of Mary Curnow age 27...... yet it seems there are only 2 obvious possibilities for this death, Mary Curnow (one of the options under discussion for the Francis Gendall marriage) daughter of Polly Jennings, she Mary being age 26 in the 1861 census; & another Mary Curnow also age 26 in 1861 who is house servant to James Escott in Fore Street St Ives & declared as born Halsetown & I am scratching my head about her..........
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 14, 2013 21:17:54 GMT -5
No need to show the Sad Smiley! The SA Death Index provides us with the death of a Margaret Curnow near Woodside on 10th June 1886. Margaret was daughter of a William Curnow and was just one day old. I have been looking a little more at the problem of William and Margaret and it begins to look more and more like it was the same William who married Jane Noye. There are several Ancestry Trees that indicate this as well but unfortunately, none have any information on the possible demise of Margaret nee Trevorrow. I can also not find another William Curnow with father Thomas whose birth might be close enough to 1838 to provide an alternative although it is interesting to note that William is supposed to be the 1896 death at Wallaroo mines and his age was recorded as 55. Jane (nee Noye) also died at Wallaroo Mines. CT
|
|
|
Post by sue on Dec 15, 2013 15:11:50 GMT -5
Ah, Margaret Curnow who died one day old child of a Wm Curnow, is quoted on the tree mentioned below as born the previous day 9 June to Wm Curnow & Jane Noye. According to the births I extracted yesterday from the SA indices, Margaret was their 10th child, and anyway it was the name of Jane Noye's mother. But Wm Curnow & Jane Noye named their 2nd daughter Catherine Ann in 1873; and as the William Henry Noye husband of Catherine Ann Curnow also emigrated to Daly/Nairne S Aus (sibling of the Thomas, William & Mary Curnow we are discussing) is probably 1st cousin to Jane Noye who marries Wm Curnow at Francis Gendall's house, there's certainly a big wall of circumstantial evidence now.... I had had a peek yesterday at the 3 Rootsweb trees mentioning Wm Curnow~Jane Noye, (for Wm's birth, the sources quoted seem to be other researchers/each other..., & when I flick to "the other researcher"'s tree it does not give a birth year or place for Wm Curnow that I can see, heh-hoh) and I was interested to note that Wm Curnow's birth was listed as (c)1840, Bussow Towednack. Now, Wm was present 1841 at Rosewall Towednack, 1851 at Chylasson Towednack then 1861 with his apparent future 1st spouse Margaret Trevorrow in St Just, so where does the birthplace of Bussow come from? We know that 1841 the 2 eldest siblings Jane 1825 & Thomas 1827 were at Bussow as child servants to the Quicks.... But where has this person obtained the Bussow birthplace from for William? Too early for birth certificates, & anyway, the date of birth quoted is just an estimate of c1840 (tying in-ish with the age 55 of the 1896 death date....) when the baptismal record (I've sighted) is dated 1838! Could be that Wm Curnow fibbed to teenage Jane Noye as to his age, not surprisingly as he was 10 years her senior. But “Bussow” as birthplace intrigues me. That's all. And 1st wife Margaret must have evaporated in the Australian heat soon after arrival with no death record yet found... Thanks muchly to both for all the help on this. Sue
|
|