pz40
Noweth
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Post by pz40 on Mar 25, 2012 4:21:50 GMT -5
Hi and thanks for all the useful information already posted!
I'm trying to discover the identity of a Mary Thomas who married Thomas Roach of Towednack in 1817 and died in South Australia in 1863 - age on death record 65; age on headstone reported to be 64.
Three possibles seem to be Mary Thomas b.1796 Zennor - ?daughter of Matthew Thomas and Charity nee Christopher; Mary Thomas, b.1799 Zennor - ?daughter of Matthew Thomas and Mary nee Rowe; Mary Thomas b. 1800 Morvah, daughter of George Thomas.
I think that George Thomas and Matthew Thomas (husband of Mary Rowe) could well have been brothers - connections with Morvah.
Have carried out some follow-up research on all three of these possibles - and think I can definitely rule out Mary, b.1796, daug of Matthew and Charity Christopher. She appears on 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses, living with her brother John and caring for their niece Charity Thomas (daughter of Matthew Thomas and his first wife Charity Nicholls.) This branch of the Thomas family lived at Boswednack, near Zennor. Mary Thomas b.1799 was possibly the one who died in Kerrow near Zennor in 1836, aged 37 (Mary Thomas married John Thomas 1826 - they lived at Kerrow). Which seems to leave Mary b 1800 daughter of George of Morvah. Does anyone have any information that might help confirm or disprove any of this? Thanks!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 25, 2012 7:41:39 GMT -5
Hi pz40 and welcome to Penwith Genealogy. I can just about guarantee that none of your three possibles is the Mary Thomas you are looking for. I believe Mary to have been the daughter of Peter Thomas and Jane Curnow who married at St Ives 21st December 1797. Unfortunately no baptism has been found for Mary but there is certainly circumstantial evidence to support the link. Thomas and Mary Roach had a total of 16 children according to my database and although down the list there are two names that provide clues to her possible parentage. Jane Thomas d/o Thomas and Mary Roach of Fogue in Lelant bp. 5th September 1830 at Towednack Peter Thomas s/o Thomas and Mary Roach of Fogue bp. 26th May 1844 Towednack Mary is not the only person probably born at Towednack for whom I have not been able to find a baptism. CT
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pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 26, 2012 3:36:44 GMT -5
Many thanks! I tend to agree with you! None of the Roach/Thomas children was named George, so that rather shoots down the theory that Mary was born in Morvah 1800, daughter of George.
Thomas and Mary Roach had a son called Matthew - but I think I've talked myself out of both Marys of Zennor with father Matthew.
Most of the children of Thomas and Mary Roach seem to have traditional Roach names - but I haven't found a Peter Roach in the family, which does suggest that there was someone on Mary's family with that name. Jane, however, was a Roach name.
I have found so many different theories about the identity of Mary Thomas, wife of Thomas Roach - one that her mother was Ann Thomas, father unknown and that she had brothers William and Simon. Another that she was a daughter of Isaac and Ann who lived in Wales.
All very confusing. It's beginning to look as though the truth, backed up by source evidence, may remain a hidden mystery.
But many thanks for the suggestion!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 26, 2012 7:43:34 GMT -5
If Peter and/or Jane Curnow left a Will (and it survives) then that would be one way to find the answer. But as for the 'theories'! The only Simon Thomas I can find between 1770 and 1820 where the mother was Ann was Simon son of John and Ann Thomas baptised at Lelant in 1804 and another to that family in 1806. I can find no Mary as an illegitimate daughter of an Ann Thomas anywhere near the right timeframe either so that would tend to rule out that theory. And if you have a look at the 1841 Census you will find that Mary was born 'In County' meaning that she was born in Cornwall. And that rules out the theory she was from Wales! I am inclined to stick with Peter and Jane for another reason and that is that they married in December 1797 yet the first 'known' child in the baptism records is not until 1800 when Peter was baptised at Towednack. That leaves a good two years where a child might have been expected. Perhaps tracking down some of the Roach family in South Australia might lead to an answer. CT
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Post by sue on Mar 26, 2012 8:06:50 GMT -5
I cannot see that CRO hold wills for Peter or Jane Thomas in their online catalogue.
However, given Jane's age of "65" in 1841 if my understanding is correct that she is at Georgia, I think the most likely identity for her is daughter of Thomas Curnow & Mary Stevens.
So what with the gap 1797 marriage to 1800 1st known record of baptism to Peter Thomas & Jane Curnow, and the Mary Roach nee Thomas having a birth of c1798 per her Aus death age, a 1st born girl named for the mother's mother is a perfect fit to belong to this couple.
Sue
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pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 26, 2012 8:49:33 GMT -5
Thanks Sue. Totally agree that a grandmother's name is significant - and the gap between 1797 (date of the marriage of Peter Thomas and Jane Curnow) and 1800 - date of 1st record of any children - might well have been filled by the birth of a daughter Mary named after Jane's mother. And Georgia is certainly in the right area - no great distance from Towednack. I will keep digging! PZ40
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pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 27, 2012 3:07:21 GMT -5
If Peter Thomas, husband of Jane nee Curnow, was the Peter ch. St Ives 26 DEC 1775, son of Peter and Honor Thomas, then he had a sister named Mary, ch. 9 JAN 1782 St Ives [source cornwall opc database] - ?so possibly two reasons to name a daughter Mary - after Peter's sister and Jane's mother.
Peter and Jane Thomas were living in Georgia in 1841 - whilst Thomas Roach and Mary (Thomas) were living with their many children at nearby Fogue - surely within easy walking distance?
PZ40
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 27, 2012 5:15:38 GMT -5
I also suspect that Peter Thomas was the son of Peter and Honor. And guess what her maiden name was ?? .................... QUICK!
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pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 27, 2012 6:07:30 GMT -5
And on the subject of the Quick family! Quick change of direction here - sorry about the pun!
I have a Mary Quick who married a Robert Roach in 1828 - I think she was widowed in 1840 and looked after a grocer's shop in Nancledra. ?Daughter Grace Thomas Roach b. 1828 who married a GLASSON and went to Australia.
And I've also found reference to a marriage in 1826 (tho' cannot trace the actual marriage record itself) between a Robert Roach and a Mary Trewhella - ?they lived in Ludgvan until at least 1871 with a fair number of children.
By my reckoning the Robert Roach who married Mary Quick was b. 1798, the son of William Roach and Grace Thomas - hence a daughter named Grace Thomas Roach. And the Robert Roach who married Mary Trewhella was b. 1806, the son of Robert Roach and Elizabeth Couch - who seemed to live next door to them in Ludgvan - certainly in 1841. Both of the Ludgvan Robert Roaches are listed as masons.
Then was it a Robert Roach, born 1795, son of Henry Roach and Jane (nee Dunstone) who married Frances Roach, daughter of Thomas Roach and Sarah Davey? This Robert became mine agent at Tresavean Mine, Redruth.
And a fourth Robert Roach, born 1805, son of Thomas Roach and Sarah Davey (Frances's brother) died in 1808.
Have I got that right?
PZ40
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 27, 2012 7:59:17 GMT -5
NO! ;D At a quick ( ) glance I think you have the two families of Robert and Mary switched around but I can fix that and I think I should be able to answer your other queries. Unfortunately I cannot do it straight away. Hopefully I will be able to get to this a little later tonight and get it all sorted for you. CT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 13:37:01 GMT -5
That would be Josiah Glasson, son of Joseph Glasson and Wilmot nee Quick - married Grace Thomas Roach in 1851 at Towednack. Went to Victoria and had one son - William Stevens Glasson...
Lannanta
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pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 27, 2012 14:57:56 GMT -5
Yes, I believe that's right! Grace Thomas Roach married Josiah Glasson in 1851 - and CT has corrected me about the mother of Grace Thomas Roach - it seems she was Mary Trewhella and not Mary Quick.
Mary Quick therefore must have married Robert Roach, mason of Ludgvan, ch. 1804 - son of Robert Roach and Elizabeth nee Couch.
Thus: Mary Trewhella married 1826 Robert Roach (ch. 1798) Mary Quick married 1828 Robert Roach (ch. 1804)
Hope I've got that right now!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 27, 2012 16:07:56 GMT -5
Just to clarify it for you. Robert Roach bp. 25th September 1798 Towednack son of William Roach and Grace (nee Thomas) married Mary Trewhella at Towednack 29th July 1826 and had seven children including Grace Thomas Roach. Robert was buried at Towednack 7th October 1840 Robert Roach bp. 5th February 1804 Towednack son of Robert Roach and Elizabeth (nee Couch) married Mary Quick at Towednack 27th September 1828 and had ten children that I am currently aware of. Robert Roach bp. 22nd June 1795 Towednack son of Henry Roach and Jane (nee Dunstone) married Frances Roach at Redruth 10th September 1823. Frances Roach was the daughter of Thomas Roach and Sarah (nee Davey). CT
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pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 28, 2012 1:54:22 GMT -5
Thanks CT! That's good and clear now.
I wonder if I dare broach another tricky Roach topic. This is about a Henry Roach.
There is a Henry Roach, reported to be 'nephew ' of the Robert Roach who was mine agent at Trevasean Mine in Redruth and husband of Frances Roach (daughter of Thomas Roach and Sarah nee Davey). I believe this Henry married Elizabeth Bray in Redruth in 1831, then worked at at Copper mIne in Venezuela. Elizabeth died in 1839, aged 28 - her death in South America was reported in the West Briton. Henry Roach then seems to have returned to Cornwall for a while before immigrating to South Australia in 1846 where he became Mine Captain of Burra Burra Mine.
I have found two Henry Roaches ch. in Cornwall at about the right time - one the son of Jane Roach - father not named - ch 10 APR 1803 Towednack - I think he married Mary Lorey. Another was ch. 1806 son of Robert Roach and Elizabeth Couch. I think he married an Alice (?possibly yet another Quick?) But both of these Henry Roaches can be traced in Cornwall for the rest of their lives, with wives Mary or Alice.
So who is the Henry Roach, born in Cornwall, whose headstone in South Australia suggests a birth date of 1808 - and who was a nephew of Robert Roach of Tresavean mine?
Please can anyone help?
PZ40.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 28, 2012 8:18:13 GMT -5
By my records you are right on both counts with the two Henrys. The illegitimate son of Jane Roach married Mary Lorey and I think his mother is the Jenifer Roach who married Henry Tocker at Gwinear in 1805. The other Henry was the son of Robert and Elizabeth and husband of Alice Quick whom he married at Towednack 7th August 1832. The third Henry is still a bit of a mystery but I do have a possible answer. Firstly his wife Elizabeth died at the Arora Copper mines in Columbia in 1838 at the age of 28. The event was reported in The West Briton on Friday October 19th, 1838. I believe henry is more than likely:- Henry Roach illegitimate son of Ann Thomas bp. 12th February 1808 at St Ives So if he was a nephew of Robert and Frances Roach then it will take a bit of work to sort out just who his father might have been. On the other hand it may not! To be an actual 'nephew' then the father has to be an older brother of Robert. The eldest of the brothers of Frances Roach was baptised in 1793 so would only have been about 15 when Henry was baptised. That then leaves just the two eldest brothers of Roberth - Henry born 1785 or Paul born 1787. Henry is the only one I have unaccounted for so he must be the favourite. And that makes sense given Ann Thomas named her son 'Henry Roach Thomas'! CT
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