pz40
Noweth
Posts: 8
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Post by pz40 on Mar 28, 2012 9:53:43 GMT -5
Many thanks once again CT. I had also been considering Henry Roach Thomas, ch. 1808, illegit son of Ann Thomas, because the Captain Henry Roach of Burra Burra mine SA died in 1889, at the age of 81 according to the inscription on his headstone - which brings us back to 1808 pretty spot on. Not that ages at death are always exactly right, mind you!
According to my notes, Henry Roach and Jane Dunstone had three surviving sons - Henry (1785) Paul (1787) and Robert (1795) - who has been reliably identified as the uncle of the aforesaid Captain Henry Roach of Burra Burra.
Henry Roach senior, husband of Jane Dunstone, had died in 1801 - so he can't have been the father - in any case that would have made Captain Henry a half-brother of Robert Roach of Tresavean, not a nephew.
So, yes you are right, that does leave Henry Roach born 1785, Robert's eldest brother, as the most likely person to have been the father. And I haven't any other information on a Henry Roach b. 1785 - no early death or marriage - so he might well have been 'available' shall we say?
Good to have my thoughts confirmed - I was afraid I might have missed something and that there might have been another more obvious Henry Roach born in about 1808. With records in so many different sources, it's quite easy to miss out on a vital clue.
Many thanks again for your help.
PZ 40
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 28, 2012 10:13:22 GMT -5
I must say that I had not noticed Henry Roach Thomas before tonight but he is the most likely candidate for the man who married Elizabeth Bray. And Henry son of Henry and Jane is also the most likely to have been the father although I have not yet found any further information about him either. As usual - more work to be done! CT
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Post by elizbarnes on Oct 28, 2012 22:34:04 GMT -5
I also suspect that Peter Thomas was the son of Peter and Honor. And guess what her maiden name was ?? .................... QUICK! Can't keep those Quicks away. Thanks Sue and CT. I will run with Peter and Jane. Now i can't find Peter b 1775 death in opc. I find him and Jane in Georgia in 1841. Peter a farmer. Over the page in census, we have 2 more Thomas families. William 25 (b 1816 St Ives)and Elizabeth 20 2 children. Peter 40 (b 1800 Towednack) and Elizabeth 40 and Jane 14. William married Elizabeth Curnow in 1839. His father is listed as Peter. OPC Assuming that Peter b 1775 is his father. Peter married Elizabeth Casley. 31 jan 1825 Towednack (find my past) Is Jane their only child? I also have as other siblings. John Thomas b 1802 St Ives Thomas Thomas b 1811 St Ives There is a big gap between John and Thomas. Are there more children? It appears that the family moved before 1811 to St Ives. Peter is listed as a labourer in William's bapt. and resident of St Ives. Is this the same family or is there another Peter and Jane Thomas out there? If Peter b 1775 is son of Peter and Honor nee Quick who married in 18 Jun 1775 is he a bit of a shotgun babe? Can one of our Quick specialist help me here? Re Jane Curnow. Can anyone supply any more information about her? Other than Her mother was probably Mary Stevens and her father Thomas Curnow. A birth, baptism and a death. Marriage of parents. Siblings? Cheers Eliz
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 29, 2012 2:59:23 GMT -5
Hi Eliz - I think I can answer at least some of your questions. You won't find burial records for Peter or for Jane in the OPC database and probably nowhere else at the moment. The reason for that is that I suspect both were buried at Towednack and burial records for that Parish are not available for the period required. Aside from attending the CRO the only burial records currently available for Towednack are from the Hoblyn Transcript which covers up until 1812 and I believe have been transcribed for the OPC. Burials from 1865 onwards are also available on the OPC site. A Burial Index covering 1813-1837 can be purchased from the Cornwall Family History Society. The two families of Peter and William Thomas at Georgia in 1841 were sons of Peter and Jane and to my knowledge Jane was the only child of Peter. And aside from sons John and Thomas whom you have mentioned there was also a daughter. Mary Thomas was born about 1798, presumably at Towednack, but as far as I know there has been no baptism found. She married Thomas Roach at Towednack 10th August 1817 and died at Kooringa, Clare, South Australia 20th March 1863. I have found no other children who might fill that gap between 1802 and 1811 and I don't know how much time the family spent at St Ives. Peter Thomas was baptised at St Ives and that is where the marriage occurred so it might be said that there was a move to Towednack for a few years prior to a return to St Ives. Son John was baptised at St Ives in 1802 as well as the younger boys in 1811 and 1816 but obviously the family settled at Georgia in Towednack sometime prior to 1841. Methinks you might have a bit to learn about Cornwall yet! Rather than the exception it seems that it was more the rule that the first child in a Cornish family would arrive much less than the 'normal' nine months or so after a marriage! If you spend enough time researching Cornish families you will find that the first child was very often baptised within just a few months of the marriage ........... and sometimes within weeks or even days! For the first child in a family not to arrive for a year or more was quite unusual. Jane Curnow was baptised at Towednack 6th April 1773 daughter of Thomas Curnow and Mary Stevens who were married at Towednack 30th March 1771. That is all I have in my database at the moment until I confer with Sue again. The Thomas Curnows have been a problem for years and Sue and I did quite a bit of work on them a while back to try and sort them out. Unfortunately I have not managed to get all the information updated into my database as yet. But if memory serves me correctly then I believe we concluded that Thomas was probably the son of William Curnow and Jone Trewhella. Mary Stevens, though, I believe to have been baptised at Zennor 27th December 1739 daughter of Andrew Stevens and Mary Donithorne. CT
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Post by sue on Oct 29, 2012 5:09:46 GMT -5
Eliz, wot CT says about heavily pregnant brides walking down the aisle in Cornwall back then is so true – I reckon men mostly only got married if they had to – or more charitably, if the woman had proved she would be providing children! I have seen my GGGmother's wedding dress, and marvelled at how she squashed her stomach to get into it 1859 at seven and a half months pregnant! ;D As to details about Jane Curnow daughter of Thomas Curnow & Mary Stevens: I would recommend you have a good look at west-penwith.org.uk for some Towednack PR transcriptions. Bearing in mind that CT has told you that Jane Curnow was baptized 6 April 1773 Towednack, you might find the Towednack burials illuminating...... As to who her father Thomas Curnow was...... I have a file labelled Thomas Curnow Problems. It contains much information, with few resolved problems! I have spent probably 100s of hours on these chaps..... When/if I eventually sort out the various Thomas Curnows from the 1730s to 1780s, I reckon any other Curnow problem will be child's play in comparison! There is a lot of overlapping child-naming plus missing burials etc. that makes these Thomas Curnows very hard to differentiate. I am hoping one day to look at some manorial records that may throw in some extra information to help with the elimination game. Meanwhile yes, CT & I concluded a while ago that the Thomas Curnow who married Mary Stevens was “probably” the child of William Curnow & Jone Trewhella – but I am not yet confident enough to have written that into my records: too many Thomas Curnow marriages, not enough of them signed as opposed to made their mark in the marriage register for comparisons or had useful witnesses, too few burials.... Try having a look at all the Thomas Curnows in the PR records if you fancy a Big Headache! Sorry, I must have meant Humongous Challenge..... And the one thing I can say is that many of the online trees are wrong regarding many of the Thomas Curnows (no surprise there!), as their placements simply don't fit with the known “facts”..... Sue
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Post by genie2 on Oct 31, 2012 20:26:55 GMT -5
Seems I've been away for a while and maybe rehashing the already known!
I have "The Life and Times of Thomas THOMAS 1810 - 1886" compiled by the late Hettie Smith (great grand daughter of Thomas THOMAS b. Nov. 1810) which gives the burial of Peter THOMAS, aged 72 years (born about 1746) on 21 April 1818 at St Ives and of Honor THOMAS also at St. Ives, aged 80 years, born about 1744.
Hettie also gives that Peter THOMAS m.21 Feb 1797 at St. Ives to Jane Hicks CURNOW of Towednack.
These ROACH, CURNOW, NINNES, THOMAS families are so intertwined our headaches will continue.......
Glenys
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Post by elizbarnes on Oct 31, 2012 23:54:58 GMT -5
Hi Glenys,
Did Hettie give Peter Thomas and Jane Curnow's dates of death by any chance? The records I have access to are too vague. No ages, just guessing at the moment.
Elizabeth
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Post by elizbarnes on Nov 1, 2012 0:01:23 GMT -5
Eliz, wot CT says about heavily pregnant brides walking down the aisle in Cornwall back then is so true – I reckon men mostly only got married if they had to – or more charitably, if the woman had proved she would be providing children! Ah, must be genetic ;D
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Post by elizbarnes on Nov 1, 2012 0:08:45 GMT -5
Meanwhile yes, CT & I concluded a while ago that the Thomas Curnow who married Mary Stevens was “probably” the child of William Curnow & Jone Trewhella – Ok I will use that. Now I look to the Stevens family. Can't I be a Smith, it must be easier, surely. All those Andrew Steven fathers. Why oh why didn't the clerk write down Andrew, John's son, had a daughter....hahah. In 26 years Andrew had 13 children but are they all one Andrew's. 1763-1789 and that is in Zennor alone. Not game to look elsewhere yet. Ho hum. Nose to the grindstone. Back to work Elizabeth
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Post by genie2 on Nov 1, 2012 0:42:39 GMT -5
Hi Elizabeth
Hettie writes: 1859 On Jan 31st., 1859 the marriage of Thomas THOMAS., 48 years, farmer of Skillogalee creek, son of Peter THOMAS (Cornwall) and Hannah POTTER, 42 years, spinster of Spring Farm, was solemnised at the private home of Mr. Thos. NINNES of "Meadows" near Clare (S.A.). The witnesses were Thos. NINNES, farmer of "Meadows" near Clare and Maria BRAY of Spring Farm near Clare. The Rev. Flockhart officiated.
Glenys
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 1, 2012 8:21:21 GMT -5
Hi Glenys - I wonder if you could clarify the following please:- Does the date of marriage in the book actually say FEBRUARY? If it does then it is most certainly in error. The date recorded in the St Ives Parish Register is 21st DECEMBER 1797. The marriage was solemnized after Banns published October 22nd and 29th and November 15th 1797 with John Harry and Jane Kitto as witnesses. The bride's name in your quote is Jane Hicks Curnow - is there any further clarification of this or any further identification for Jane? In the Parish Register she is simply recorded as Jane Curnow and she signed her name as Jane Curnow so I am extremely curious to know the origins of the information in this book. I have no knowledge of any marriage between a Curnow and a Hicks and most certainly not at any time prior to 1800. I think it would be wise to exercise caution when dealing with some of the information in this book until it can be corrorroborated. CT
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Post by sue on Nov 1, 2012 8:51:22 GMT -5
You've definitely bowled me a googly with the suggestion Jane Curnow who married Peter Thomas was a "Jane Hicks Curnow", Glenys. There's no sign of a Hicks connection in any possible parentage for Jane, that I know of. , or can find. I too would be very keen to know quite what the original source for this was, in the book you have. Sue
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Post by marcusomega47 on Apr 18, 2016 4:04:19 GMT -5
Hi Everyone and distant Cornish Cousins I have just joined Penwith Genealogy. My name is Mark Brice and I live in Adelaide, South Australia, Australia. I descend from the Thomas, Roach, Moyle and Oliver etc surnames. I descend from one of the extensive family of Thomas Roach and Mary Thomas the Cornish settlers in South Australia. I will include some documents that may assist people in their research. These documents have valuable information to assist researchers. My email is marcusomega47@netspace.net.au I am approachable to help distant family cousins, members.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 18, 2016 8:02:06 GMT -5
Hello Mark and Welcome to Penwith Genealogy. Many of us have Roach connections so I look forward to your input to any discussions on the family. CT
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Post by marcusomega47 on Oct 12, 2016 21:17:48 GMT -5
Thank you and I look forward to enriching our families past and heritage for all those that are related and interested.
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