Nanny Glasson - perhaps

[Deleted]

CT et al Glasson people

Thought you might like something that you can sit back and relax with....

It started with the marriage of Nanny Glasson to Edward Triggs in 1895.

I went to the census and found Nanny with her grandmother, Fanny Penberthy in the 1891 census. She was said to be born about 1865 in St Erth. A quick visit to FreeBMD and in the Dec quarter of 1863 there is a Nanny Glasson and a Nanny Glasson Glasson - both with the same reference - 5c/309. Hmmm.. odd - I think - I have seen this before - a double registration perhaps - because there is no death for one of them and no further mention of the two of them together.

So I went to the 1871 census and looked for the grandmother - Fanny Penberthy - she was in St Erth and with her were two grandchildren - Nanny Glasson Penberthy and Elizabeth F. Glasson Penberthy.

In the 1881 census Grandma only has Nanny G. Penberthy with her while you can find Elizabeth F. working around the road as a servant - under the surname Glasson.

So then I went to the St Erth OPC site and found the following two baptisms:
Bap 25/7/1864, born 31/10/1863, Nanny Glasson Penberthy to Mary Penberthy.
Bap 9/3/1866, born 20/5/1864, Frances Elizabeth Glasson Penberthy to Mary Penberthy.

Of course Grandma had a daughter Mary baptised around 1839 at St Erth.

So the next question is why the fascination with Glasson - other than clearly the father of the two girls would have been one.

So when you go back to the marriage of Nanny Glasson and Edward Triggs in 1895 at Lelant, you actually see that Nanny names her father as James - and at this stage she is calling herself a Glasson and not a Penberthy.

Now this is the weird bit - James Glasson was married to Frances Ann Penberthy in 1858 at St Erth. Frances was born 1839 according to the census, while Mary was born in August 1838 - are they the same woman??

When you look at the children of James and Frances Ann there is a gap from 1863 (Abel born in Cornwall) and 1870 (James born in USA).

So are these two girls just children that were left behind - unlikely, or was James being fancy free with two Penberthy girls - or am I way off the mark.

Lannanta

[londoner]

HO107; Piece 144; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St Erth; County: Cornwall; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 44; Page: 17; Line: 14;

Definitely two different Penberthy girls according to the 1841 census for St Erth

Willm Penberthy 28
Frances Penberthy 27
William Penberthy 6
Frances Penberthy 4
Mary Penberthy 2
Samson Penberthy 7 MO

and in 1851:
William Penberthy 39
Frances Penberthy 37
William Penberthy 16
Frances Ann Penberthy 14
Mary Penberthy 12
Rosetta Penberthy 8
Elizabeth Margt Penberthy 7
Herodias Penberthy 4
Susan Penberthy 6 MO

[londoner]

and 30 Jul 1887 at St Erth Elizabeth Frances Glasson Pemberthy married Edwin Williams. No father's name given for the bride
Have found them in 1891 at Canonstown, no children. but not later.

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - it has taken me a few reads to try and understand this one but I think I am getting there.

I already had at least part of the family of William and Frances Penberthy in the database which was a good start. But this seems to be a strange family.

William Penberthy married Frances King at St Erth 9th August 1834

William was born at St Erth around 1811 and Frances at St Hilary around 1814 but I have not tried to find parents for them as yet and will probably leave that for a later date.

It is the records for the children that lead me to the comment about it being a 'strange' family. I have not found a baptism for daughter Frances Ann as yet but still need to check Non-conformist records so hopefully I will find her there.

Londoner - a correction for the 1841 Census.

That last child is TAMSON and not SAMSON and I have just added yet another correction to Ancestry!

The original transcript of St Erth Baptisms had the child as Thomas... but I have just looked at the PR and it is definitely THOMASINE.

And now for the 'strange' bits.

In 1850 William and Frances baptised two children and buried one with the events as follows:-

29th January 1850 baptised Herodias (born 3rd August 1848)
2nd February 1850 buried Herodias age 1
2nd February 1850 baptised Herodias Kernick (born 20th August 1846

Note that the child baptised first was actually born two years after the child baptised second! (Both were daughters by the way)
So was the elder of these two known simply as Hey You for the first couple of years of her life? ;D

This second daughter later married as Rhoda.

And there is another anomaly beginning with this entry from the St Erth PR:-

Richard James son of William and Fanny Penberthy of St Erth bp. 20th January 1856

And then in 1865:-

James son of William and Frances Penberthy of St Erth bp. 15th March 1865 - Received into the Church by Alfred W. Mills, Vicar.
Note - born and baptised in Duolin (Dublin?) Jun: 1855

Are Richard James and James the same person?
With James baptised in 1865 it is possible that the year of birth is in error and although the month does look to be 'Jun' it could well be 'Jan'.

It might not be just the family that is mixed up ..... I think may be the St Erth PR might possibly have been suffering a case of 'Vicarus Imbibus'!

Frances Ann d/o William and Fanny PELLOW bp. 25th September 1836 (I do believe this might be Frances Ann Penberthy)

Hmm - maybe not ...... I see other children baptised to William and Frances Pellow at St Erth and none of the names match the Penberthy children for whom I am missing baptisms.

Enough of chasing Penberthys for now! So onto the Glasson part of the dilemma.

When you look at the children of James and Frances Ann there is a gap from 1863 (Abel born in Cornwall) and 1870 (James born in USA).

Not quite me old chum!

Did you notice that Frances Ann Penberthy was recorded simply as 'Ann Penberthy' when she married James Glasson??

Thomasine daughter of James and Ann Glasson of St Erth bp. 11th August 1866 (private baptism)
Thomasine Glasson of St Erth age 2 yrs buried 10th September 1866 St Erth

That has not answered your main query but I will think more on that.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

or was James being fancy free with two Penberthy girls - or am I way off the mark.

Or was James just a name that Nanny used to 'fill the blank spot on the form' and to make it appear she was a legitimate child?

Just because she named her father as James, even if it were true, does not necessarily mean that the James involved was the same man who married her Aunt.

CT

[londoner]

James son of William and Frances Penberthy of St Erth bp. 15th March 1865 - Received into the Church by Alfred W. Mills, Vicar.
Note - born and baptised in Duolin (Dublin?) Jun: 1855

Are Richard James and James the same person?
With James baptised in 1865 it is possible that the year of birth is in error and although the month does look to be 'Jun' it could well be 'Jan'.

Presumably this is the James who married Amelia Pellow and whose son William J (1876) is with Nanny and grandma Fanny in 1881?

[londoner]

William James (and I know it is a bit off the original but it ties up that loose end) married Zenobia Hosking (b 1872 Lelant d/o Phillip & Zenobia nee Phillips) in Dec 1898 in Mansfield Notts.
in 1901 they have one child Philip James and by 1911 another Gladys Mary (1905) and one child deceased.

[Deleted]

Hi Londoner

and 30 Jul 1887 at St Erth Elizabeth Frances Glasson Pemberthy married Edwin Williams. No father's name given for the bride
Have found them in 1891 at Canonstown, no children. but not later.

Seems as if the two girls have a different view on life - Elizabeth happy to be a Penberthy but Nanny preferring her Glasson surname - and interestingly Glasson is the surname that Nanny is registered with - which I think is not the case for Elizabeth - must check that...

Lannanta

[Deleted]

CT

I went to the census and found Nanny with her grandmother, Fanny Penberthy in the 1891 census. She was said to be born about 1865 in St Erth. A quick visit to FreeBMD and in the Dec quarter of 1863 there is a Nanny Glasson and a Nanny Glasson Glasson - both with the same reference - 5c/309. Hmmm.. odd - I think - I have seen this before - a double registration perhaps - because there is no death for one of them and no further mention of the two of them together.

Almost - in fact one Nanny was also known as Nancy and she died the following year - 1864 - and she was of course the daughter of Jakeh and Nancy. The second one is the subject of this thread.

Or was James just a name that Nanny used to 'fill the blank spot on the form' and to make it appear she was a legitimate child?

No it wasn't. Nanny knew who her father was and it was James Glasson. Nanny's birth entry records James Glasson and Mary Penberthy.

Just because she named her father as James, even if it were true, does not necessarily mean that the James involved was the same man who married her Aunt

True, there was a second James at St Erth in the 1861 census, the son of John and Ann nee Penberthy.... he does not appear after the 1861 census and his whereabouts would need to be found so as to eliminate him or otherwise.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - as with the beginning of this thread I am having a little trouble getting the poor old worn down brain working on this one.

But that now scraggy mechanism is suggesting to me that it may be more likely the second James Glasson might be the father.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall Nanny appearing with with James and Fanny in the Census at any time.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

I will answer your question later but I do not think so.

Interesting is that Nanny was illegitimate because the mother - Mary Penberthy - is not listed in the birth as married to James Glasson.

Lannanta

[Glazin2018]

And on the 11th May 1865, at Churchtown in St Erth, Mary Penberthy had another child - Lily Glasson Penberthy - no father listed but it is not hard to work out just what the father's surname was.

[Cornish Terrier]

I think you will find that this is the girl baptised at St Erth 9th March 1866 as 'Frances Elizabeth Glasson Penberthy' daughter of Mary Penberthy of St Erth. In the baptism record her birthdate was recorded as 28th May 1865.

In case you are not already aware of it 'Lily' was often used as a nickname for Elizabeth or Eliza. I have seen it numerous times in Census and other records.

CT

[Glazin2018]

Makes sense CT
I think I possibly tripped up when I copied the OPC entry into my database and the baptism date showed as 1864. I checked the parish entry myself and I can see why there is room to call it both ways - 1864 or 1865. On reflection if it was 1864 it would be too close to the birth of her sister Nanny Glasson Penberthy at the end of October in 1863.
Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

I think it is also notable that there is no birth registration under the name Frances Elizabeth Glasson Penberthy - or even anything close enough to be considered a possibility to be the same person.
I have looked at the St Erth register entry again and the year of birth is definitely 1865 although at first glance and without looking closely it could be misread as 1864.

CT