Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2011 10:28:48 GMT -5
Interesting - given the LDS via FamilySearch have now released the first volume of Illogan registers it would seem that things might have changed. Often it was the Vicar who placed restrictions on the release or use of the registers and I think the same sort of thing occurred at St Teath.
I am not sure exactly what he has but I do know that David (the Illogan OPC) has at least some of the Bawden Transcripts so any information he is able to find would probably come from them. Actually, looking at the date range again, I would think that might be exactly what David has.
I don't know about availability of them but David might be able to tell you that.
Baptisms in Illogan on LDS Film1849636, transcriptions by W. L. Bawden: Family Connections (FCs) for John Bryant (Baptisms): p. 60 Bryant, Mary d. of William --- Dec 26, 1731 p. 65 Bryant, Eliz: (Elizabeth) d. of William --- Dec 27, 1736 p. 81 Bryant, Mary do of John & Mary his wife -- Oct 28, 1752 p. 84 Bryant, Elizabeth d. of John & Mary his wife -- Jan 1, 1755 p. 87 Bryant, John s. of John & Mary his wife -- June 12, 1757 Marriages in Illogan on LDS film1849636, transcriptions by W. L. Bawden: p. 333 Bryant, William, (& Mary his wife+) --- 9 Oct, 1724 +The wives names are omitted in the register. p. 342 Bryant, John, & Mary Prince -- 5 June 1752 (entry written over an erasure) p. 348 Pearce, John, Miner, & Elizabeth Bryant Sprinster --- 23rd August 1762 W: John Andrew -- He signed Noel Bryant -- She signed p. 350 Nicholl(s), Thomas, Gardener, & Mary Bryant Spinster --- 14th May 1764 W: Edwd Nichols --- He signed Noel Bryant --- Her mark: p. 450 Miller, Thomas, a bachelor, & Mary Bryant a spinster ---- 6th March 1819 W: Wm Lecher --- He signed John Willoughby --- Her mark: \ p. 488 Bryant, John, of the Parish of Camborne, & Ann Bennetts -- 23rd September, 1828 W: John Pearce --- His mark: John Willoughby --- Her mark: Burials in Illogan on LDS Film1849636, transcriptions by W. L. Bawden: p. 598 Bryant, William s. of William & Mary his wife -- June 26, 1740 p. 615 Bryant, William -- July 14, 1762 p. 612 Bryant, Mary Wife of John --- May 16, 1759 p. 631 Bryant, Mary Widow -- May 6, 1780
The above is what David very kindly extracted for me. From the burial on page 612 - Mary Bryant of Illogan died before John Bryant married Mary Williams, so they are two different John Bryants. I am wondering how to prove that the family Camborne/Germoe/St. Hilary are the one family.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 5, 2011 5:30:28 GMT -5
Hmm - I think you mean that Mary wife of John Bryant died 'after' John Bryant married Mary Williams.
Right then, so that eliminates the Illogan connection. And assuming that 'Mary wife of John' was indeed Mary Prince then it also means that there is unlikely to be a connection between Illogan and the Camborne baptisms.
In turn that then suggests the possibility that Camborne is linked to your family at Germoe and St Hilary.
Proving that link may be an interesting challenge.
Those children at Camborne begin to appear soon after the marriage of John Bryant to Mary Williams and with the Mary Prince marriage removed from the equation it would seem that these events must be connected.
We also have Bryant children beginning to be baptised from around 1766 at St Hilary and Germoe and the marriage of John Bryant to Mary Williams again seems to be the only possibility.
I would suggest that you create a list of the children in order after eliminating those baptised at Illogan. Then you would need to determine how many, if any, of these children were buried or married in areas where your family is known to have been. (i.e. St Hilary, Germoe etc.)
In the apparent absence of any Wills for this family this might be the only option .... at least for now.
Many thanks CT for that burial for Catherine, it is seeming to link the two families. I didn't have her burial, but had 2nd Catherine bapt 1780 (buried 1781) at St. Hilary. This fits with the pattern of naming the next child after the recently deceased. The only child found baptised at Germoe was Joseph 1769 and you found his burial, then next child Joseph is baptised 1770 at St. Hilary. I looked at the burials at Camborne 1755 to 1825 and the male Briant/Bryant names were - Alexander, William, Daniel, John - ours. (Johnson, Francis, Isaac, Emblin - not in ours.) With the marriages, apart from my ancestors Alexander who married Grace Rodda, the only one I think I am sure of, is Daniel Bryant who married 1791 at St. Hilary another Mary Williams. I thought I had my Jane Bryant marrying John Berriman and they had a child Richard Bryant Berriman, which would tie in my the 1st child born at Camborne, but you are sure that John Berriman did not marry this Jane. So if I can track born Camborne - Richard 1756, William 1761, Mary 1765 to St. Hilary it would be good. Think I'll have to leave that until I'm not so tired. Many thanks again. ;D
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 6, 2011 23:01:09 GMT -5
Don't totally discount the marriage of John Berriman and Jane Bryant. I am suggesting that there is enough information to cause doubt about her origins so I think it would be well worth the time to try and find out exactly who she was.
I certainly do not mind being proved wrong but it simply does not look right at the moment and you need to be certain that you have the right links.
Children of John and Jane Berriman - seem to link more to my names CT, no Arthur or Elizabeth, but a Richard Bryant Berriman. Not sure what the Berriman names were of course. Couldn't find obvious marriage of Richard. Found William at Lelant 1791 tinner to Mary Clark, Daniel 1791 St. Hilary to another Mary Williams (first child Richard), Joseph tinner m 1799 Lelant to Margaret Hosking (ch Margaret, Jane, John, Grace, Mary, Richard and Eliza). Alexander to Grace Rodda ch William, Grace, Alexander, John, Joseph, Benjamin (Rodda name) Jane.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 7, 2011 7:42:23 GMT -5
Now then - it begins to look to me like there is a touch of 'found a name that matches so must be mine' creeping in here.
You will find quite a lot of Bryants at Lelant including Richard, Joseph and plenty of Williams and an equal number of Bryants at St Ives.
The William who married Mary Clark in 1791 could be any one of up to five William Bryants baptised at Lelant and Joseph might equally have been the son of Hugh and Catherine baptised at Lelant in 1775.
In fact if you check the 1851 Census you will find Joseph Bryant still living at Lelant age 76 with his recorded birthplace being Lelant. By this time he was widowed but in 1841 he was at Lelant with wife Margaret.
Just because you find a couple of names that match does not mean that you should immediately jump to the conclusion that they must be of your family. It simply does not work that way.
Have you considered the possibility that one or more of these people might not have married?
Sorry, didn't for one minute think that these are definitely mine, considering there is no Nebukenzar among them lol No just thought possibles and being tinners, but then so was half Cornwall lol Did look at a Jane Bryant buried St Hilary and the right age buried about 1846 but then found a Jane Bryant wife of Richard sexton at St. Hilary in the 1841 Census - I think the address was something like Higher Downs in both. I'm just pleased my ancestor was Alexander and I knew who he married and his children - wish his siblings were a bit more obliging - oh well that's life.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 8, 2011 7:03:34 GMT -5
Sod - as in 'dirt'
or Sod - as in 'Silly'! ;D
All depends on how deep you dig and also how and where you discard the discarded sods.
You need to be more precise with your equational mathematics the deeper you dig in order to comply with the computed results of the placements of certain amounts of said discarded sods dependent on the angle of the dangle at the appropriate time of digging season incorporating of course the possibilities that certain amounts of discarded sods may not be precisely placed where intended.
Should sufficient amounts of discarded sods be placed incorrectly in comparison with the projected computations relating to the correct angle of the dangle at what should be the appropriate time then the position of yourself at the particular time of the required information eventually surfacing may be indeterminate.
At this point my guess is that you think that I am a Silly Sod! ;D
Always have had problems with Maths - my teacher in primary school was brilliant at Maths, but hopeless as a teacher ... Regarding my Bryants I've been having a looking at burials on the OPC and the only one that seems to fit is Daniel, who died in the Union Workhouse at Madron, but it said he was from St. Hilary. Not sure where to look now. Maybe I should try to find a baptism for Mary Williams from Germoe. There are a number of Mary Bryant burials at St. Hilary, but I think they are too young.
Last Edit: Nov 8, 2011 17:51:38 GMT -5 by nannysmith
Been digging!! - found on FS, Bryant baptims at Gwinear - father Daniel - Jane 1727, Elizabeth 1732, John 1729?, Daniel 1731, William 1734 and then to Daniel & Bridget 1744 Richard... so John 1729 is possibly the John blacksmith of Gwinear who married Mary Williams at Germoe 1755. Wish I could prove that they are the same family as at St. Hilary... An earlier family researcher, Bill Lemin, wrote that the family had resided at St. Hilary since 17th Century but could not find a marriage for John and Mary.. said John b 16/2/1724 died 1/2/1784 at St. Hilary.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 9, 2011 4:36:39 GMT -5
Once again we have that anomaly of the age recorded when a person died or was buried. In this case Daniel Bryant was recorded as being age 76 when buried at Madron 4th February 1740. If this age were accurate then he would have been born in 1763 yet a search of baptisms indicates that the closest possible baptism is that of your Daniel at St Hilary in 1767.
The problem is that any discrepancy like this requires investigation in case there is more than one possibility that might affect a lineage.
It is for that reason I threw that huge spanner into the works regarding Jane Bryant. And as it turned out there was another Jane whose baptism provided a much closer match for the particular burial involved.
As you know the parents recorded for that Jane were Arthur and Elizabeth yet no marriage for an Arthur Bryant to Elizabeth could be found and I could also not find a baptism for an Arthur Bryant.
But I might now have a solution to that problem!
Arthur MOORSHEAD married Elizabeth BRYANT at Lelant 26th April 1764. From 1764 until 1769 they baptised four children at Lelant and then there is a gap until 1778 when the first of another three children were baptised to them.
I now suspect that the Jenifer Bryant baptised to Arthur and Elizabeth at Lelant in 1776 might actually be a MOORSHEAD rather than a BRYANT with her mother's maiden name being incorrectly recorded when the child was baptised.
That is the only solution I can find for this problem right now.
And if I am correct (this time! ;D) then it means it is still possible that the wife of John Berriman was the daughter of your John and Mary Bryant.
And now there is the Gwinear link to be considered especially given you have found the name Daniel involved in that Parish.
You could go off and search around Germoe for a Mary Williams who might have been the wife of John but I think it might be worth spending a little more time checking the Gwinear Bryant families. Even if your John was not born/baptised at Gwinear you may find some connection that explains his presence there.