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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2011 1:29:30 GMT -5
CT
A nice little challenge for you.
I have from the 1871, 1881 and 1891 census, Lucy Waters Glasson, born 1870.
I know that she was born at Halsetown on the 20th August 1870 to Mary Glasson, no father recorded.
Never appears with her mother, rather with a nurse.
Who was Mary?
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 16, 2011 2:40:03 GMT -5
She wasn't followed about by a Little Lamb by any chance was she?  No promises mate - but I will take a look and see what I can find.  Hmm - good start!  Indexed in Ancestry for 1871 as LUCY G CASSON!  CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 16, 2011 3:33:07 GMT -5
Some 'picture-building' for a start.  In 1871 Lucy, age 7 months, was a nurse child with the family of John Bosanquet, a shoemaker age 47, and his wife Jane who was age 51 and born St Ives. (John born at Gwennap). Also in the household is their daughter Catherine A Bosanquet, charwoman age 18, and daughter Elizabeth J Bosanquet, scholar age 15. Lucy Waters Glasson daughter of Mary Glasson of Halsetown was baptised 25th May 1871 at St Ives. It goes without saying that there is no Mary Glasson to be found at St Ives/Halsetown in 1871. 1881 Census  - You may have Lucy in 1881 me ol' mate ... but I can assure you that Ancestry doesn't and neither does FreeCEN ............. unless they have her indexed in some totally unrecogniseable way! No problem finding here in 1891 but obviously no clues on offer there.  Hmmmm! - you neglected to tell me you found her as Lucy WATERS in 1881! So having now found her in each of the three Census years I would appear to have arrived at the same point as yourself - A big Dead End!  After a look back at the 1861 Census I reckon I can see only two likely candidates. 1. Mary Glasson, age 18, born St Ives - employed as a house servant to Charles Craise, mine agent, and his family at Halsetown. She would have been born around 1842'/3 and therefore about 28 when Lucy was born. 2. Mary E Glasson, age 8, born St Ives - daughter of John (blacksmith) and Mary Glasson at Halsetown. She would have been about 18 but I think a little less likely. My prime suspect therefore is the servant of Charles Craise.  And that would seem to make here the daughter of Jakeh and Philippa! CT |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2011 5:07:24 GMT -5
CT
Not so sure me old mate. The reason I say that is it is unusual for Lucy not be with her mother, when another illegitimate daughter of that Mary - Cecilia (Celia) - was found with her mother. The family certainly had the wherewithall to support Lucy if she was in fact their grand child. That Mary also married John Hollow in 1872 by the way.
My leaning was towards the other Mary you mentioned but with no way to prove it at the moment.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 16, 2011 6:41:07 GMT -5
Mate - I think you might want to start leaning back the other way before you fall over! I have a reasonably satisfactory reason why it might have been difficult for Mary to have given birth to Lucy at Halsetown in 1870. Something to do with the fact that her sister, Margaret Hosking Glasson, was born at Ballarat, Victoria, AUSTRALIA in 1868 and I would suspect that Mary was somewhere in the vicinity! ;D She married Walter Cornell in Victoria in 1879. I am not sure when they arrived in Victoria as I cannot find them in the Unassisted Passenger records but I have not tried any variations of the name. Also possible that they arrived in another State and made their way to Victoria later. CT |
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Post by sue on Mar 16, 2011 11:37:13 GMT -5
Mary Glasson daughter of Jakeh Glasson & Phillippa Quick was bptzd Lelant 7 April 1844 - along with brother Joseph: Joseph & Mary... In 1871 I have her down as NANCY Glasson with her illegit. daughter Cecilia born Sep Q 1864, one of her brothers, & parents Jakeh & Phillipa, at The Cornish Arms Trelyon, St Ives.. (Jakeh & Phillipa moved down the road from Halsetown to Trelyon when Jakeh took over the pub from brother John.) This was just before Mary married John Hollow 1872; then Mary has further children Catherine Hollow, John Hollow, then Alma Hollow Mar Q 1882 - Alma who goes on, unmarried, to have Cecil Rhodes Hollow in 1902..... Mary Hollow is a grocer @ Trelyon just along from dad Jakeh Glasson in 1881; with him at the pub in 1891; then 1901 back up the road @ Pulmanter Water, Halsetown with daughter Cecilia. This Mary Glasson is my GGmother's aunt, so it'll be interesting to see if Lucy belongs to this Mary... There was sufficent non-impecunious family around to look after an unmarried girl with offspring (not only her parents, also 3 married sisters locally) as Lannanta says - but there could always be a reason for another scenario.... Sue |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 16, 2011 22:37:56 GMT -5
When I first looked at this I had the problem of locating Lucy because she had been indexed as Lucy G Casson. That meant that it was going to be difficult to determine whether or not I had found all possible candidates. However, of those I found who were possible because of age and/or marital condition I narrowed the field by geographical location and distance. The result was the only two I mentioned. With Mary Elizabeth tucked up in bed in Ballarat it meant the only 'available' ( ) possibility was the daughter of Jakeh and Philippa. For the time being at least she must be considered the mother of Lucy and the reasons for what followed remain unknown. The name 'Lucy Waters Glasson' suggests that John Hollow was not the father so perhaps that had something to do with it? CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 17, 2011 3:58:13 GMT -5
The more I look into this the more convinced I am becoming that 'our' cousin Mary was the mother of Lucy Waters Glasson. (remember that she is the direct descendant of the sister of my 4xgt-grandfather!) After all, she and daughter Cecilia built up quite a track record over the years! ;D The 'known' children of Mary are:- 1. Cecilia born 1864 (more on her later!) 2. Catherine born about 1871 or 1872 3. John born about 1878 or 1879 4. Alma born 1882 In the June Qtr of 1872 Mary married John HOLLOW. Just who this John Hollow was is a mystery at the moment for two reasons. 1. the marriage appears to have occurred in a Chapel or possibly the Registry Office 2. JOHN HOLLOW NEVER SEES THE LIGHT OF DAY In the 1881 Census Mary has Cecilia, Catherine and John with her but there is no sign of her husband. At this point things begin to get really interesting - especially in the absence of husband John Hollow! Catherine is age 9 which means she should have been born in 1871 or the first half of 1872 by my calculations. NOTE:- her 'parents' were not married until at least April and possibly as late as June 1872! Unless she is one of two females registered with the same Page Number in 1871 then there is no birth record in FreeBMD for Catherine Hollow and whichever way you look at it her age suggests she was born before the marriage took place or at least very soon afterwards! (in 1891 'Katie' Hollow, age 19, was a servant at the Western Hotel in Penzance) And then we have young John Hollow who is age 2 at the time of the 1881 Census. FreeBMD shows only one possible birth registration for John but in this case we have a baptism. John Glasson Hollow son of Mary Hollow of Treloyhan baptised 1st January 1880 Halstown (born 14th February 1879) NO MENTION of the father!!! And then of course we have young Alma arriving in 1882. John GLASSON Hollow and no mention of a father at the baptism causes at least my eyebrows to be raised more than just a little! ;D And if I am beginning to wonder just who the father was at this point then I am even more suspicious come 1882! ;D And then we come back to daughter Cecilia. What a darling little girl .............. and Just Like Mum! ;D If you look closely at the 1891 Census you will see that old Jakeh Glasson has himself surrounded by grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And amongst these is great-grandaughter ANNIE GLASSON BERRIMAN age 9. Now Cecilia Glasson married John BERRIMAN in the September Qtr of 1885 at which time she was just 21 There can be little doubt that Annie Glasson Berriman must be Cecilia's daughter which means that she was just 17 when Annie came along. And I have a sneaking suspicion that John Berriman was not the father! I also think that the child was registered as Annie GLASSON in the March Qtr of 1882. And, just like mother, her husband never sees the light of day! A track record worthy of the addition of Lucy Waters Glasson I am thinking! ;D And if daughter Catherine was on the way then it may provide a reason for Lucy to have been 'nursed out' in 1871. CT |
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Post by sue on Mar 17, 2011 8:56:06 GMT -5
Now then, now then! ;D  I might call it, a healthy love of life! ;D And all that alcohol at The Cornish Arms could go to your head, you know! So, Mary Glasson 7th child of Jakeh Glasson~Phillipa Quick. We have: [/li][li]bptzd 1844 Lelant [/li][li]servant age 18 in 1861 to the mine agent in Halsetown [/li][li]illegitimate daughter Cecelia born Sep Q 1864, father unknown [/li][li]maybe/pos.probably 2nd illeg daughter Lucy Waters Glasson born 20 Aug 1870 Halsetown, bptzd St Ives 25 May 1871 - how about a father James Waters, on board boat in Penzance in 1871 census - "everyone loves a sailor"!. We'll never know... [/li][li]daughter Catherine Hollow? Glasson? without evidence of birth registration born 1871/1872 [/li][li] Marriage - hurrah! to John Hollow Jun Q 1872. NB Sister Emma Glasson married in a Penzance chapel even though both parties were of Halsetown; Mary may have done similarly. [/li][li]son John Glasson Hollow born 14 Feb 1879 bptzd 1 Jan 1880 Halsetown to Mary Hollow of Treloyan no father mentioned.... (he dies Sep Q 1907) [/li][li]1881 census Mary grocer @ Trelyon has children Cecelia 17, Catherine 9 & John 2 with her. Doesn't say widowed; says married. [/li][li]1891 census they are with Jakeh at the pub - now I've always liked him; please don't burst my bubble on him, I shall get cross! [/li][li]Alma Hollow has arrived in March Q 1882, apparently last child to Mary (nee Glasson) Hollow - who is still married, not widowed. [/li][li] Daughter Cecelia has gotten married in Sep Q 1885 to John Berriman, having already, unmarried, had someone's child in Mar Q 1882, Annie Glasson ; [/li][li]followed by legitimate child Cecelia Berriman born 15 Nov 1885 bptzd 13 Jan 1886 St Ives of Trelyan, Halsetown, father John = farmer[/li][li]then William Berriman born 10 April 1887 bptzd 6 Jul 1887 St Ives to Cecilia & father John Berriman farm labourer of Treloyan Halsetown [/li][li] & lastly Edward Berriman born 3 April 1890, late baptism happening 10 Feb 1899 at St Mary's Halsetown, by which time father John Berriman = "farmer, late", and Edward acquires the middle name "Evans". "Evans"? Not a big name in the locality.... [/li][li]1901 census Cecelia the younger plus her "aunt" Alma Hollow are both working at the Tregenna Castle Hotel @ Trelyon , while Mary Hollow now 56, daughter Cecelia Berriman 36 (both reckoning they are still married) plus young William & Edward are at Pulmanter Water Halsetown, right by the church young Edward was baptized in. [/li][li] Mary dies Sep Q 1908, by which time she has watched [/li][li] daughter Alma also become an unmarried mother, to Cecil Rhodes Hollow born 1902 (who goes on to marry 1925 Staines; die nearby age 46 1948) [/li][li]1911 Cecil is in Falmouth visiting a family called Prior - into which cousin Cecelia Berriman, also present, has married - with no apparent illegitimate children! Hoorah! But after all this, it still doesn't "feel" right for one of the illegitimate children, Lucy Waters Glasson, to be permanently fostered out ; although I can see that mother Mary Glasson may have been pregnant soon after with next child Catherine. As to the mysterious John Hollow, there has to be a possibility he is a gallivanting abroad miner much of the time, like some of Mary Glasson's brothers, e.g. William (Billie) Glasson, who did both South Africa & the US between UK censuses.... John Berriman apparently working on the land has less excuse for invisibility........ Ah well........ Sue |
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Post by sue on Mar 17, 2011 13:33:24 GMT -5
Just found Alma Glasson in 1911 - in Devon, working as laundress at the Devonport Workhouse...... (born 1882 St Ives).
The good news is, this means she too eventually married ;D, Mar Q 1912 Plymouth to a Stanley Venner, who in 1911 was working at the nearby Plymouth workhouse as barber & bath attendant, born Launceston, same age........
And they had offspring Alfred J in Plymouth Dec 1912; then wandered off to Wales, Pontypridd where Alfred died 1913 age 1; Edward T was born Jun Q 1914 & Iris L was born Sep Q 1917 & died there age 1 1919.
Alma died Jun Q 1931 Plymouth, hubby apparently having died 1925 back where he came from in Launceston.
Blimey, what else will be found if we pursue these "wandering angels"?
Sue
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 15:05:14 GMT -5
CT and Sue
I am in the same frame of mind as Sue here - it does not seem right for Lucy to be left out in the cold so to speak. Could it be possible that young Mary did not travel to Australia with the rest of the family, rather waiting until the parents were settled for example? Then getting herself in the family way she had the child prior to leaving for Australia?
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 17, 2011 21:00:07 GMT -5
The Noose tightens! ;D The family of John Glasson and Mary Hosking as I have it after having just found a couple of extra children:- Marriage - 16th October 1852 Ludgvan Mary Elizabeth bp. 27th March 1853 Ludgvan (of St Erth) Eliza Jane bp. 5th November 1854 St Erth (born 2nd August) Annie born c. 1856 John bp. 5th July 1858 St Ives Wesleyan Methodist Circuit age 5 months Josiah bp. 2nd June 1862 St Ives Wesleyan Methodist Circuit (born 13th May) William bp. 28th December 1864 Ludgvan Wesleyan Chapel (born 13th November 1864) Margaret Hosking (1868-1869 Victoria) William Hosking (1870 Victoria) Lilian (1875 Victoria) I have not found a death/burial for William (1864). From a combination of Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923 (Ancestry) and the Public Record Office Victoria Passenger List Indexes we have the following:- Arrival Port - Melbourne, Australia Arrival Date - 9th February 1867Departure Port - Liverpool Ship - Morning Light Mary GLASON age 35 Mary E GLASON age 13Eliza J GLASON age 12 Anne GLASON age 10 John GLASON age 8 Josiah GLASON age 4 William GLASON age 2 I have not found an arrival for John but he may have arrived in Adelaide. He may also have travelled to South Africa, America or New Zealand before arriving in Victoria. Verdict of the Jury (Well, Verdict of me anyway ) Mary Glasson daughter of Jakeh and Philippa Glasson on the charge of being the mother of an illegitimate child by name Lucy Waters Glasson - GUILTY! ;D ;D CT |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 21:53:55 GMT -5
CT
Yes that seals it.
I thought that I had just had a wee victory with Josiah -
I did not have him in my lot but found that he married Emily Maude Welch at Ballarat in 1886, so you beat me to that one as well.
I as always appreciate your help, many thanks.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 17, 2011 23:05:03 GMT -5
It's not a race mate - teamwork did the trick. |
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Post by tenpoundpom on Apr 25, 2014 1:34:19 GMT -5
Now then, now then! ;D I might call it, a healthy love of life! ;D /li][li]daughter Catherine Hollow? Glasson? without evidence of birth registration born 1871/1872 Sue You may have already worked this out over the last few years but... Born Mary Catherine Hollow DOB 24 October 1872 Bapt Lelant 12 August 1874 Father John, Miner Mother Mary Residence Treloyan in Halse Town S. Ives (Cornwall OPC) Birth registered Q4 in Penzance (RD) 1872 (GRO) Birth notice in Royal Cornwall Gazette 7 December 1872 |
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Indexed in Ancestry for 1871 as LUCY G CASSON! 
