Tho. Hosking & Cha[rity] his wife 2nd November 1711 Richard Hoskin & Cath. his wife 23rd June 1716
I will try to locate them in the PRs but I cannot promise just when that will be.
I realise that another secondary source may not be of much value, but the CFHS marriage index for Crowan (said to make extensive use of the Bawden work) gives the following:
Richard HOSKIN / Catherine - / 23 Jun 1716 Thomas HOSKING / Charity - / ?? ?? 1711 [2 Feb 1711/12]
Seems to imply that the date is now unreadable for the latter entry and I don't know what the evidence would be for the interpreted date. However, you may care to bear it in mind when checking the original image.
Post by annafhall48 on Oct 23, 2010 16:15:37 GMT -5
Hello all - Firstly, thanks to kerthen & CT for all your data and hard work! Secondly, apologies for not paying closer attn to dates when names are duplicated over the generations. So glad to finally have the correct parents for Thomas Hocking, husb of Sarah Taylor, and grandparents of my ancestor Prudence Hocking!
I have a final (?) question: - there is another burial date for a Thomas Hocking: March Quarter 1848 Helston District Vol 9-page 94. I have no age in order to determine which Thos this is, but it's the date bettina originally had for "our" Thos, husband of Sarah Taylor. CT posited that the Nov 11, 1845 burial in Crowan was the best match for Thos because of his age at death: 67. Is there an age listed for the 1848 date by any chance?
Would like to contribute a few bits of info based on names mentioned in posts - hope they may be helpful to others:
- From St Erth Marriages 1701-1919 - Bride and/or Groom from Phillack/Hayle: Thomas Hocking Ralph, age 20, miner, abode: Mt Pleasant married Marena Rodda, age 21, abode: Mt Pleasant May 21, 1859 - Banns (This would appear to be Thos, son of Wm Ralph and Elizabeth Hocking, born 1839)
- Wm Hosking married Jane Rodda Oct 23, 1847 in Phillack - Thos Hosking married Sally Rodda April 15,1848 in Gwithian. Thos was the son of Thos Hosking & Agnes Carthew. (Sally was bpt Aug 14,1825 in Crowan) - Thos Hocking of Camborne married Mary Carthew April 6, 1810 in Phillack.
- CT's reply #25 mentions the wife of Bartholomew Hocking (b 1711) - Ann Harris. They married 1740, in Phillack. I believe she was the dau of Thos Harris (bc: 1690) and Ann Vivian. Barth & Ann were the parents of Barth (bc 1746) who married Theodosia, dau of John,1773 in Camborne. Theo appears in the will of Grace Harris 1768.
Anna asked about the Thomas HOCKING whose burial was registered in the March Quarter 1848 (Vol 9, p 94), wondering who he was and if an age was listed. I don't know who he is, nor what age he is. The best way to learn more would be to order his certificate of death.
I do know from the burial records of Crowan that he was not buried there. I have the films of the Crowan records at our local Family History Center and I went back through the film today to see if there was another Thomas HOCKING besides the one buried Nov 11, 1845 (husband of Sally TAYLOR) buried in Crowan. There is not. So he must be from another parish, unless someone forgot to enter his name in the burial records, which is always a possibility!
But I have a death certificate for Thomas HOCKING (which gives his date of death as 7 November 1845). I also have a photo copy of the transcription of his will and a copy of the death duty register for his probate. No question that he is the husband of Sally. I found it interesting, however, that all his children inherited -- even Elizabeth, who had died prior to Thomas's death. I presume this is because she left descendants. Her children are not mentioned in the death duties, but Elizabeth is one of the children listed. They are all there.
The Thomas Hocken RALPH and Merina RODDA that Anna mentioned are my gg-grandparents. Yes, Thomas was the second son of William RALPH (b 1806) and Elizabeth HOCKING. Thomas and Merina had 11 children -- 5 born in Cornwall and 6 more born after they moved to Millom, Cumberland in the late 1860s.
Elizabeth Hocken RALPH, oldest daughter of William & Elizabeth (HOCKING) RALPH, married John BRYANT at Phillack in 1861. They had one son, William John BRYANT, born at Phillack in 1861. William married Jane BELLIS of Crewe and had 8 children in Cheshire.
The unfortunate confusion of HOCKING with HOSKING in written records makes it sometimes difficult to sort out the families. I have seen a number of HOCKINGs who were written HOSKING when they could only have been HOCKINGs. It's always useful to keep a running tally of HOSKINGs, too, in order to make sense of them all.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2010 0:33:34 GMT -5
I have just been through all the records I have for Burials in the Helston District and it looks most likely that this Thomas Hocking of 1848 was probably at either Ruan Major or Landewednack (or possibly Carnmenellis).
Those appear to be the only Parishes I do not have covered.
But of course there may be another problem.
Just because his death was registered in the Helston R.D. it does not necessarily mean that he was also buried in one of the Parishes in that district.
Post by annafhall48 on Oct 24, 2010 15:56:48 GMT -5
Hello again - You all might be interested in these exchanges I've had with a Hockin, who seems to be quite certain that name variations indicate the people are not related. Don't know quite what to make of this. anna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Original Message ----- From Dave To Anna Sent: 4/18/2010 Basically, "HOCKIN"s and "HOCKING"s are not related, or connected, except in one or two instances. The main connection is the case of a Cornish HOCKIN, who moved to Plymouth with his wife and children, and then emigrated to America. There they had at least one further child, and the registrar there got the surname wrong, and wrote the child down as being HOCKING!
Of course, from here USA HOCKINGs ensued! However, they have no connection with the general body of HOCKINGs in Cornwall, really being HOCKINs in "disguise"!
HOKYN and HOSKIN (and HOSKING and HAWKIN(S)) have no connection with either.
The two lines of HOCKIN come from two parts of Cornwall, though they may have originated in one line. One group was based in Phillack, and the other further north around Wadebridge. The fomer "emigrated" into England - firstly Devon, Manchester and London), and then to the USA. The latter group emigrated generally to Canada. Mine is the Wadebridge line. The Phillack line are the legitimate holders of the coat of arms - this is not so for the Wadebridge descendants. I believe that both lines were aware of each other, and may have been in contact with each other, and there may be a common origin way back in earlier tiimes.
Simply put, I have no information at all about Cornish HOCKINGs, concentrating on the know HOCKINs, and the few american HOCKINGs that are known to have descended from the one emigrant mentioned above. The Cornish HOCKINs and HOCKINGs have not been related or connected at all to my knowledge, each keeping to different parts of the County.
I've searched though my Brother's Keeper files, and I'm sorry to say that I can find no mention anywhere of a Prudence, nor a Sarah Taylor(Hockin(g)) and a connection with a Thomas Hockin(g).
My best wishes, Dave>> ==================================================== >>From: Anna To: dave hockin Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: Hockings of Cornwall
Hi Dave - thot you might like to know that we've made a lot of progress on the Hockin(g)/Hawkin/Hocken/Hoskin/etc family of Cornwall. They are in fact interrelated, and their names are "interchangeable" in various records. There's a message board you might want to check out if interested in further info:
cheers, Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>I'm sorry Anna, but I see nothing there to show any connection between the "in" and "ing" groups, or for tht matter , any other similar surnames. The only existence that I know of occurred in the USA, when a Phillack Hockin emigrated from Plymouth to the USA, his surname in Cornwall and Devon was Hockin, and so were his children born there, but a registrar in the US miswrote the surname for the child born later in that country, and that gave rise to a collection of Hockings in the USA who really ARE Hockin!
The lines of Phillack and Wadebridge Hockins stayed quite distinct both in name, and in district, from the Hockings, even when in relatively close proximity. Neither I, nor the researches of Miss LaTouche, found evidence of intermarriage between the two surnames, so I can only assume that if any such DID happen, it was by ignorance of either the registrar in question, or the illiteracy of the parties involved. With regard to the Phillack branch, I think this last to be highly unlikely, as they were all very well off, mostly in the church and other professions, especially the law, and so were very well educated, and literate. Many of the Wadebridge Hockins were in various trades, in which to be unlettered would have been soon disastrous for any form of business, so I think again for it to have been unlikely for them not to know their surname!
I agree with CT. I would have to completely rewrite my family history if variant spellings denoted separate families.
Most of our ancestors were illiterate, and the entries were inputed by the local parish man as he heard the name pronounced and as he believed it was spelt.
Simple stuff and really no need for discussion. I am just returning from Cornwall and even my own name lends itself to be misspelt - the locals pronounced it Glazzon, I spell it Glasson and pronounce it Glason - that is not sounding like "Glass" rather "Lass".
Last Edit: Oct 24, 2010 22:23:35 GMT -5 by Deleted
Totally agree with CT and Lannanta. My gg-grandfather was Thomas Hocken RALPH, the Hocken being a reference to his mother's surname, HOCKEN/HOCKING/HAWKEN -- it's been spelled all three ways in the family.
Maybe the Wadebridge lot spelled theirs only one way, but I sincerely doubt it. In any case, if you are not connected to the Wadebridge lot you don't have to worry about how they did or didn't spell their name. We of West Penwith spell it however we want -- no lack of imagination for us!
To be fair to "Dave", family names did get fossilised into a particular form of spelling as literacy increased and names were recorded in more official records - however then he goes on with the old tosh about which branch is entitled to use the coat of arms!
That aside, I have now looked up some work I did in trying to reconstruct the Kerthen Wood community in Crowan in pursuit of my own family research. I have photographs of some of the Godolphin Manor rental records from the CRO - that's the GO77 series. Unfortunately the description of the holdings is imprecise, but there is a tenement just called 'another part of Kirthen Wood formerly Rodda' let at an annual rent of 3 shillings, which from 1746 or before to 1748 was let to William Hoskyn and then the tenancy changes to Thomas Hockin up to at least 1751.
William Hoskyn is likely to be the Wm. Hocken who is listed as one of the ratepayers in Kerthen in 1730-31, as in J.J Beckelegge's transcription of the Overseers' Accounts for Crowan, published in 'Devon and Cornwall Notes and Queries'. I've also looked through the whole of Beckerlegge's transcription and I noticed that at 'Boteda', a Widow Hockin and a Benjamin Hockin were both assessed to pay rates (at 3 shillings and fourpence each) but that's about all the Hocken and variants I can find in Crowan at that time.
Parish registers, land records, are key family history records – the evidence in them of variant spellings for the different events in the same nuclear family are facts that speak for themselves! A bit like published trees, is a confidently expressed opinion: may be right, may be partially right, may be misguided wishful thinking. Researchers need to always come back to the facts, the evidence, whether it suits or not!
It is absolutely fair to say that your contact's opinion concerning his own particular line over a specific limited time period may happen to hold water; but it would leak like a sieve elsewhere, in Hockin/Hocking etc. etc. families and many others!( Going back far enough, I like many others have West Penwith Hockins in my history - a prolific lot!)
I expect if he reflects on the juxtaposition of what he himself has said -
Basically, "HOCKIN"s and "HOCKING"s are not related, or connected, except in one or two instances. The main connection is the case of a Cornish HOCKIN, who moved to Plymouth with his wife and children, and then emigrated to America. There they had at least one further child, and the registrar there got the surname wrong, and wrote the child down as being HOCKING!
- he'll realise that what happened in the instance he refers to would hardly have been a one-off! As others have said, this isn't about education or wealth.
Perhaps he has not had the opportunity to examine actual old registers/microfiches for himself – or to visit the West Country and hear the lovely pronunciations!
Thanks to all for providing such interesting info. I agree too about the Codswallop!! Another question. Sally Hocking(1782) is listed in the 1851 Census as living with her daughter Jane, aged 25, so born in 1826 ish.I don't have her as having a daughter Jane- although it would have been possible- Thomas would have been alive then and Sally abt 44 years old. I have Martha as the last child born in 1827- so Jane would have been born before her. How come not on the 1841 census? Any ideas anyone??