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Post by Sarch on Apr 9, 2009 3:29:18 GMT -5
I have 2 John Jenkyn Quicks and a John Jenkin Quick and a John J Quick
First John Jenkyn Quick b abt 1783 St Ives is the s/o Richard Quick and Honour Jenkyn - I don't have him married to anyone
2nd John Jenkyn Quick b abt 1819 is the s/o George Quick and Mary Gregory - grandson of Richard and Honor Jenkyn - I have him married to Martha Stevens - 7 children
John Jenkin Quick b 1844 St Ives m to Eliza Jane Sisley - 4 Children John Jenkin Q is the s/o John Jenkyn Q m to Martha Stevens and grandson of George Q and Mary Gregory
John J Quick b abt 1873 St Ives - I dont have him married to anyone Son of John Jenkin Q married to Eliza Jane Sisley
Sarch
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 9, 2009 5:16:59 GMT -5
You will need to read through a lot of stuff but you will find a good deal of discussion about this bloke in the QUICK threads. After a lot of 'argument' I have conceded that I must agree with Lannanta that John (had dropped the 'Jenkyn') was the man who married the widowed Elizabeth POLMEAR at St Ives in 1826. There were no children to this marriage. Because he seemed to drop the middle name I took a lot of convincing however the evidence (and a process of elimination) suggests that the link is correct. I am still in debate with Lannanta over this one as I recall! The names of the children of this couple suggest to me that it is more likely he was the son of William who married Elizabeth CURNOW at St Ives in 1803. The son of George was baptised in 1820 and the son of William and Elizabeth in 1819. Again - you can read the discussion on this one and at some stage I am sure Lannanta and I will reach agreement. Apart from the above regarding his grandparents this is exactly what I have for him. At the moment I have not tried to pursue this family any further forward. With so many of the earlier families still requiring attention many of the later people have had to 'wait their turn'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2009 21:59:29 GMT -5
CT and Sarch I am really like a bride on her honeymoon with this one - I can't seem to make my mind up. ;D The last thing that I said to CT on this was that I could not accept that John Jenkyn was the son of George given the naming pattern. But that was a silly thing to say, because the twin of John, namely Charles Wedge Quick, didn't name any of his children after his father George either. To discount the entry on the original certificate, which states that John Jenkyn was the son of George, a fisherman means that you have to take an awfully big leap into probability. If he was the son of William, and someone gathering information for the certificate, just happens to make a mistake and names his father George (which doesn't look or sound the same) and it just so happens that there is a brother George Quick who has a son John Jenkyn. CT has said that the use of the name William suggests a father William, which is a valid claim, but there was the common use of William Gregory here (maternal connection), in fact John J. had a brother William. So it comes down to this. If you accept that the marriage certificate for John and Martha is correct then John Jenkyn is the son of George. If you accept that the inclusion of the name William and Elizabeth Curnow in the naming pattern of the children is correct then there was an error in the completion of the marriage certificate and John Jenkyn is the son of William. Personally I am not comfortable with this naming pattern at all. The first son was named John Jenkyn Quick which could have been after the father, uncle or whatever. But the second son, who you would expect to be named after a grandparent was named David Gyles Quick - where did that come from? If you can name the second son David, then you could just as easily name one of your daughters after your Aunt Elizabeth, especially when she is very likely to have been still alive, or maybe just recently deceased. Lots of conjecture but for me the evidence speaks volumes. Lannanta
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2009 2:58:20 GMT -5
CT et al
This subject is starting to bug me again so I will scratch at it for awhile.
Firstly I wondered where the name Wedge came from. I also wondered who Mary Gregory was and I think I answered both questions with the same piece of research.
Mary Gregory, the wife of George Quick and mother of John Jenkyn Quick was probably baptised at St Ives on the 5th August 1781. She was the daughter of William Gregory and Mary Richards who were married at St Ives on the 21st May 1780. Young Mary does not appear to have any siblings. On 26th January 1789 a widow, Mary Gregory, married Thomas Wedge at St Ives. Among the children from this second marriage was a Thomas Wedge and a Charles Wedge, both names appearing in the children of George and Mary Quick.
The naming pattern is quite obvious here, first son after the father's father, second son after the father, third son after the mother's father, first daughter after either the mother or mother's mother, and the remainder named after various uncles or step father.
Now who was David Gyles?
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 10, 2009 6:05:33 GMT -5
Lannanta - agreed regarding Mary GREGORY but I am also still at a loss as to why the name David Gyles was used. I can certainly not see anything obvious in the St Ives records. Of the David GYLES baptised at St Ives within a reasonable time we have, in each case, Richard as the father with mothers being elither Mary NOALL or Elizabeth GEEN. None of those names seem to link anywhere with this QUICK family. And I have so far been unable to find anything suggestive in FreeBMD or in the 1841 Census I will leave this in your capable hands for the time being although I will be thinking more about it. My database will continue, for the time being, to show John Jenkyn QUICK as son of William and Elizabeth. One final observation. Whichever way you look at it the family of John Jenkyn and Martha QUICK is interesting. If John Jenkyn was, as the marriage entry indicates, the son of George and Mary then the only name amongst his children that might be considered some sort of link would be William. (Apart from Matthew and Alice which link to Martha.) There is no George, Mary, Richard, Thomas, Charles and nor is the name Gregory or Wedge to be found. But if John was the son of William and Elizabeth we have a completely different scenario! In this case there are only two names that might be considered 'not to fit'. David Gyles is the most obvious of course - but Alice Stevens is only a 'match' because Martha had a sister of that name. When looking at the parents of John and Martha in this scenario the only name missing is Jane which ws the name of Martha's mother. We have:- John Jenkyn - obviously after father David Gyles - *********** Martha - again obviously after mother William - after John's father Elizabeth Curnow - after John's mother Matthew Stevens - after Martha's father Alice Stevens - after Martha's sister This makes it 'look' obvious that John must be the son of William and Elizabeth yet his father is named as George in the marriage entry! Take away David Gyles and the argument is even more compelling in my opinion. So if we can find something/anything about David Gyles we may be close to an answer. CT
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Post by newlyn on Apr 10, 2009 10:54:03 GMT -5
There was a David Gyles b. 1848 St ives married to a Jane.
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Post by davidkingmartin on Apr 10, 2009 12:30:45 GMT -5
This may be the same person: David Giles Quick 12 Aug.1847 (Methodist Bap., St Ives), wife Jane Quick. David died 1919, I think (FreeBMD). 1881 Census: child Jane L. Quick 1873. Boarder: Richard Lander. 1901 Census: David with g-son David Gyles Thomas, aged 9. David`s siblings incl. John Jenkin Q., Matthew Stevens Q.. and Elizabeth Curnow Q. , as previosly posted on this site. Parents COULD be: John J.Quick, died 1883 and Martha (Stevens?)...1851 Census. John J`s siblings could be: Thomas Wedge Q., 1823 and Charles Wedge Quick. All this has been "posted" by others.
My interest is in "Gyles" or "Giles". Mary Giles 1797 Sancreed, husband John Williams, child Hannah Giles Williams 1826-1901, who married William Rowe...blood relatives of mine. so it is "hunt the Giles"! David.
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Post by Sarch on Apr 10, 2009 12:47:05 GMT -5
David Gyles Quicks' daughter was Jane Lander Quick
Marriage Ref St Ives 2 Aug 1891 by Banns Barnabas Thomas 19 bachelor Fisher of St. Ives (Father: Barnabas Thomas, Fisher) Jane Lander Quick 18 spinster of St. Ives (Father: David Gyles Quick, Fisher) Witnesses: Adam Lander, Nancy Thomas
I have a child for Barnabas Thomas and Jane Lander Quick a son, David Gyles Thomas b abt 1892
S
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Post by Sarch on Apr 10, 2009 12:51:31 GMT -5
Just looking at the 1881 Census
Could David Gyles Quicks' wife be Jane Lander? There is a Richard Lander boarding with them (brother-in-law?) - another motivation for this is daughter Jane's second name of Lander?
Dwelling St Peters Street Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability David G. QUICK Head M Male 33 St Ives, Cornwall, England Fisherman Jane QUICK Wife M Female 33 St Ives, Cornwall, England Jane L. QUICK Daur Female 8 St Ives, Cornwall, England Scholar Richard LANDER Boarder U Male 26 St Ives, Cornwall, England Fisherman
Sarch
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Post by newlyn on Apr 10, 2009 13:10:46 GMT -5
Hi David
Some Giles names and dates for you.
Mary Giles b.11.6.1797 Sancreed married John Williams 28.3.1820 Gulval. Marys parents were Henry Giles and either Mary Daniel Married 16.2.1793 Madron or Henry Giles and Mary Harry married 5.11.1796 Morvah. The above Henry was born in Sancreed 27.5.1764 and his parents were Henry Giles and Hannah Trenbath who married 30.4.1763 St Just. Henry the husband of Hannah was born 20.3.1736 Sancreed and his parents were Joseph Giles and Elizabeth Angwin who married 29.4.1721 St Just.
Joseph was born 15.3.1695 Morvah and his father was Thomas born 10.2.1653 Morvah. Thomas father was Nicholas Giles.
The above info not fully checked by me.
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Post by davidkingmartin on Apr 10, 2009 15:40:52 GMT -5
Thanks, Newlyn. The info. is very interesting and I shall be pursuing it further. Another "brickwall" may be collapsing.... David.
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Post by davidkingmartin on Apr 10, 2009 15:50:02 GMT -5
Another Giles. This has been debated on this forum before, but one or two points of detail may not have been mentioned. Fanny Harry Giles, St.Ives, c1830, wife, possibly, of Matthew Quick, Tailor. 1851 Census: with sister Francis and her mother Johanna. 1871 Census, St.Ives: household includes two boarders: Charles A. Quick and Israel Quick. David.
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Post by newlyn on Apr 10, 2009 16:25:12 GMT -5
Hi David
1841 census has: Hannah Gyles b.1786 Children: William Gyles b.1816 Samuel Gyles b.1826 Frances Gyles b.1826 Fanny Gyles b.1829 All born Cornwall and living at St Andrew Street, St Ives
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2009 17:53:32 GMT -5
CT Look at it from another perspective. William not being named after John's father, rather after John's grandfather William Gregory - which is exactly what the twin of John - Charles Wedge did. Charles had two opportunities to use the name George and didn't. So that would leave us with only one name that pointed to John being the son of William - Elizabeth Curnow Quick. Now, given that both George and William are dead, and most likely Mary nee Gregory as well, Elizabeth Quick nee Curnow is the only surviving aunt when these children are born. The more I think about this the more I think that the "looking obvious" is more unlikely in this particular case given the other strong evidence. If you take away the David Gyles you say that the case is more compelling - but you cannot do that because David Gyles is the main reason that you cannot rely on a standard naming pattern in this case - he simply does not fit but for some reason this family felt bound to name their second son after him rather than after either of the grandparents or great grandparents. Happy enough to leave it at that. Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 11, 2009 8:38:24 GMT -5
Well I will leave my database as it is for now with the note regarding the Marriage entry. David Gyles obviously 'meant something' to John Jenkyn QUICK and/or his wife but from what I could find/not find last night it was nothing to do with being related. CT
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