|
|
Post by newlyn on Jan 25, 2009 9:31:59 GMT -5
I am looking for the ancestors of Philadelphia Leah b.7.7.1811 in
St Buryan d.1891 St Buryan. She was married to Martin Lavars b.1808 Sancreed d. 1872. They were married 7.7.1832 in Paul.
Philadelphias Mother was Philadelphia Maddern b.25.5.1788 in Sancreed and I have the Maddern line going back to 1682 and beyond.
Philadelphia Leahs father was Andrew Leah b.1784 in Paul.
He married Philadelphia Maddern 8.11.1806.
If anyone has any information about the ancestors of Andrew Leah it would be much appreciated.
Thankyou
Newlyn
|
|
|
|
Post by Mal on Jan 25, 2009 11:55:11 GMT -5
I have a lot of Leahs, they abounded at Paul and environs in the 1600's especially, I'll have a look for you!
|
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Jan 25, 2009 13:24:42 GMT -5
Thankyou malcolmdavies.
It would be good to crack another brick wall.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mal on Jan 25, 2009 15:10:15 GMT -5
Hi Newlyn.
I have had a poke around and have some titbits at least, although probably not what you were looking for.
For now,
The details you gave me seem to match however....
children of Andrew Leah and Philadelphia Maddern
Henry Maddern bapt 14 May 1809 St Buryan
Elizabeth 1 bapt 21 May 1815 St Buryan
Elizabeth 2 bapt 18 May 1817 St Buryan
Nanny Leah bapt 27 Nov 1820 St Buryan
Marianne Leah bapt 13 July 1823 St Buryan
and then...
Andrew Leah bapt 15th Nov 1834!!!! This needs checking....!
Now back to Andrew I,
As of yet I can't find an Andrew for the date you give. The date is very precise not to have the parents, where did you get it from? What I do find however is an Andrew Leah born 1767 and died 1775 to James Leah and Elizabeth.
Now if this poor little Andrew died in infancy and James and Elizabeth had another son, it is quite likely that they called him Andrew. The 1784 date is not too late for it to be out of the question. This would also explain the naming of two daughters Elizabeth.
The problem with this is that the only wedding I can find is in 1754, James Leah and Elizabeth Davy at St Hilary. This is not out of the question again, we would need to know the ages, but it would mean 30 years between wedding and birth.
Okay Newlyn, have a look at this and mull it over, in the meantime I'll keep working on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mal on Jan 25, 2009 16:18:32 GMT -5
Quick note, just check Philimores and can only find James Leah and Elizabeth Davy and Andrew Leah and Philadelphia Maddern in the over 4000 entries... could be the ones we are lookng for afterall. If I were you, and I know about brickwalls!!!  , I'd look at the lateral lines to see if there be any connection. I did note that at Philadelphia Maddern Leah's wedding there was one Angwin Leah as well as Martin Lavars snr as witness... can't find Angwin Leah anywhere. |
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Jan 25, 2009 17:18:46 GMT -5
Thankyou malcolmdavies for the Leah info.
The birth year of 1784 for Andrew Leah came from a reliable family source.
Andrew Leah bapt 15th Nov 1834 was the above Andrews son.
30 years between wedding and birth seems an awfully long time!!!
I will double check dates with family and get back to you.
Newlyn
|
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 26, 2009 7:25:33 GMT -5
Re the marriage of Jmes LEAH and Elizabeth DAVY at St Hilary in 1754.
I believe Elizabeth to have been the daughter of Pentecost DAVY who married Catherine STEPHENS at St Just in Penwith in 1730.
Pentecost is supposed to have then married Elizabeth TONKIN at Sancreed in 1735.
Now, if the 1784 date for Andrew LEAH is correct (i.e. actually born that year) then James and Elizabeth are highly unlikely to be his parents.
Elizabeth DAVY was baptised at Sancreed 12th August 1733 and so would have been 51 in 1784.
I must point out that some of this is information sent to me many years ago and I have not yet thoroughly checked it myself.
And I currently have no children listed for James and Elizabeth - but that is purely because I have not yet searched for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mal on Jan 26, 2009 11:15:04 GMT -5
Hi CT, those were my thoughts but there again we have a very late Andrew Leah born 1834 to Andrew Leah born 1784 and Philadelphia Maddern born 1788. This would make Philadelphia 46 at Andrew's birth if I have done my sums correctly. As you can see, Newlyn has it on good authority that the dates are correct.
If it is of any use, something my Gran pointed out to me a while back when we were talking about family trees and the like....
"The summer lambs, i.e. the very "late" born children, were often the illegitimate children of the daughter. The grandparents claimed the child as their own in order to avoid disgrace, as it was in the old days." My Gran reckons that this happened right up until the 1940's at least, especially with so many children born at home. So, if Gran is right we ought to be very careful with the assumptions we make, afterall we are dealing with a world in which there was no DNA testing etc. until 1837 no civil registration etc. Another thing my Gran pointed out was that in the event of the above the children were often baptised in a different parish, for logical reasons. If I live in Paul and my wife of 47 turns up at the church with a new born baby tongues might wag, especially seeing as no one has seen her visibly pregnant over the last nine months!!! So what do I do? I go to Saint Buryan or Saint Just and visit an old relative and convince the vicar that we have come to baptise our child in the old family parish at last....
I am not saying this were always the case, but it is worth bearing in mind...
|
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 26, 2009 11:55:51 GMT -5
Ne'er a truer word spoken!  I have seen this often enough and, in fact, I believe I came up with that very idea in a solution to a query on this site not so long back. ;D I even have a Birth Certificate for a TREWHELLA that clearly states the names of the parents. From memory this is about the 1870's. But some serious checking proved that the 'parents' were actually the 'grandparents' and the child was the illegitimate child of an unmarried daughter of said grandparents. CT |
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Jan 26, 2009 14:52:15 GMT -5
No more news on the Leah dates, just awaiting a message from family source.
Bear with me!
|
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Jan 26, 2009 16:45:09 GMT -5
I have had a message back from my source and it is possible that James and Elizabeth could be Andrews parents.
Also Andrew b.1834 could possibly be the son of Philadelphia Leah b.1811.
Nothing concrete but all dates still seem to be correct at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 26, 2009 19:41:36 GMT -5
Looking at IGI I would now have to say that there appears to have been another Andrew LEAH.
According to IGI the Andrew s/o James and Eliz. who was baptised at St Just in 1767 died in 1775.
The 1851 Census at Sennen shows Andrew LEAH age 67 with wife Philadelphia, 64, and son Henry age 25.
Andrew LEAH age 70 of Mayon was buried at Sennen 13th April 1853
Philadelphia LEAH, age 79 of Tredinney, St Buryan was buried 26th September 1866 at Sennen
Will have another look around later on today.
CT
|
|
|
|
Post by Mal on Jan 27, 2009 8:03:11 GMT -5
Hi CT,
My feeling on this is that we may have one Andrew Leah who died and then a younger sibling baptised Andrew Leah, both to James and Elizabeth, as was often the way in the old days. Of course this is just a hypothesis but it would tie in with the naming of Andrew Leah's daughter(s) Elizabeth, a possibility at least.
I am eager to see what Newlyn comes up with as it does give a sense of satisfaction when you "break down" a brick wall.... think it's time for some Pink Floyd.
|
|
|
|
Post by myghaelangof on Jan 27, 2009 11:41:42 GMT -5
Hi Newlyn, It may be worth reviewing the following marriages to see if any children can be located: All at Paul parish: 15 Jan 1774 John LEAH = Joan HARVEY (& same day: 15 Jan 1774 James Harvey = Jane LEAH) 5 Sept 1770 Richard LEAH = Blanche ROWE 10 Feb 1766 Christopher LEAH = Jane HOCKIN 20 Jul 1761 Thomas LEAH = Mary TREGURTHA. Half a dozen female LEAH's getting married in Paul 1772-1784. Another couple of possibilities at Madron: 7 Jan 1783 John LEIGH = Mary TALLAM 28 Sept 1781 Daniel LEY gent = Alice BODILLY Regards Mike |
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Jan 27, 2009 12:05:26 GMT -5
Thanks Mike, I will start and pursue the Paul names. I have been searching all day for Leahs and getting nowhere fast. I have come across a new Andrew Leah b.1861 married to Peninnah Mann b.1861. They married in St Buryan 7.11.1886. This info is not proven by me. But there were no parents for Andrew  The parents for Peninnah were Charles Mann bap.18.7.1824 Paul and Elizabeth Ann Penrose b.1837. They were married in St Buryan 22.8.1856. Onwards again |
|
, I'd look at the lateral lines to see if there be any connection. I did note that at Philadelphia Maddern Leah's wedding there was one Angwin Leah as well as Martin Lavars snr as witness... can't find Angwin Leah anywhere.
