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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 28, 2015 18:38:40 GMT -5
Except that there are so many Quicks involved Mary's family is not really so difficult. She was baptised at Towednack 17th September 1826 to James Quick and Mary Quick who married at Towednack 26th March 1825. James Quick was baptised in 1797 to William Quick and Elizabeth Hollow who I am sure you already know. Mary Quick was baptised at St Ives in 1803 daughter of James Quick and Elizabeth Quick who married at Towednack in 1790. James Quick 1766 Towednack son of Robert Quick and Ann Michell Elizabeth Quick 1766 Towednack daughter of James Quick and Catherine Trewhella That should help you see where she fits in. CT
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notslow
Noweth
After a hair scratching moment, deleted a tree started again matched Sir John Quick right family
Posts: 4
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Post by notslow on Aug 29, 2015 3:38:06 GMT -5
Except that there are so many Quicks involved Mary's family is not really so difficult. She was baptised at Towednack 17th September 1826 to James Quick and Mary Quick who married at Towednack 26th March 1825. James Quick was baptised in 1797 to William Quick and Elizabeth Hollow who I am sure you already know. Mary Quick was baptised at St Ives in 1803 daughter of James Quick and Elizabeth Quick who married at Towednack in 1790. James Quick 1766 Towednack son of Robert Quick and Ann Michell Elizabeth Quick 1766 Towednack daughter of James Quick and Catherine Trewhella That should help you see where she fits in. CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 12, 2022 19:21:17 GMT -5
Hello CT
I don't think there was ever an answer to this post from a long time ago, especially the reference to the parents of Wilmot Thomas QUICK?
I was wondering if you could give me your view?
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2022 5:54:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure that any absolutely conclusive documentary proof might ever be found to prove this one way or another but from my own point of view I think there is little doubt about Wilmot having been the daughter of Robert Quick and Catherine Trewhella. Robert Quick and Catherine Trewhella each had a sister named Mary but there mother's were Elizabeth and Catherine respectively which means the Vicar never mistakenly wrote the mother's name in the baptism record.It is interesting to note however that the name of the mother in the two previous baptisms at Towednack was named Mary. The Towednack BTs for 1824 actually commence halfway down a new page and as a consequence of that the baptism for Wilmot Thomas Quick is entered on the first line of a new page. The reason for the top of the page being left blank was probably to clearly separate the 1824 baptisms from the preceding page of 1823 baptismss which took up a full page by the time the Vicar had written his endnotes and the Chruchwardens had signed. I have not seen the actual Parish Register for these entries so I don't know whether the Vicar started a new page for each year. Some Vicars did and others didn't. Two entries prior to that of Wilmot Quick was a baptism for June 19th for James son of William and Mary Curnow. But the entry immediately prior to that of Wilmot Quick was dated July 18th and was the first of 5 baptisms entered for that day. In that case it was the baptism of John Wills Berriman son of John Wills and Mary Berriman. It is quite likely these entries were all recorded at the same time so it is possible this is where an error occurred. (I have seen many examples of that exact error in the registers.) The one thing that certainly could help solve the problem once and for all would be if we could locate Wilmot's illegitimate daughter in the 1851 Census. She can be found in the 1861 Census with the family but so far I have had absolutely no luck at all with 1851:- Elizabeth Jane Quick (mother's name not recorded) was registered in the September Qtr of 1850 Volume 09 Page 183 27th November 1850 St Ives (from Parish Register) Elizabeth Jane daughter of Wilmot Quick of St Ives The only other piece of 'evidence' I can offer to link Wilmot as daughter of Robert and Catherine is the birth of daughter 'Catherine Q Penberthy' about 1854/5 at Towednack. There appears to be no record of birth for her and nor have I found a baptism entry but the 1851 Census shows Catherine Q Penberthy age 6 born Towednack as the third child of John and Wilmot Penberthy. Catherine is also with the family in the 1871 Census but prior searches have failed to find her after that. Nevertheless, it is obvious the 'Q' would stand for 'Quick' and therefore logical to suggest that Catherine Quick Penberthy was most likely named for her maternal grandmother. Best I can do to answer your question. CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 13, 2022 14:28:45 GMT -5
CT, just as a matter of interest I think this is the 1851 Elizabeth Jane Quick
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 13, 2022 23:55:18 GMT -5
I somehow either missed or perhaps overlooked her when I checked yesterday - perhaps because of birthplace. But yes, you are quite correct, a check of the GRO Index indicates this is the same girl. (Caveat - unless there was another birth that was not registered or not indexed.)
Unfortunately it does not help answer the question of Wilmot's parentage as I had hoped.
CT
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Post by zibetha on Apr 14, 2022 17:40:31 GMT -5
Both Elizabeth Jane Quick a/k/a Penberthy and Catherine Penberthy moved to the USA. In the 1889 Census, Catherine can be found in Randolph, New Jersey with husband Charles Wills and son Thomas born 1878. They later moved to Laurium/Calumet Michigan and were there in 1900 with Catherine's brother James Penberthy.
Charles Wills remarried in 1908; I am looking for KC Elizabeth Jane (wife of Edward William Lewis) was also in New Jersey at one point as their oldest daughter, Anna, was born there around 1872. They had a daughter, Wilmot Catherine born in 1879 in Ishpeming, Michigan. A son, Edward Jr, named a daughter Wilmot C. That family eventually settled in Illinois.
There was also a William Penberthy (born about 1865) with wife Emily who lived in both Randolph, New Jersey and Ishpeming, Michigan with his family-- ditto for a brother, Richard.
Zib
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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 14, 2022 21:57:15 GMT -5
Zib
Yes I agree they did travel to USA but probably not at the same time.
In 1873 a Penberthy family of 7 persons travelled to the USA on the SS Minnesota. Every one of those seven persons ages match this family except the eldest John, if you were to accept that this is the father, then his age was 10 years out. Those passengers were: John 35, Eliza 22, Wilmot 16, Richard 14, Mary 10, William 8, and James 4.
The interesting point here is that mother Wilmot is missing, as is Catherine as you rightly point out.
In 1880 US Census John Penberthy senior, his married daughter Mary, and sons William and James are at Randolph in New Jersey. John senior states he is a widower.
To date I have not found a passenger list for Wilmot senior, a death in the UK, or a death in the USA.
Maybe she died after the 1871 census and before the ship sailed in 1873, maybe she travelled with or without her daughter Catherine, and therefore maybe she died in the USA.
So a mystery exists for Wilmot. First her baptism entry is incorrect, second there is no birth/baptism record for her daughter Catherine, and third there is no death for Wilmot.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 15, 2022 2:52:22 GMT -5
I am trying to work on this from another angle to see if a death/burial can be found for Catherine so that I might be able to cut through some of the 'smoke and mirrors' created by the abundence of misinformation created from the records I've looked at so far.
I have now reverted to trying to correctly identify Charles Wills who, working from the records referred to above, was born sometime between 14th March 1843 (as recorded on his death certificate) and July 1860 as recorded in the 1900 US Census!! And then there is the name of his mother which, according to his death certificate, was Eliza. But according to the record of his second marriage his mother's name was Ann MORGAN!
I've just now tracked down Charles to a baptism at Helston in 1849:-
Charles son of Thomas and Ann Wills of Church St, tailor was baptised 2nd April 1849 Helston
With the help of FreeBMD that then led to the marriage of his parents:-
15th March 1840 Helston Thomas WILLS of full age widower tailor of Helston son of Benjamin Wills labourer and Ann MORCOM of full age spinster of Helston daughter of Christopher Morcom ropemaker by Banns - Witnesses:- William Tremellin, [illegible, illegible] (groom signed, bride made her mark)
I will now work from that information and see where it leads. Anything useful will be posted as I find it.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 15, 2022 6:12:01 GMT -5
And yet more 'misinformation'!!!! There is an Ancestry Family Tree for Charles Wills and Catherine Penberthy that has 'some' reasonably useful information. BUT I need to add a 'buyer beware' comment. According to this tree Charles and Catherine had just one child - (Charles) Thomas Wills born in New Jersey January 1878. I have no reason to doubt that and in fact a copy of his death certifcate is linked to this tree and shows his parents as Charles Wills and Kate Penberthy. Charles Thomas Wills died August 18th 1914 at the Calumet at Hecla Hospital in Calument. The best I can make of his cause of death is 'struck by skip at 12th level of No 14 shaft'. All well and good ..................... until a close look is taken at the death certificate in this same Ancestry Tree for the elder Charles Wills. That particular certificate states that Charles died at Osceola, Michigan 26th December 1915. It is this certificate that offered the birthdate for Charles Wills as 14th March 1843 and named parents as Thomas and ELIZA Wills. However, if you look further down this certificate and read the details of the Informant you will see that the informant was CHARLES WILLS jr!!! Rather odd given that he is supposed to have died 14th months earlier!!! But the first red flag here should probably be that the death place for Charles Wills in 1915 was in OSCEOLA when the family had been at Calument since before 1900 and were there in the 1910 Census. Another look at the 1910 Census though shows that there was indeed a Charles Wills at Osceola with wife Ancylena and four children still living at home. This Charles stated he was age 65 and had been born in England. Whether or not he was born in Cornwall may be debatable as there were a number of Charles Wills births registered throughout England during the 1840s but as he was in a mining area of Michigan which had lured countless Cornishmen it seems more likey he was a Cornishman himself. There was a Charles Wills born at St Agnes in 1845 to John Wills and Eliza Hicks and there was also a family of Thomas Wills and wife Eliza (Tyzzer) although they did not appear to have a son named Charles. Bottom line is that I have now extracted myself from a little thorny garden path and now have to revisit the deaths of Charles Wills and Catherine Penberthy. One step forward and five back! ho hum! CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 15, 2022 10:43:27 GMT -5
I can find neither hide nor hair of Catherine Quick Wills after 1900 or her husband Charles after 1910 but on reviewing the Ancestry Family Tree I quoted earlier I realised that it included a copy of the death certificate for Lillian O. Wills (i.e. Olivia Wills formerly Bartle nee Cornish). And that provided yet another twist in the saga!! On this Certificate Lillian O. Wills is described as the 'widow of James Bartle'!! There is no mention of or even hint of her second marriage to Charles Wills. And just to confirm it is the correct person the names of her parents as recorded on the certificate are Thomas Cornish and Elizabeth Whitford - this is an exact match to the information provided in the record of her marriage to Charles Wills. In the 1910 Census Charles and Olivia Wills were at Calument, MI, along with Charles' son Thomas from his first marriage and Olivia's children Franklin, Henry, Myrtle, Russell and Alvin Bartell. In the 1920 Census Olivia 'Bartle' was living in Detroit along with her youngest children Russell and Alvin AND her widowed mother Elizabeth 'Corish' (read Cornish) age 82. So Catherine Wills nee Penberthy 'appears' to have died sometime between the 1900 Census and the marriage of Charles Wills and Lilly Barkell in 1908 whilst Charles himself seems to have died sometime between the 1910 and 1920 Census. Problem is ................ I can still find no trace of either!! CT
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Post by zibetha on Apr 15, 2022 15:01:43 GMT -5
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Post by zibetha on Apr 15, 2022 15:11:45 GMT -5
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 15, 2022 16:16:54 GMT -5
Thanks Zib - I actually found both marriages and identified the parties concerned but was so fixated on the core people in the problem that I neglected to mention it.
James Bartle died 21st April 1904 at Ishpeming and was buried at Lake View Cemetery in Calumet 3 days later. And it was at Calumet in 1908 that Olivia Bartle married Charles Wills which makes it very odd that no trace of Catherine Wills can be found given the family had been at Calumet in 1900.
CT
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Post by zibetha on Apr 15, 2022 16:48:05 GMT -5
Good. I think I have identified the man who died in 1915 as Richard Charles Wills 1843 known/shown as Charles on various records. He was the husband of Ann Selina Uren and son of John Wills and Eliza Hicks of St Agnes. John's father was Thomas, so perhaps the reason for the name on the death certificate. He and his family were living at Osceola by the 1900 Census. There was a son Richard Charles Jr who could have been the informant. That would leave us with Charles and Catherine both missing in action. This keeps getting more complicated Zib
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