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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 13, 2023 3:28:12 GMT -5
CT et al I was wondering if you had John Quick, born 14th August 1857 at Lux Street in Liskeard in your database. He was the son of James Quick and his wife Margaret nee DUNN. I do not actually think there was actually a marriage but I could easily be wrong there. Just wondering if you had a connection to James? Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2023 1:04:46 GMT -5
Yep, I do actually have him in my database but only had a year of birth from the GRO. I will add the details supplied but if you have anything more it would be appreciated. What I have is that he appears to have taken on the surname SARAH after the marriage of his mother Margaret Dunn to Nicholas Johns Sarah in 1864. He married Minnie Ratgien at Te Arai, NZ 11th January 1886 and that he died at Hakaru 11th July 1929. I don't have anything on Minnie except that she died at Hakaru 11th July 1929 and both are buried in St Michael's Cemetery in Hakaru. After looking more closely at this I see it is much more murky than it first appeared!! So standby ....................... Easy bit first - James Quick was baptised at St Enoder 26th September 1828 to John and Philippa (Teague) Quick. He died at Wangaratta Hospital, Victoria (about 30 minutes away from me!!) 13th November 1893 and left a Will which you should probably have received by the time you get this. The main story revolves around Margaret Dunn so here is what I know:- Part 1 Margaret daughter of William and Elizabeth Dun of Crowan, miner, baptised privately 18th June 1832 at Crowan (William Dunn and Elizabeth Pascoe married 25th April 1825 at Camborne) Margaret Dunn married James Vial at Liskeard in 1850 (James son of Robert and Elizabeth Vial (nee Goldsworthy) baptised privately 14th November 1825 Camborne (publicly 28th January 1826)) (I don't have any children from this marriage nor do I have any details about what happened to James Vial) Part 2 John Quick born 1857 at Liskeard to James Quick and Margaret Dunn Part 3 Samuel Dunn VIAL born at Liskeard June Qtr 1861 - mother's name not recorded (illegitimate) Liskeard 19th June 1862 - Samuel Dunn QUICK of the Borough was buried age 1 Part 4 Elizabeth Margaret QUICK born at Liskeard June Qtr 1863 - mother's name not recorded (illegitimate) (from Ancestry FT - born 23rd June 1863) (she married Duncan Stewart at St Michael's, Hakaru, NZ 27th March 1888) Part 5 Nicholas Johns SARAH married Margaret VIAL December Qtr 1864 Truro R.D. (he baptised 3rd May 1835 at Germoe son of Thomas Sarah and Mary nee Johns) - Edwin Henry Sarah born 1864 Devonport - Rittorio Pascoe Sarah born 1867 Hakaru, NZ (died 1872) - Sarah Anne Sarah born and died 1867 Hakaru, NZ - William Thomas Sarah born 1869 Hakaru, NZ - Cordelia Anne Sarah born 1872 Hakaru, NZ - Nicholas Samuel born 1875 NZ (presumably Hakary but I am not sure) Somewhere along the line John Quick became known as John SARAH as noted above with his marriage to Minnie Ratgien. The father of Elizabeth Margaret QUICK in 1863 is still a mystery to me - James 'may' have been responsible and, I suppose, he may have been responsible for Samuel Dunn VIAL in 1861 as well but I simply don't know. And I also do not know at this stage when James Quick arrived in Australia - that could have a bearing on things. CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 14, 2023 4:00:56 GMT -5
Snap CT!!!
The reason I selected the same James Quick as you is because at the birth of John Quick in 1857 his father James was said to have been a lead miner. When I looked at my spreadsheet the only James who is listed as a lead miner in 1851 is the James of 1828 of St Enoder and who is living with a William Merrifield at the time. On the 1893 death entry is says that James was 36 years in the Colony of Victoria. I will need some time to get my head around the NZ connection, but I am pleased we are on the same wavelength here. Thanks for the Will etc. The certificates I am quoting are among the ones I sent you and most are also at the contribution page on the OPC site. I have sent you the death entry of 1893 for James and the birth entry of 1857 for John.
Lannanta
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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 14, 2023 4:11:44 GMT -5
CT
It might pay to check on a 30 year old Margaret Quick at Liskeard in the 1861 census. She is at the same address as she was in the 1851 census as Margaret VEAL and with James VEAL at that time.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 14, 2023 4:55:33 GMT -5
Ah, yes! I see now that I have previously followed up more on Margaret. I was confused about the parents in 1861 being George and Elizabeth Doubt and when I could not find that link I went in search of a baptism. And there it all was! Margaret was baptised at Crowan 18th June 1832 to William and Elizabeth (nee Pascoe) Dunn. She was the fifth of eight children from that marriage and her father William Dunn was buried at St Blazey 4th November 1838. Widowed Elizabeth (Pascoe) Dunn then married Robert VIAL at Liskeard in 1850. He was baptised at Camborne in 1791 and was previously married to Elizabeth Goldsworthy at Camborne in 1813. Robert Vial died at Liskeard and was buried there 16th July 1857 after which Elizabeth ended up at Devonport where she married George Doubt 28th November 1859. Here is a link to that marriage record on FamilySearch:- www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-QGCZ-V?i=33&cc=1804330&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKCSZ-ZCRGeorge Dought died in the Tavistock R.D. in 1862 and Elizabeth was buried at Menheniot 9th March 1888. AND!!! the James Vial that Margaret Dunn married was the son of her mother's second husband Robert Vial!! I have not been able to find anything about James Vial after the 1851 Census. CT
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Post by donne on Apr 15, 2023 3:41:39 GMT -5
Margaret was baptised at Crowan 18th June 1832 to William and Elizabeth (nee Pascoe) Dunn. She was the fifth of eight children from that marriage and her father William Dunn was buried at St Blazey 4th November 1838. CT Hi CT, I would be interested in your interpretation of the the family of William DUNN and ELizabeth nee PASCOE. There does seem to be an overlap with the baptisms of William DUNN and Elizabeth nee HARVEY living at Nancegollan, Crowan - looking at the 1841/1851 census, the last child this couple baptised was Ann on 15 Jul 1832. By the way, the last appearance in the census of the much married Elizabeth DOUGHT/VIAL/DUNN/PASCOE seems to be in the 1871 census in Gas Street, Camborne living with her brother William PASCOE, which ties up her maiden name quite neatly.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 15, 2023 7:10:15 GMT -5
Hi Roger - I have not looked at the Wiliam Dunn/Elizabeth Pascoe family since 2017 outside of Margaret and her goings on but as I have it in the database at the moment it appears like this:-
William Dunn born about 1801 married Elizabeth Pascoe at Camborne 23rd April 1835
1. William son of William and Elizabeth Dunn of Crowan, miner baptised 21st August 1825 Crowan 2. John son of William and Elizabeth Dunn of Crowan, miner baptised 27th August 1826 Crowan 3. Elizabeth Anne daughter of William and Betsy Dunn of Crowan, tinner baptised privately 31st July 1827 Crowan (Elizabeth Anne Dunn married William Jeffery at Liskeard 29th June 1851 and later remarried to William Kernick at Stoke Damerel in 1879) 4. Nanny daughter of William and Elizabeth Dunn of Crowan, miner baptised 27th January 1830 Crowan (there is another baptism for Ann daughter of William and Elizabeth at Crowan 15th July 1832 - I attributed this as a second baptism but perhaps one of these belongs to the other marriage you mentioned) 5. Margaret - we know about her 6. John born Crowan about 1835 and baptised 1st October 1837 at St Blazey son of William and Elizabeth Dunn of Church Town, miner 7. Samuel son of William and Elizabeth Dunn of Church Town, miner baptised 1st October 1837 at St Blazey and buried at St Blazey 27th February 1838 8. Samuel son of William and Elizabeth Dunn formerly Pascoe of St Blazey, miner baptised St Austell Primitive Methodist Circuit 11th September 1839 (born at St Blazey 22nd March 1839)
That's all I have at the moment.
CT
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Post by zibetha on Apr 15, 2023 22:47:50 GMT -5
Hi, Glazin, CT and Roger -- and I will leave it to you to redirect my post to another thread or let it ride here.
I am revisting 3 marriages:
William Dunn and Elizabeth Harvey married 1808 in Crowan William Dunn (widower)and Elizabeth Harvey (spinster) married 1821 at Breage William Dunn and Elizabeth Pascoe married 1821 at Crowan. (STRIKE and replace with 1825 at Camborne)
The first and second marriages are possibly that of the same man? But I don't think the 2nd and third are. There are previous posts about some of this. I have thought William of the first marriage to have been the son of Richard Dunn and Prudence Ripper. But I have yet to identify either of the Elizabeth Harveys.
Your favorite cousin (ha ha!) Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 16, 2023 1:02:53 GMT -5
Zib - will leave this post here for now as it sort refers to the previous William Dunn post which is connected to the Liskeard discussion. BUT!!! You have me a little confused about the third marriage in your list - William Dunn and Elizabeth Pascoe 1821 Crowan There is no such marriage at Crowan in 1821 or anywhere else. The marriage under discussion here took place in 1825 at Camborne - is it this one your are referring to? CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 16, 2023 2:13:33 GMT -5
Working on the assumption that it is the 1825 Camborne marriage you are referring to then it is reasonably safe to remove it from your query. This is the family involved in the current discussion and William was buried at St Blazey 4th November 1838 at the age of 37. I have not found a baptism for him unless he was the son of Daniel and Mary Dunn at Crowan in 1803 or, perhaps, the son of John and Sarah at Mevagissey in 1802. Nevertheless, as he was born around 1801 he certainly could not have been involved in the 1808 marriage and I can find no other logical marriage for him prior to 1821 without him being almost still in the cradle! The question then is whether or not the 1808 and 1821 marriages might be linked. The one common factor is that the groom in both 1808 and 1821 signed the marriage register with his mark. In 1808 it was an upside down 'V' which is quite firm but produced in two strokes. The left side is quite thick and has a slight curve. It is also of even thickness for the whole stroke. The right stroke appears to be a down stroke beginning slight above the top of the left stroke and coming almost to a point. It is also slightly more than half the length of the left stroke. The mark made by the groom in 1821 is a 'pointed' W with a lean to the right and coming to a long curled finish. I would suggest probably two different hands involved because of the drastic change in the mark. Given there is about 13 years between the two events I suppose it could be the same man but such a drastic change in the way a man signs his name does seem rather unusual. The best way to determine the answer to this might be to check all previous William Dunn marriages back possibly as far as the 1760s. Interestingly enough I have just started to do that and the first one I have looked at is the 1795 marriage at St Erth of William Dunn to Rebekah Jeffery. Although his mark is quite a deal smaller in the register it is eerily similar to the mark made by the groom in the 1801 marriage!! (Remember that the Vicar did not always note when a bride or groom was widowed and often you will find 'bachelor' or 'spinster' entered when in fact one or other or even both parties were actually widowed!!) - makes life fun don't it! In this case William and Rebecca were still having children up as late as 1812 and Rebecca seems to have been buryed at St Buryan in 1820 'of Hendra in Breage age 50'. (Rebecca daughter of Rd. and Elizabeth Jeffery baptised 1771 St Buryan) I have been back as far as 1774 and can find no other marriage where the groom's mark is similar to that made in the 1821 marriage. That, then, opens up the possibility that William of 1808 and William of 1821 might indeed possibly be the same man ............. even with so drastic a change in the way he signed!! Moving on from there I have started looking at the Census and can tell you that the William Dunn baptizing children at Crowan from 1810 to 1832 (with the exception of Margaret and Nanny who belong to the Liskeard conversation) was born at Breage around 1783/4 according to the 1851 Census. His wife Elizabeth in 1851 indicated she was born at Crowan around 1784/5. BTW - the Ann baptised at Crowan in 1832 definitely does not belong to William and Elizabeth at Liskeard and that baptism was not a second baptism for Nanny. Ann is with William and Elizabeth at Crowan in 1841 age 9. Time to log off for a little while so I can pursue this further. First thing will be to try and find a burial that might open the door for the two marriages (1808 and 1821) to be linked. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 16, 2023 2:45:44 GMT -5
Well here is a twist!! On checking back through my database I discovered that I have the Dunn/Harvey in my system already .............. and here is the twist:- Ludgvan 16th June 1849 by Banns Henry CURNOW of full age bachelor miner of Ludgvan son of Richard Curnow miner Elizabeth DUNN of full age WIDOW of Ludgvan daughter of John HARVEY farmer Henry Curnow was born at Ludgvan in 1827 son of Richard and Ann Curnow and Elizabeth Dunn nee Harvey was born at Falmouth about 1802/3 according to the 1851 and 1861 Census. And for your amusement ......... in the 1851 Census Henry Curnow claimed Elizabeth as his MOTHER!!! (His mother Ann was actually still alive and well and lived until 1876!!) But in the 1861 Census Henry was obviously more comfortable and correctly told the enumerators that Elizabeth was actually his wife. So that solves part of Zib's problem. There were two differently William Dunns involved in the 1808 and 1821 marriages. The problem for me now is to recheck and update all the information I have on these various William Dunns and see if I can identify the true previous marriage for William of 1821. And from there I need to try and correctly identify the two Elizabeth Harveys involved given Harvey is the family I am currently working on. My earlier notes suggest the possibility of the Rebecca Jeffery being involved, and it may well turn out that way, but there is still the issue of the way the register was signed by the groom. Until I have gone through that information here are my current thoughts on the identities of the Elizabeth Harveys based on what is in my database at the moment. The Elizabeth born at Falmouth was probably baptised at Falmouth 23rd November 1800 (born 9th June) daughter of John Harvey and Thomasin. This could be John Harvey and Thomasin Wallis who married at Wendron in 1790 but I need to check further. The Elizabeth at Crowan with husband William Dunn is far less clear and I have four possibilities from 1783 to 1786 at Camborne, Phillack and Gwinear! CT
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Post by zibetha on Apr 16, 2023 3:26:44 GMT -5
Need to doa re-check on the marriages, CT my notes are from the OPC and my computer glasses are lost in space (within a small household) But, yes, I meant to write Camborne and 1825 for the Dun/Pascoe marriage.
Zib
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Post by donne on Apr 16, 2023 3:53:01 GMT -5
Lots of interesting twists and turns here, but just to follow up on my query about the offspring of the William DUNN/Elizabeth PASCOE marriage, I note that the surviving children in the household of the widowed Elizabeth at Churchtown, St. Blazey in the 1841 census (with stated ages and approx DOB) are: William Dunn 16 1825 Jane Dunn 16 1825 Elizabeth Dunn 14 1827 Ann Dunn 12 1829 Margaret Dunn 11 1830 John Dunn 6 1835 Samuel Dunn 3 1838
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Post by donne on Apr 16, 2023 4:17:54 GMT -5
Working on the assumption that it is the 1825 Camborne marriage you are referring to then it is reasonably safe to remove it from your query. This is the family involved in the current discussion and William was buried at St Blazey 4th November 1838 at the age of 37. I have not found a baptism for him unless he was the son of Daniel and Mary Dunn at Crowan in 1803 or, perhaps, the son of John and Sarah at Mevagissey in 1802. CT I've tended to assign him to the Daniel DUNN / Mary RODDA marriage, 29 Oct 1797 at Crowan, since he was employed in the mines, as was Daniel, who says he was an 'engineer' in the 1841 census in Crowan. I would agree it's not proof but I would expect Mevagissey families to be employed in fishing/ seafaring occupations.
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Post by Glazin2018 on Apr 16, 2023 4:23:12 GMT -5
Donne
Just for interest sake Elizabeth Pascoe does appear in a census after 1871 - in 1881 at Menheniot.
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Grocers Shop and Post Office, Menheniot, Liskeard, Cornwall
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Kernick Head Married Male 64 1817 Carpenter Menheniot, Cornwall
Elizabeth A. Kernick Wife Married Female 55 1826 - Crowan, Cornwall
Elizabeth M. Kernick Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Menheniot, Cornwall
Elizabeth Doubt Mother-in-law Widow Female 76 1805 Annuitant Camborne, Cornwall
Henry Scholar Lodger Single Male 51 1830 Lead miner St Hilary, Cornwall
She was buried at Menheniot in 1888
Lannanta
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