John Quick of Liskeard

[Cornish Terrier]

Roger - I've never found a baptism for Jane about 1825 but there was a baptism at Crowan 27th August 1826 for a John son of William and Elizabeth Dunn. I wonder if that should actually read 'Jane'.

Will see if I can sort that out while I get the other William and Elizabeth situations under control.

Zib - no problem, I thought that would probably be what you meant. Meantime another twist ....

Henry Curnow and Elizabeth formerly Dunn nee Harvey had a Jane Caddy in the household. She was married, age 28 and born at St Erth according to the Census and she was also recorded as 'sister' to the head of household which was Henry Curnow.

Problem here is that Henry did not have a sister named Jane/Jenifer or anything similar. BUT - there was a 'Jinifer' baptised to William and 'Jinnifer' DUNN at St Erth 11th May 1823. And then at Ludgvan on 25th December 1847 William Henry Caddy married Jane Dunn spinster of Ludgvan daughter of William Dunn miner.

In the 1861 Census Jane Caddy is still in the household of Henry and Elizabeth Curnow but now recorded as 'daughter'. She was, therefore, the daughter of William and Elizabeth Dunn highlighting yet another example of an incorrect entry in the Parish Register. It seemed fairly common for the Vicars to mistakenly enter at least one name incorrectly for baptisms. Either father and son with same name or mother and daughter even though they were actually different.

I need to take a break again now .............. darned wireless keyboard has suddenly stopped again and the wired keyboard is a mongrel of a thing to try and use. Need to reboot the PC to fix the problem else eventually the wireless mouse will also stop!

More later.

CT

[donne]

Apr 15, 2023 22:47:50 GMT -5 zibetha said:

Hi, Glazin, CT and Roger -- and I will leave it to you to redirect my post to another thread or let it ride here.

I am revisting 3 marriages:

William Dunn and Elizabeth Harvey married 1808 in Crowan
William Dunn (widower)and Elizabeth Harvey (spinster) married 1821 at Breage
William Dunn and Elizabeth Pascoe married 1821 at Crowan. (STRIKE and replace with 1825 at Camborne)

The first and second marriages are possibly that of the same man? But I don't think the 2nd and third are. There are previous posts about some of this. I have thought William of the first marriage to have been the son of Richard Dunn and Prudence Ripper. But I have yet to identify either of the Elizabeth Harveys.

Your favorite cousin (ha ha!)
Zib

Hi Zib,
My take on this is that the William DUNN/ Elizabeth HARVEY marriage of 1808 was still going strong in the 1851 census. As far as I can trace, the household seems to have lived at Nancegollan in Crowan certainly from the birth of daughter Mary at Nancegollan, 16 Dec 1813. In the 1851 census, the household consists of William DUNN born Breage age 67, Elizabeth DUNN born Crowan age 66, and the last child they baptised Ann, age 18.

[donne]

Thanks for that, Lannanta. I was interested in the 1871 census in particular, since it proved Elizabeth DOUGHT's maiden name to be PASCOE by its link to her brother. Before the start of this very interesting thread I had confused the DUNN/PASCOE marriage with that of William DUNN/ ELizabeth HARVEY.

[Cornish Terrier]

Back up and running (until the next time the keyboard link quits at least) and some updates that might help resolve a few issues.

There is no doubt now that the William Dunn widower who married Elizabeth Harvey at Breage in 1821 is most definitely the same man who had married Rebekah Jeffery at St Erth in 1795. The marks he made in the register at his two weddings were significantly different but there was about 26 years between the two events and I also have more definite evidence to substantiate the conclusion.

Rebecca Jeffery was baptised at St buryan in 1771 to Richard Jeffery and Rebecca (nee Addicoat). I won't detail that family except to say that Rebecca Jeffery nee Addicoat was buried at St Buryan 29th March 1820 - Rebecca Jeffery of Sethnoe in parish of Breage age 77

Rebecca Dunn nee Jeffery was buried at St Buryan 28th April 1820 - Rebecca Dunn of Hendra in parish of Breage age 50

This is a year and a half before the marriage of William Dunn and Elizabeth Harvey and places the family at Breage. William and Rebecca had two children baptised at St Erth (William in 1796 and Elizabeth in 1798) before relocating to Germoe where a further seven children were born. Their youngest daughter Mary married Thomas Friggens of Gulval at Sithney in 1839.

William Dunn and Elizabeth Harvey married at Breage 18th November 1821 and then apparently returned to St Erth where daughter Jane (Jinifer) was baptised in 1823 with her mother also recorded as 'Jinnifer' in error. The daughter then went on to marry William Henry Caddy at Ludgvan in 1847 and was with her mother and young stepfather in the 1851 and 1861 Census at Ludgvan.

I omitted to mention that when Mary Dunn married Thomas Friggens at Sithney in 1839 she noted that her father William Dunn was deceased. William remarried in 1821 and Jane was baptised in 1823 which, if William was still alive at the baptism, gives us a 16 year window for his death/burial. Having checked the possible burials I can find just three during that period - one at Veryan for William Dunn age 1, one at Lelant for a William Dunn age 17 and this one which has to be our man:-

William Dun of St Erth age 58 buried 24th August 1824 at St Erth

That would give us an approximate birth year of about 1766 which gives us the following options:-

1. William son of William and Joanna Dunn baptised 3rd June 1764 at Breage
2. William son of William and Mary Dunn baptised 5th June 1768 at Breage
3. William son of John and Margery Dunn baptised 26th June 1768 at Crowan

There were also baptisms at Mevagissey and St Agnes in 1762, 1764 and 1766 but I have dismissed them because of location.

I have not made any attempt as yet to see if any of the above might be eliminated but perhaps Roger might already have something that would narrow down the prospects?

As for Elizabeth Harvey - as mentioned previously the 1851 and 1861 Census records indicate she was born at Falmouth around 1802 or 1803. Elizabeth died in 1891 and was buried at Marazion 6th August 1891 at the age of 89. The only possible baptism is the one mentioned in my previous post for Elizabeth daughter of John and Thomasin Harvey at Falmouth 23rd November 1800 (born 9th June).

I will add the 1790 Wendron marriage of John Harvey and Thomasine Wallis along with their children, including Elizabeth, and then proceed to try and identify the other Elizabeth Harvey from 1808 for Zib.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

A small addition to the Falmouth connection - John Harvey and Thomasin Wallis married at Wendron in 1790 and their first child was baptised at Budock in 1791 prior to moving down to Falmouth where the following seven children were baptised.

I have not yet identified Thomasin Wallis and have not been able to find a burial or remarriage for her but it appears John Harvey was from Breage. His first child was daughter Ann and his only sons were named John (died age 3) Peter and John. I checked for potential burials at Falmouth and a John Harvey was buried 14th March 1805 age 57 which approximates his birth at about 1757.

John son of Peter Harvy and Ann was baptized 30th January 1747/8 at Breage! And given the marriage took place at Wendron that is certainly a reasonable conclusion. (His parents would be Peter Harvey and Ann Williams who married at Breage in 1733)

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Re family of William Dunn and Elizabeth Harvey who married at Crowan in 1808 - I am having a few issues with inconsistency of ages with both William and Elizabeth! (And, potentially, also birthplace of each)

The 1841 and 1851 Census indicates William was born at Breage about 1783 or 1784 whilst those same records indicate Elizabeth was born at Crowan about 1784 or 1785. Those to records, even given the possibility of rounding the ages down to the nearest five years, are relatively consisent for both. It is the likely burials and the 1861 Census that begin to cause some issues.

William appears to have been buried at Crowan 17th June 1859 with his age recorded as 78. Elizabeth is a widow in 1861 so this is probably the correct burial yet his age here projects his birth back a few years to around 1781!

Actually, now I look at it again it may be that his age at burial is the most accurate. Unless we consider the 1783 baptism at Helston to parents John and Jenipher or the 1783 baptism at Mevagissey to Charles and Margery Dunn there is really only one possibility. Base on that I am prepared to accept that William was indeed the son of William and Hannah Dunn baptised at Breage in 1782.

The problem now is Elizabeth Harvey who, from the Census records of 1841 and 1851, would have been born about 1784/5. In the 1861 Census her age becomes 77 which moves her birth back a year or two to become 1783 or 1784. (Correction - in 1841 her age is given as 50 so birth 1786-1791)

BUT!!! when she was buried at Crowan 10th January 1787 her age was recorded as 87!! And that now puts her birth right back to 1779 or 1780.

The really big problem here is that her last child, daughter Ann, was baptised in 1832 and subsequent Census records indicate that was probably also the year of her birth. Based on my formula for ages of woman to marry and have children the maximum age, with extremely few if any exceptions, is age 48. Therefore with daughter Ann born in 1832 Elizabeth Harvey surely cannot have been born before 1784.

If we ignore the 1841 Census when her age was rounded down to 50 and allowing that she was supposedly born at Crowan although apprently not baptised there I would suggest the most likely candidates must be one of the following:-

1. Eliz. daugher of William and Elizabeth Harvey baptised 30th November 1783 at Illogan
2. Elizabeth daughter of William and Mary Harvey baptised 14th December 1783 at Camborne
3. Elizabeth daughter of Willm. and Mary Harvey baptised 19th February 1786 at Gwinear
4. Elizabeth daughter of Charles and Mary Hervey baptised 9th June 1786 at Phillack
5. Elizabeth daughter of Christopher and Ann Harvey baptised 27th August 1786 at Gwinear

So before the question of Elizabeth's identity can be answered I will probably need to spend a bit of time trying to eliminate as many as possible from that list.

Without actually doing that I think the most likely has to be the December 1783 baptism at Camborne. But thinking and knowing are two different bags of kippers aren't they.

CT

[zibetha]

Thanks, CT -- No need to sidetrack your research. Number 5 married Edward Glasson who was the son of Edward Harvey and Rebecca Glasson. There are threads re: this, so I am crossing her off the list.

Number 4's mother was Mary Rogers. I have spouses and children for some of her siblings but no further information fo her.

I thought I had placed Elizabeth No. three but as I revist my worksheet of potentially related Harveys, I am having problems with her age re: the couple I thought were her parents being a bit too young.

Will stop at this for now as I don't want to veer from the Dunn connection and go off topic.

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Based on that the 1783 Camborne candidate is probably still the favourite but as you say we don't want to stray off topic. As my Harvey project creeps eastwards the solution may be found anyway.

In fact to try and solve a problem in the Penzance area over the last couple of days I had to shift focus up to a family in the St Tudy/St Mabyn/Bodmin area. The problem was a family of William and Blanch Harvey at Penzance who moved to St Hilary and a family of William and Blanch Harvey in the parishes mentioned above who at one point also appeared to be having children at St Hilary!

I have not completely solved the Penzance problem given the mother's name was not recorded at baptisms but I am finding ways to work around it. So there is hope for the Dunn/Harvey issue to be resolved.

[spikeharwood]

Just looking at some of Tony Bennett's research on the Harveys, he has Elizabeth #2 buried on 21 Dec 1783 with Elizabeth #3 as the replacement. Tony has Elizabeth #3 marrying Edward Glasson. Zib has Elizabeth #5 marrying Edward. The will of William Harvey mentions "daughter, Elizabeth Glasson, wife of Edward Glasson".

[zibetha]

Thank you for that, Spike. I am not familiar with Tony Bennett, but perhaps you can direct me to his research? I need to get better at finding and reading wills.

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

I need to get better at finding and reading wills.

Although I have been hunting Wills for ages and using Kresen Kernow in more recent times to locate many of them I recently found something 'in plain sight' that might interest you.

Using Kresen Kernow can be difficult and somewhat trying because you have to sometimes try many different search terms and then scroll throw a lot of results that are sometimes of not much use at all. But I have found many Wills of interest by spending time doing just that. But ...............

In very plain sight and used by most of us is the OPC Database!

And if you navigate your way to the 'Parish Pages' you will find something very helpful. (On the Home Page look at the toolbar at top and go across to 'Links to OPC Webste' under which you will find four links of which the last is 'Parish Pages'.

Go to your Parish of interest and open up the link and scroll down the homepage for that Parish until you find a section on 'Wills'.

I am not absolutely sure about 'all' Parishes but for quite a number I have looked at you will find a link that will list all the known Wills for that particular Parish.

There will be a list of transcribed Wills (all with links) but the very first item under 'Wills' should be a link to 'A list of available Wills and Probate Documents' - simply click on that link and you will be presented with a PDF document listing all the Wills for that Parish along with the CRO Reference Numbers which can be used to locate the wills in FamilySearch.

I have provided the Links for FS Wills in the past but if anyone needs some help navigating to them just contact me and I will be happy to help.

CT

[spikeharwood]

Zib, Tony has posted here previously (can't remember his user name). He has a private tree in Tribal Pages - with something like 270,000 people in it! I was going to suggest OPC for checking out wills - but CT beat me to it!