JAMES DAVES & LUCY ANN MATTHEWS

[cornishmaid]

I found this snippet which may be of use to someone :

James Daves, baptism at St Paul, Cornwall 1805, son of Christopher and Phillis; marriage at St Paul 1831 to Lucy Ann Matthews, daughter of James (extracted 1879); incomplete certificate that his wife's baptism 1807 was not registered.

(St Paul was the name for the modern parish of Paul, near Newlyn.)

[Mal]

It is an interesting one... may I ask where you found this snippet? I am also looking into a Frederick Davies who married Honour Maddern- I think they may have emigrated post 1841 census as they disappear, my long lost cousin Jenny is also looking into this! I am sure she'll be in touch when she comes back from her fishing trip! Anyway, this info of yours is valuable if not disheartening.... it shows that not everything was registered and at the same time shows that our elusive William Davies born 1800 might actually not exist on anything other than a marriage and death certificate , at which point the brickwall is well and truly mortared up! I hope that Frederick turns out to be a brother of William- something I suspect- and that we may be able to find some more ancestors indirectly!!!! Fingers crossed eh?
Meur ras ty Cornish maid!!!
PS The Phillis Rowe connection is interesting as the C19th Davies family seem to be connected with Madderns and Rowes towards the end of the said century- it could be a case of the cousin thing again!!!

[cornishmaid]

Hi Malcolm, I will pm you my source in the morning

I immediately thought of you when I found it, and of the missing baptism of William Davies. I have the same problem with my William Rowe... no baptism to be found. It is a possibility that he may not have been baptised, but I think he may have fallen into the abyss of missing baptisms at that time in St Ives.

Would be good to know if you find Frederick Davies. It's very intriguing to know where the whole family disappeared to. I have a pile of Davis' I'm trying to sort through at the moment, but none from the Penzance area that I can recall. If anything more comes to light I'll let you know

[jmg]

Hello Malcolm and Cornishmaid,

I am back from fishing.

Frederick (45) & Honor (40) Davis arrived in Australia on “The Elizabeth” in 1849 with children John 18, Elizabeth 16, Eliza 16, Thomas 13, Catherine 13, Frederick 7 and William 4. My cousin has been doing a bit of research in Victoria; she has not been able to find a death for Honor but found a few deaths for Frederick Davis/Davies. Still working on it.

I was going through the census for 1841. I found Frederick, Honor, John, Eliza, Elizabeth and Thomas all at North Street, Madron, Penzance, but no Catherine. I found Catharine Davis aged 5 with William George (60), Mary Boylin (60) and Mary James (20) at Trevarrack, Gulval. This is interesting as Frederick Davis’ father is listed as John Davis and Mary Bowling. Mary Bowling and Mary Boylin is most likely the same person, so we can assume that John Davis is deceased.

I wish I could find a real connection with Frederick and our William Davis/Davies.

jmg

[Mal]

Very interesting indeed.... the Trevarrack address rings a bell and they all seemed to live around North Street at one point. The names are also interesting as they suggest a "precedent". What other information do you have about Frederick?
I have found Frederick Davies' wedding by banns, and also an Anne Davies by banns but will look into it further.... have a hunch we could be on the right track, albeit indirectly.

[jmg]

Information for Frederick Wendell Bowling or Davis, christening 1/1/1807 parents John Davis and Mary Bowling, at Paul, Cornwall.
Elizabeth Davis or Bowling christening 12/8/1821 at St. Buryan parents John Davis and Mary Bowling.
John Davies Bowling christened 3/12/1797 mother Mary Bowling at Paul
John Beard Bowling christened 18/11/1798 aged 3 mother Mary Bowling at Paul.

I haven’t been able to find Mary Boylin/Bowling in the 1851 census. I haven’t been able to find out anything at all about Mary Bowling.

jmg

[Cornish Terrier]

Frederick Wendell was age 2 when baptised (according to IGI) so was born about 1804/5.

Here is the entry from the St Buryan PR Transcript for Elizabeth:-

12 Aug Elizabeth David c/o John Davis (Gentleman) & Mary Bowling of Paul Ch Town, base child

Note that John DAVIS was a 'gentleman'.

From what I can see from a very brief look at the situation it would appear that Mary BOWLING 'may' have been a mistress to John DAVIS.

The 1821 baptism of Elizabeth is interesting as it is 14 years after that of Frederick Wendell.

But in this case we have a transcript of the PR which states that she was 'base born'.

The IGI entries for the three boys is only suggestive although probably similar.

Now let me throw in another:-

Mary Beard BOWLING bp. 4th November 1796 at Madron d/o Mary BOWLING

Seems like an awful coincidence!

Seems to me that we have either two girls named Mary BOWLING (sic.) 'getting acquainted' with the locals around the same time or we have the one girl with possibly two assignations in progress around the same time.

And then there is that gap of 14 years to Elizabeth in 1821.

These are merely observations based on the brief look I have had at this scenario.

I offer this as food for thought and will attempt to look further into it as soon as I can.

[Mal]

I'm confused.....

[Mal]

Okay, let's put this hypothetically, William Davies was born in 1800 in Paul. We now nothing more about him but that would feasibly give us the following
Frederick Wendell Bowling/Davis, bapt 1/1/1807 parents John Davis and Mary Bowling, at Paul, Cornwall.

Elizabeth Davis/Bowling bapt 12/8/1821 at St. Buryan parents John Davis and Mary Bowling.

John Davies Bowling bapt 3/12/1797 mother Mary Bowling at Paul
John Beard Bowling bapt 18/11/1798 aged 3 mother Mary Bowling at Paul.


William Davies born 1800 (early) at Paul.
Problem one:- there is no record of his having other names, I have the death cert which would include that.
Problem two:- as CT points out, there is a big age difference here.

On the other hand, Paul is a small place, the population was quite small and these names have a "ring about them", I have a feeling that whether these be William's siblings or not, we may definitely have some family connection here, I just can't fathom out for the life of me how. Will look into this further....

[Mal]

PS Where does the Wendell name come from? Hmmm.... a lot of head scratching here.

[jmg]

I have just found something interesting which may prove that this John Davis and Mary Bowling are not our William Davis/Davies' parents.
Cornwall Burial Index William Davis Bowling aged 6w 27/1/1801 in Paul.
Now where does leave us.
jmg

[Cornish Terrier]

Now where does leave us.

Up the creek with a tennis racket for a paddle. ;D

I might just sit down tonight and have another look through this and see if I can find a different perspective from which to view it.

There are actually two names involved here the need some consideration.

WENDELL as mentioned is certainly one.

But what about BEARD.

That name occurs twice.

[Mal]

Nil desperandum est.

Let's look at this way...

When we know who William Davies ISN'T we will be able to fathom out who he IS....! That's the way I look at it.

I am certain that these other Davies' are related somehow, again I am not sure.

A couple of thoughts-

William is born at Paul in 1800, this is the one consistant fact we have right through to his death in 1870. This does NOT mean he was necessarily baptised at Paul, and I did find a William Davies baptised in 1800 in Cornwall, the only one, Crowan.
His eldest son is William Henry Davies, his eldest daughter Eliza- parents William and Eliza perhaps??
Perhaps William (snr)'s mother was staying at her family in Paul for the birth? Perhaps he was not brought up in Paul because all the other records indicate Chyandour, Gulval, Trevarrack and later Penzance.

A few thoughts, I'll be back later.....