Sampson Curnow Rosewell - 2 problems

[gandolf]

I put this under the St. Ives board, but it could just as easily have been on the Towednack or Curnow boards as it is relevant to all of them.


I have been working on a Rosewall problem today that I suspect can only be truly proven out by someone with access to the Towednack (and perhaps St. Ives) PRs. I have broken this into two postings, since it is fairly involved.

Part #1 begins with Sampson Curnow Rosewall (bap. 2 Nov 1796 St. Ives, died 1882 Penzance Dist.) who married Elizabeth Cogar (bap. 7 Aug 1809 St. Ives, died 1858 Penzance Dist.) on the 5 Nov 1839 at St. Ives.

The first challenge was sorting out their children.

The 1841 Census has:
Address: Church Town, Towednack
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSEWALL Sampson M 45 Farmer Cornwall
ROSEWALL Elizabeth F 30 Cornwall
ROSEWALL Mary F 1 Cornwall
BONE Mary F 35 Independent Cornwall
RICHARDS Eliza F 15 Female Servant Cornwall


The 1851 Census has:
Address: Hellesvore, St. Ives
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSEWALL Sampson C. Head M M 50 Landed Proprietor Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Elizabeth Wife M F 42 Farmer's Wife Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL John Dau - F 8 Farmer's Daur Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL James Son - M 6 Farmer's Son Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Louisa Dau - F 4 Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Sampson Son - M 2 Cornwall - St Ives
CARE Mary Servnt U F 33 Child's Maid Cornwall - St Ives
MARTINS Nancy Servnt U F 22 Farmer's Servant Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL William Servnt U M 48 Farmer's Servant Cornwall - St Ives
MARTINS Grace Servnt U F 16 Farmer's Servant Cornwall - St Ives


The 1861 Census has:
Address: Terrace, St. Ives
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSEWALL Sampson C. Head M M 64 Farmr 101a Emp 2 Lab 2 Boys Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Elizabeth Wife M F 52 Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Mary Dau U F 20 Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Jane Dau U F 16 Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Lavinia Dau U F 14 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Sampson Son - M 11 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives
CARE Mary Servnt U F 65 House Servant Cornwall - St Ives

From the above census records several anomalies were apparent:
1. Daughter Mary is missing from the 1851 census, but back again in 1861
2. In 1851 the eldest child is a DAUGHTER called John? – Obviously something wrong here
3. In 1861 “daughter John” has disappeared but we now have a daughter Jane, albeit two years younger than the “John” in 1851 – perhaps a transcription error?
4. In 1851 we have a daughter Louisa who “becomes” Lavinia in 1861. This was the most straightforward problem – She is actually Lavinia not Louisa which is obviously a transcription error.
5. In 1861 James is missing from the family.

To add to the challenges, Sampson was apparently slack about registering his first few children. The first one that I can find in the BDMS is James in 1845.

To try and make sense of the problem I decided to compare the FreeCensus info above with the index on Ancestry. Couldn’t find the family at all until I tried searching by Piece/Folio/Page and even then nearly missed them because of how they were indexed.

Name, birth year
KINSALL, Hamkins C. abt 1798
KINSALL, Elizabeth abt 1839
KINSALL, Jane abt 1843
KINSALL, James abt 1845
KINSALL, Lavinia abt 1847
KINSALL, Sampson abt 1849

Yet another indexing problem. Surname as Kinsall, not Rosewall. Father Sampson is “Hamkins” and mother Elizabeth has lost 30 years of age (42 read as 12). However, this index does give Lavinia’s name correctly and also correctly shows “daughter John” as daughter Jane.

Next I went looking for daughter Mary in the 1851 census, and found the following:

The 1851 Census has:
Address: Fore Street, St. Ives
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
CARE Nancy Head U F 55 Dress Maker Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Mary Niece U F 10 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Elizabeth Niece U F 9 Scholar Cornwall - St Ives

The problem was that although this was the only Mary of anything like the right age, she had what looked suspiciously like a previously unknown sister with her, and how could an unmarried Nancy Care be an aunt when Mary’s parent’s surnames were Cogar and Rosewall (neither having previously married).

The problem wasn’t helped by the fact that Nancy Care was one of those people who got continually younger each census (in 1861 she was “only” 62 years old). After pulling out some more of the little hair that I have left it finally made sense. Nancy Care was baptised 1793 at St. Ives, daughter of Edward & Mary Care. Elizabeth Cogar’s parents were Richard Cogar and Jane Care. Jane Care was baptised 1785 at St. Ives in 1785, daughter of Edward & Mary Care. So in fact Nancy was great-aunt to Mary Rosewall. So in turn it follows that Elizabeth Rosewall must surely be a sister to Mary.

Proof of the relationship came when I found the “missing” James Rosewall on the 1861 census.

Address: 1 Church Town, Towednack
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSEWALL James Head U M 16 Farmer 100 Acres Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Elizabeth Sister U F 18 Sister Cornwall - Towednack
NINNES Hannah Servnt U F 23 Servant Cornwall - Towednack
NINNES John Servnt - M 14 Carter Cornwall - Towednack
PHILLIPS William Servnt - M 15 Carter Cornwall - Towednack

There is James with his Elizabeth recorded as his sister.

So to summarise, the I believe the family of Sampson Curnow Rosewall & Elizabeth Cogar to be:
Mary Rosewall, bap. 27 Sep 1840, St. Ives
Elizabeth Rosewall, born circa 1841, Towednack
Jane Rosewall, born circa 1842, Towednack
James Rosewall, born 1845 St. Ives
Lavinia Rosewall, born 1846 St. Ives
Sampson Rosewall, born 1849 St. Ives.

NOTE: I suspect that Sampson (b. 1849) may have Sampson Curnow Rosewall like his father although I have yet to find conclusive evidence to support the fact. But this ties into problem #2 (see next posting)

[gandolf]

Part #2 of the challenges relating to Sampson Curnow Rosewall deals with the son of the original Sampson Curnow Rosewall. As mentioned in the previous posting, I suspect that the younger Sampson may also had Curnow as his middle name.

Like problem #1 I suspect this can only be truly proven out by someone with access to the Towednack PRs.

The 1871 Census has:
Address: 2 Churchtown, Towednack
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSEWALL James Head S M 25 Farmer Of 35 Acres Cornwall - St Ives
CURNOW Elizabeth Servnt U F 50 General Servant Cornwall - Towednack
CHELLEW Vivian Servnt U M 16 Farm Servant Indoor Cornwall - Towednack

Yet by the time of the 1881 census something strange is going on:
Address: Halsetown, St. Ives
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROSEWALL James Head M M 35 Retired Farmer Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL Sarah Wife M F 32 Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Edward J. Son U M 14 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Sarah Dau - F 11 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Lilley Dau U F 10 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Elizabeth C. Dau - F 8 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Mary Dau - F 6 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Sampson Son - M 3 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Levina Dau - F 1 Cornwall - St Ives
ROSEWALL John C. Son - M 8m Cornwall - St Ives

In 1871 James is unmarried, yet 10 years later he is married with 3 children aged 10 or more?

The other oddity that I turned up while trying to sort out this family is some postings on chat sites by someone trying to sort out a claimed relationship to Sampson Curnow Rosewall. The researchers appeared to be in USA, and around 5 years ago were trying to sort out their ancestor Edwin James Rosewall who married Violet Kemp (apparently in Michigan, USA, as they are on the 1901 census at Marquette, MI, USA with sons Edwin George Rosewall & James Kemp Rosewall). The US based researchers claim that Edwin James Rosewall was supposed to be the son of Sampson Curnow Rosewall. Note the 1881 census record above that shows eldest son Edward J. Rosewall born circa 1867. Could this be the same person as Edwin James Rosewall?

James Rosewall married Sarah Curnow at Towednack on 13 May 1873. James was a bachelor (father: Sampson Curnow Rosewall) and Sarah a spinster (father: John Curnow) at the time of their marriage.

From the BDMS (matched also to the 1891 census) , the following children are clearly James & Sarah’s:
Elizabeth Cogar Rosewall, born 1873
Mary Rosewall, born 1875
Sampson Curnow Rosewall, born 1877
Lavinia Rosewall, born 1878
John Curnow Rosewall, born 1880
Georgina Rosewall, born circa 1882 St. Ives
Thomas Rosewall, born 1883 St. Ives
Margaret Ann (Anne) Rosewall, born 1885 Towednack
Ellen (Nellie) Rosewall, born 1886 Towednack
Mabel Rosewall, born 1888 Towednack

But what of the three older children shown on the 1871 census, who were born before James & Sarah married?

I found Sarah Curnow with her parents John & Peggy Curnow on the 1851 and 1861 censuses, and then found the following information on the 1871 census:
Address: 7 Amalveor, Towednack
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
CURNOW Peggy Head W F 64 Housekeeper Cornwall - St Just
CURNOW William Son U M 25 Tin Miner Cornwall - Towednack
CURNOW Sarah Dau U F 23 Assisting Mother Cornwall - Towednack
CURNOW James Son U M 20 Tin Miner Cornwall - Towednack
CURNOW John Thomas Grnson - M 13 Tin Miner Cornwall - Towednack
CURNOW James Rosewall Grnson - M 4 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
CURNOW Sarah Grndau - F 1 Cornwall - Towednack

Note the last two listed people, grandchildren of Peggy in 1871:
CURNOW James Rosewall Grnson - M 4 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
CURNOW Sarah Grndau - F 1 Cornwall - Towednack

Compare them with the two oldest children with James & Sarah in 1881:
ROSEWALL Edward J. Son U M 14 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack
ROSEWALL Sarah Dau - F 11 Scholar Cornwall - Towednack

Sarah is a direct match, and it seems that James Rosewall Curnow has become Edward J. Rosewall. His year of birth is 1867, which makes him a perfect match for the Edwin James Rosewall that the US researchers were trying to find (Edward & Edwin often being interchangeable in the records). This would also explain why the researchers could not find anything. Edward/Edwin was born (and probably baptised) as Curnow not Rosewall, and without access to the all the census records, you would never sort this mess out!

The other older daughter Lilly Rosewall, together with James Rosewall Curnow and Sarah Curnow are all in the BDM records under the surname of Curnow when they are born.

So although James Rosewall names them as his children in 1871, given that they were born as Curnow and were in the same household as Sarah Curnow in 1871 and recorded as grandchildren to Sarah’s mother, they must be children of Sarah Curnow. The question is who their father is, given that it is quite possible that they all had the same father?


The US researchers seem to believe that the father of Edwin James Rosewall was Sampson Curnow Rosewall. The only proven Sampson Curnow Rosewall (see previous posting, father of James who married Sarah) would have been about 70 when Edward/Edwin J. Rosewall was born. Sampson was widowed, so while less likely due to age, he could have actually been the father.

The other possibility is Sampson C. Rosewall’s son, also Sampson Rosewall and brother to James. Given the father was Sampson Curnow Rosewall, and James named his son Sampson Curnow Rosewall, it is likely that James’s brother was also Sampson Curnow Rosewall even though he never appears as such in any records that I have found. Sampson (James’s brother) is old enough (just) to have been the father of Edward/Edwin J. Rosewall. He also dies young, in 1877.

However, given that James Rosewall accepts the children as his in 1871 suggests another more likely scenario. I suspect that James is not only the three children’s father by marriage, but almost certainly their biological father as well.

Note the names of the three children as registered:
James Rosewall Curnow – fairly obviously named after James Rosewall
Sarah Curnow – named after her mother
Lilly Curnow – most likely named after James’s mother Elizabeth, as Lilly can be a diminutive for Elizabeth

What I can’t explain is why the marriage did not take place until six or seven years after the first child was born. My only guess is that perhaps it had something to with an inheritance that required James to be unmarried until he was 28? This seems the most likely given that he is recorded as a retired farmer aged only 35 in 1881.

As to those American researchers, the most likely explanation for why they were looking for Sampson Curnow Rosewall as Edward/Edwin's father is that they had inadvertantly skipped a generation and confused Edward/Edwin's father with his grandfather.

So, as with the first post, if someone has access to the PRs for Towednack that might shed some light on this, I would be most interested to hear whether they do support my thoughts and confirm a father for the three Curnow/Rosewall children.

[Cornish Terrier]

It may take a few days for me to look into this properly but I shall certainly do so.

I do have some of the information in my database but it is very basic.

This information was, however, received from a very reputable researcher some years ago.

Will do my best to have something for you sooner rather than later.

But it may ultimately be up to the 'fire gods'.

[Cornish Terrier]

Gandolf - have had a look at the 1851 Census and it is a real 'pig' to read.

Sampson's christian name is quite difficult and the surname equally so.

However - there is most certainly a 'C' as a middle initial.

Elizabeth's age is, I reckon, 42 - but I can see what has caused the mistranscription.

There is a very faint downwards pen-stroke to the left and a very close and careful look reveals the probability that the digit is a '4' rather than a '1'.

BUT - I would have thought, even as a lay transcriber, that when a female is listed as a 'wife' in the Census 12 might be just a little young to have an 8-yea-old child.

The name of the edlest child is faint but still clear enough - JANE age 8.

Will try and look at more tomorrow.

CT