Barr family of Newlyn/P'zance. Barr/Bar/Bur/Boare?

[Mal]

Hi everyone,

some advice needed,

In my tree I have a bit of a conundrum again......

Harriet Weeks marries Thomas Ellis Vingoe II (1842-1901).
Harriet is the daughter of Hugh Weeks who is married first to Patience Cotton (1839) with a daughter Harriet who seems to diappear from the records, a mystery in itself and then again in 1842 to Martha Barr. "Our" Harriet is born in 1843.

Now to Martha Barr,
So far I have Thomas Barr as a fisherman married to Blanch, we find Blanch Bar on the 1841 census as fisherman's widow living at Nerous Paul born in County, she is living with Patsy Bar. I have a death for Blanch in 1844 too.

I have made a hypothetical reconstruction using BMD and Censuses,

Anne Bar(r) born 1816, married to Henry Richards 1840- one son Thomas Barr Richards. On the OPC record it states that her father is a fisherman, deceased.
Patsy Bar(r) born about 1815-1816 (using census age, not very accurate I know)- disappears from records.
Martha Barr born about 1817, marries Hugh weeks in 1843, gives her father as Thomas Barr, fisherman. does not state that he was deceased... odd but again feasible.

All of these are Newlyn/Paul.

Thomas and Blanch?
The only wedding I can find for any Thomas Barr and Blanch in the UK is Thomas Barr and Blanch James, 15th January 1810 Stoke Damerel, Devon. Furthermore I find no other records fro the couple in Devon.

I find a Blanch James born Paul, 1782 which would make her 28 at marriage, so feasible. But why Stoke Damerel? The census indicates that Blanch was born "In County" but being the 1841 does not say where!!!

The other mystery is this Thomas Barr. Other than a Thomas Barr de Wyke of 1375 !!! I can't find any Barr's in this area, in fact in Cornwall they seem few and far between, more numerous in Devon... Stoke Damerel?

I was at a real dead-end with this one and then I thought about variants of the Barr name, it is not widespread in Cornwall and I thought about Scots migrants. Then I found
Thomas BOARE 19th June 1780, Penzance, son of Henry Boare.

Is it feasible to arrive at BARR from BOARE taking into account a strong West Cornish accent?

Any suggestions? Any ideas on this elusive fisherman from Newlyn, Thomas Barr?

Thanks in advance,
Malcolm

[londoner]

Paul Marriages:
25 Dec 1816 by Banns Stephen Paul [Mark] Elizabeth Ankervis [Mark]
Witnesses: Thomas Barr, Richard Pentreath

This ( and another witness entry as Thomas Bar) are the only references to Thomas I can find - apart from the mention as Martha's father.

The Penzance baptism is transcribed on WPR as Thomas son of Henry BOAZE so not likely to be your man

Stoke Damerel being part of the Plymouth area it is not unlikely that Thomas, as a mariner, not just a fisherman, would sail between there and Newlyn but why Blanch would have married there rather than where she was born is an unknown.
Not so unlikely though that when Thomas died she returned to her birthplace. My gtgt gran returned to Sennen from London!

PAUL Burials: 29 Oct Blanche Baor/Bar[?] of Newlyn aged 64


BTW did you notice that Ann's child Thomas Barr Richards died age 3 in 1849.

I did wonder if Patsy (or as alternately transcribed Patty) could be a mishearing of Matty. No other Martha in Paul at the time altho' i did find a Martha Bar of right age at E.Stonehouse (Plymouth again) And Hugh Weeks (or Wicks!!!) was also not a local - borth Falmouth another mariner.

Sorry cant be of more help this time.

[Cornish Terrier]

This could be an interesting one Malcolm.

Your thoughts about the possible variations of the name should be pursued but it is probably wise to ensure you have checked all avenues for the name BARR.

I just found another one myself while having a quick check of things for you:-

Burials at Paul - 1835

5 Apr Thomas Bar Symonds of Newlyn aged 6m

The Stoke Damerel marriage could well be possible and it may be that Blanch was 'in service' there.

Have you checked for all possible children for Thomas and Blanch?

That would give a good clue as to the possible date of marriage.

The only child to Thomas and Blanch baptised at Paul was daughter Ann 21st July 1816 but I think you already had her.

I guess you are also aware that in the 1861 Census Hugh WEEKS gives his birthplace as Falmouth?

In 1861 and 1881 Martha states she was born at Paul but I can find no record of her. (Even tried a search at Paul for anyone named Martha baptiesed between 1814 and 1818.)

Just had a sudden thought (crikey it hurts ) and tried a search on IGI that was a little different.

Used the Batch number C023411 (bp. 1813 onwards for Paul) looking for any baptisms where the parents were Thomas and Blanch:-

Patty BARN bp. 13th April 1817 d/o Thomas and Blanch

Well - that's one more for you!

CT

[Mal]

Aha,

Barn, I had also tried Barra and Barry but had not thought of Barn. Okay I will look into it. Blimmin spellings!!! The other info I have is much as you state. I have the Falmouth information and the Plymouth connection had crossed my mind with Thomas being a mariner/fisherman... I will look into the Barn thing and get back to you!

On the subject of fisherman and mariners, is their anywhere where we could find a list of vessels and crews etc in merchant service and would this include luggers and fishermen too?

PS I don't know if the word "lugger" is used outside Cornwall, I mean the small fishing boats characteristic of Cornwall- very good for making you VERY sick as I found out on my Granddad's boat one time!!!

[Mal]

Just had a quick check and we may have BARR from BARN from BARNES going on here, Barnes' appear much more frequently in the Paul records and we also have a marriage to the PAUL family, which if I am correct in Blanch (James?) ancestry may suggest a link as Blanch's family have Paul(le), James, and Tonkin in the lines.

[Mal]

Found a Thomas Barne 1763-1825 Paul, would make him a bit old wouldn't it, although not impossible.
Will recheck BMD/Census for others using Barn and Baor as well!!!

[Cornish Terrier]

With regards to Merchant Vessels have a look in the section Cornish Resources then go to Falmouth Maritime Museum and you will find a bit of information there that might be of help.

That baptism I found for Patty as 'BARN' appears to have been a one off as I did not enter a surname of any type when I searched - simply the Batch number for Paul and the parents christian names.

And after reading Londoner's note ........

'Patty' is a most unusual name and one I have never come across before. (Of course I know it later from the likes of The Patty Duke Show.)

But a very strange name for the area and the times.

I am starting to think there is a very good possibility that this might actually be Martha.

Hmmm ... Learn something new every day.

Do a search of the 1851 Census and enter the name 'Patty' or 'Patsy' with no surname and see just how many of the blighters there are!!!

However, Patty BARN is baptised at the right time to be Martha so worth thinking about.

CT