Davies Family---ALIVE!!! Update

[Mal]

Hello!

My name is Davies and I believe I may be descendant of some of the Davies' you have mentioned.

A rough breakdown of my male Davies line based on research on this website, the Vingoe family website and the West Penwith and Madron genealogical resources, plus my Grandmother!!!! Here goes.... if anyone can add to this further back I would be most grateful.


Robert John Davies (b1920 Newlyn d.1995 St Blazey) m Doris Lydia Cann (b. Plymouth 1922 resident St Blazey (2008)
son of
Lieut Robert Davies GC (b1900 St Erth(?). d 1975 Australia) m Isobel Coupland (b,1900 Merriton, Ontario, d. 196?)
son of
John Sampson Davies (b 1867 Penzance d 1937) Newlyn m Annie Vingoe (b1871 Newlyn)
son of
John Davies (mariner/labourer(?)) b. c 1842 and Ellen Bramble b.c1861
[9 Oct 1865 by Banns John Davies 25 Labourer of Penzance (Father: William Davies, Labourer) Ellen Bramble 24 of Penzance (Father: John Bramble, Shoemaker) Witnesses: John Seecombe, Cathherine Seecombe]

(Edit 2010- this line no longer continued at William)
Son of
William Davis???
b. November 14, 1817 Cornwall England d. July 11, 1900 married on August 25, 1839 St. Ives, Cornwall England to Johanna (AKA Hannah) Woolcock b. March 31, 1819 England d. March 30, 1897 England (daughter of Anthony Woolcock)
Note: William was a mariner.
son of
Robert Davis b. 1778 married on June 30, 1799 St. Ives to Elizabeth Harry b. ? d. ?
son of
William Davis b. May 20, 1744 England d. 1810 married on November 20, 1771 Lelant England to Mary Banfield b. September 8, 1751 England
Note: William and Mary resided in Treloyhan (small suburb of St. Ives) he became a "Reeve" a form of Magistrate to administer the laws etc. of the estate of the manor of Connorton. Also, William was a tin miner.
Son of
Robert Davis b. May 21, 1716 St. Austell, England d. April 9, 1781 England Married on May 23, 1743 Lelant Parish, England to Margaret Trevurrow b. May 17, 1717 Kenwyn, England d. December 17, 1769 England (daughter of Tobias Trevurrow and Dorcas Reynolds.
Note: Davis was spelled Davy in Margaret's father Tobias's will.
Robert Davis was living in Towednack at the time of marriage to Margaret.

[Mal]

Have found this information too!!!




webs.lanset.com/azazella/willscor5_pen.html

TOBIAS TREVORROW, yeoman, of Lelant

written: 4 Sep 1762
proved: 21 Sep 1763

daughter: ELANOR w/o GOERGE KELLWAY 1 sh.
granddaughter: DORCAS pied cow
wife: DORCAS all the rest & executrix
trustees: JOHN EDWARDS & HANNIBAL EDWARDS of Lelant
daughter: BLANCH w/o JOHN HOSKING 1/3 after death of wife
daughter: MARGARET w/o ROBERT DAVY 1/3 after death of wife
3 grandchildren: TOBIAS TREVORROW, DORCAS TREVORROW & ANN TREVORROW
c/o son JOHN TREVORROW, deceased 1/3 after death of wife

Tobias ( ) Trevorrow

witnesses: ELIZABETH PREVIN, JOHN MICHELL, WILLIAM ( ) BRYANT

Vol. 8, p. 538




JOAN DAVY, widow, of St. Erth

written: 1 Feb 1724/5
proved: 9 Oct 1727

kinsman: HUGH WHITEING 5 L
JOAN, widow of WILLIAM BARNES 10 L
kinsman: THOMAS RALPH, clerk a gold ring of 1 guinea
LOVEDAY w/o THOMAS HUGH 6 L
cousin: PEARCE JUD? a gold ring of 1 guinea
WILLIAM s/o ROBERT DAVY all my tin bounds in St. Hillary Down &
elsewhere in regard of his father's service in looking after
the same
kinsman: ROBERT DAVY 2 cane chairs
cousin: LOVEDAY w/o MATTHEW REED one other cane chair
JANE & MATTHEW, children of MATTHEW REED another cane chair "all
of which I bought since I sold my Estate of Treneddres to
HENRY COURTIS"
poor of St. Erth 20 sh.
poor of Ludgvan 20 sh.
Vicar of St. Erth a stick of land in Marazion of about 1/2 acre,
now in possession of HENRY TRELUDDRA (with instructions for
the preaching of a yearly service)
kinsman: THOMAS PEARCE, clerk | all ther rest
kinswoman: MARY RALPH | & executors

Joan ( ) Davy

witnesses: THOMAS ELLES, MIRIAM ELLIS

Vol. 8, p. 49

[londoner]

Thanks yet again to the work of Zenobia another family thread unravels! I expect Cornishmaid will have some interesting snippets to add to your St Ives connection!

[cornishmaid]

Hi again Malcolm

I have been having a bit of a closer look at the lineage you traced above, and have an alternative viewpoint which I'll try and outline below. It is the parentage of a John Davies you mention that brought up the query.

You mention the following marriage, which I'll repeat for clarity:

Madron Marriages 1863-19039 Oct 1865 by Banns
John Davies 25 Labourer of Penzance (Father: William Davies, Labourer)
Ellen Bramble 24 of Penzance (Father: John Bramble, Shoemaker)
Witnesses: John Seecombe, Catherine Seecombe

This would put the age of your John Davies at circa 1840. You say that his parents were William Davies and Johanna (Hannah) Woolcock of St Ives. However, looking at my database I do not have a John baptised to William & Johanna, and neither is he in any of the census returns with this family. In addition, at his marriage he is classed as a labourer of Penzance. William & Johannah were living in St Ives.

I therefore wondered if his parentage could be different. Looking at the census returns for a John Davies with a birth year of circa 1840, I found the following family:

1841 - Civil Parish of Gulval, living at Chyandour
William Davis, age 40, Ag. Labourer
Mary Davis, age 40
Eliza Davis age14
William Davis age 11
Thomas Davis age 5
John Davis age 2
Edwin Davis age 1

In 1851, they are at North Street, parish of Madron, Penzance.
William Davis is now a General Labourer, born at Paul, Cornwall
Wife Mary and sons William, Thomas and John are living with them. The sons all listed as being born at Penzance.

In 1861 William and Mary are are living at Ways Court, Penzance, with Thomas H Davies.

By 1871 a John Davis age 30, occupation: Sailor, is married to Ellen, and they are living at Queen Street, Penzance with children John age 5, Walter age 4 and William age 4 months. This John Davis was born at Penzance.

I can't find the family in 1881 as yet, but in 1891 Ellen Davis is listed as wife, age 48, born Penzance, and with her are children William H, age 20, Labourer General; Alfred J, age 16, Stone Mason; and Ellen, age 12, Scholar.

If this is the correct family, I believe that the John Davis who married Ellen Bramble is the son of William Davis and Mary Gendall who married on 21 May 1826 in Madron, and not the son of William Davis and Johannah Woolcock.

So, what do you think? If anyone has any comments/corrections they would be very welcome. I don't want to interfere if you are sure you have all the facts, but just want to make sure you are following the right line.

[amyjopet]

Thank you Cornishmaid, I believe you may have solved my problem that I listed in another post, and I thinking that you are the accurate one, since my info has no other baring behind it other than coming from another source that I can not back up.

Amy

[Mal]

Hi guys,

This is getting interesting, I await birth certs for any real confirmation. I am still interested in Amy's Davies' in other parts. Any info on them would be great as I has plenty of relatives who went to Ohio and to Australia at the turn of the century. My own line went to South Africa but came back.
All info is valid in one way or another.

I am just curious about my GGGrandfather, John Sampson Davies who married Annie Vingoe. Why was he John Sampson Davies if his mother were Ellen Bramble...I can find no Sampson connection anywhere and it has called into question whether my GGGrandather really was the son of John and Ellen Bramble, it gets evermore puzzling!!!! Another strange thing is that my GGrandfather and brothers and sisters all seem to be named after Annie Vingoe's siblings,
Lilian Maude, Margaret Ann, Thomas Ellis and Robert, only Jessie does not fit!!! Why would that be I wonder?

[cornishmaid]

I hope no-one minds, but I am flagging this thread up as it relates to another post which CT kindly added to. I also hope Malcolm doesn't mind me adding that he received the birth certificate of John Sampson Davies, and his parents were indeed John Davies and Ellen Bramble.

My earlier posting on this thread gives my hypothesis on who John Davies' parents may have been. Unfortunately no-one can find John's birth registered, and we have been unable to find a baptism as yet. I have been to the Cornwall Centre this afternoon, but there is nothing there of any help. A trip to the CRO may be needed to proceed further on this one. Anyone going soon?

We have found 3 baptisms to a William Davies in Gulval, as follows:

24 May 1833 Mary Jane, c/o William (labourer) & Mary Davis of Trevarrack (There is a burial on 24 March 1839 of a Mary Davies of Chyandour aged 6.)
7 September 1836 Thomas Henry, c/o William (labourer) & Mary Davis of Chyandour
18 May 1843 Edwyn, c/o William (labourer) & Mary Davis of Chyandour, Private Baptism
(There is a death registered of an Edwin Davies in September 1844, Penzance RD, aged 16 months, burial on 11 August 1844, which may be the same child.)
There is also daughter Eliza Davies, aged 14, with the family in 1841, to which a burial of an Eliza Davies of Chyandour in Gulval on 16 March 1842, aged 15, might relate.

This would tie in with my post above listing this family in the 1841 Census. And if Eliza Davies was their first child she would have been born c. 1827,which would tie in nicely to the marriage of William Davies to Mary Gendall in 1826. I believe Mary Gendall was baptised 13 October 1799 in Penzance, and her father was Thomas Gendal. There is a Thomas in William and Mary Davies' family which would also tie in nicely.

However, why is there no baptism listed for John Davies in Gulval

Any thoughts on this one much appreciated

[Mal]

Hi guys... I can corroborate Cornishmaid's information (PS I don't mind anyone posting on the matter... the more the better so we can get to the bottom of this). Re the comment about the Johanna and John mix up, I was just wondering if Harold didn't make an innocent mistake with whatever information he saw. I have done some archive work and it is easy to get mixed up at the best of times. Anyway, it is driving me mad trying to find out who this mysterious John Davis of 1841 is... seeing as this person his my G-G-G-Grandfather!! (If you can hear me Grandpa then please reveal something!!!! Anyway I have a lot of circumstancial evidence that may point us in the right direction.

1901 census details. Paul, St Peters, Town: Newlyn
John Sampson Davies Head M 39 Blacksmith Employer
Annie Davies nee Vingoe 27 : Jessie Davies 6: Annie Margaret Davies: Robert Davies 5 months. Robet Davies GC is my Great-Grandfather. In 1893 I found a private resident of Belle Vue, Newlyn - Mr. J. Davies and as far as I know my Grandfather R.J.Davies b1920 was born at Belle Vue. The family all lived in and around Belle Vue, Trewarveneth Street and North Corner.... so far so good.
John Sampson is given as being a widower on his marriage certificate. He was previoulsy married to Clarinda Rowe (1890, died 1891). He married Annie Vingoe in 1894. The Vingoe website shows that Annie Vingoe remarried later on, I do not know about this but there was a lot of to'ing and fro'ing between South Africa, Ohio and Cornwall and this might explain it. It seems that the names all come from the Vingoe side of the family... hence Thomas Ellis, Robert, Ann Margeret and later on Lillian Maude.

Anyway.
John Sampson Davies was born in Penzance (Newlyn?) in 1866 and is the son of Ellen Bramble, son of John Bramble shoemaker/cordwainer and John Davies mariner. On the wedding cert there are witnesses Seecombe and John Davies is the son of William, labourer.
Siblings (deduced from census)
Walter born c1867 married Mary Phyllis Maddern born 1866
William born c1871
Alfred James born c1874 married Blanche Jenkin born c1875
Ellen born c1879

Going back further....

1841 -census
Civil Parish of Gulval, living at Chyandour
William Davis, age 40, Ag. Labourer Born Paul
Mary Davis, age 40
Eliza Davis age14
William Davis age 11
Thomas Henry Davis age 5 married Eliza Jane Rowe, 1861 Madron
John Davis age 2 - Let us presume that this is the John Davis we are looking for now.
Edwin Davis age 1

Now a couple of problems emerge. Who is this William Davis of Paul born circa 1800? I found a tenuous possibility in the following
Paul 13-Jun 1826
William Semmens DAVES (b1795) Paul
Mary Semmens BODINNER
I say tenuous because we are about 5 years out on the dates. However on the 1901 census the age for John Sampson Davies was out by about 4-5 years too so let's not write it off yet. Another tantalising clue is this...

EDWIN DAVIES
Christening 17 FEB 1836 Paul, Cornwall, England
son of WILLM. SEMMAS DAVIES MARY SEMERS

And later
18-May 1843
Edwyn DAVIS son William Mary of Chyandour


Now we need an Edwin around 1841? Like John I can't pin him down so accurately. The names also don't mean much either.

We lack a John Davis of around 1841
We are unsure of Edwin/Edwyn
We need a William Davies of Paul born c.1800 who married a Mary (if this is the right family).

Cornishmaid has also proposed Mary Gendal daughter of Thomas, which is possible too. The problem is I cannot nail down a William of Paul either way. Let's hope that by investigating the siblings as well something might come up.

Please feel free to add or suggest alterations...
Hope this helps a little bit.


PS. As I am writing, I am sure that William Davis is given on an early record as having been a miner. Is it possible that he became a labourer in older age?

PS. It seems that there were Wesleyan marriages and baptisms and a couple of private baptisms too. I always thought my family were Anglicans, seems that I was wrong about that. Would this affect the records at all?

[cornishmaid]

Births of an Edwin Davies (Free BMD):

June 1841, Penzance Vol: 9, Page: 223
June 1841, Penzance Vol:9; Page: 286
June 1843, Penzance Vol: 9, Page: 210
June 1862; Penzance Vol: 5c; Page: 238

So 2 births of an Edwin Davies in 1841 Davies in 1841; one born in Paul, the other one born in Gulval? The one born in 1843 in Gulval dies in Sept Qtr 1844 aged 16 months.

Will check the census to find the family in Paul

[cornishmaid]

Have checked the family of William Semmens Daves and Mary Semmens Bodinnar who married 13 June 1826 in Paul, in case they could be possible parents of John Davies born 1841c.

Baptisms attributed to this couple (IGI) are:
William Erastus Daves, bapt 20 May 1827, Paul
Mary Symons Daves, bapt. 30 My 1829, Paul
Mary Semmens Daves, bapt. 26 February 1832, Paul
Edwin Davies, bapt.17 February 1836, Paul

No John Davies, but that doesn't mean anything. So, I tracked the family down on the following census returns:

1841 - Regent Terrace, Madron, Penzance
Mary Daves, 42, Independent, b. Cornwall
Agnes Hichens, 19, b. Cornwall
William Daves, 14, b. Cornwall
Mary Daves, 9, b. Cornwall
Edwin Daves, 6, b. Cornwall

1851
Mary S Daves, Wife, Married, Female, 53, Master Mariner's Wife, b. Paul, Cornwall
Mary S Daves, Dau, U, F, 19, b. Paul, Cornwall

1861 - Regent Terrace, Penzance
William S Davies, Head, M, M, 65, Retired Ship Master, b. Paul, Cornwall
Mary Davies, M, F, 64, b. Paul, Cornwall

1871 - Regent Terrace, Penzance
William S Davis, Head, M, M, 76, Retired Ship Master, b. Newlyn, Cornwall
Mary S Davis, Wife M, F, 74, b. Newlyn, Cornwall
Jane Bennetts, Servant, U, F, 27, Servant, b. Newlyn, Cornwall

In 1861 son William Davis is living in Torquay at Tamer Villa with wife Mary T Daves and children William, Mary,Agnes and Jane. William is listed as being born in Paul, and his wife Mary as being born in Penzance. The children were all born in Torquay, Devon. Also in the house is Elizabeth S H Abbot, servant, born Dean Prior, Devon.

So, no John Davies with this family throughout the census returns. Not irrefutable evidence I know, but there is definitely a John with the other William and Mary Davis. Quite handy that both this William and Mary are attributed with the middle initial of "S" in the census returns, ie Semmens.

So, I think we are back to looking at William Davis and Mary Gendall as being the parents of John Davis born 1841 c. We just need now to find that baptism!! Or even the baptism of his father William.

[Cornish Terrier]

One or two things to add to the mix of information.

William Simonds DAVIS
bp. Paul 1st November 1795
s/o Christopher and Phillis

Mary Symons Bodinnar
bp. 26th March 1797
d/o Oliver and Grace

Now, the William Davis we seek is supposedly born at Paul c. 1800.

The only William Davis (var.) baptised at Paul from 1795-1805 is the fellow above according to IGI.

But because a person was born in a certain Parish it does not necessarily mean that he was baptised there.

Two other possibilities from IGI:-

William DAVIES
bp. 15th May 1796 St Just in Penwith
s/o Thomas and Mary

William DAVIES
bp. 21st November 1802 Scilly Islands
s/o William and Phillis

Not much more I can do with William at the moment but I have done a bit of searching for John.

I cannot find him in any of the PRs I have but, from looking at the Census records, the most obvious place to look does not have the relevant records online - Penzance.

Everything points to the possibility that it will be Penzance where he was baptised so we need to somehow get access to those records.

Find that and we might be going places.

[Mal]

William DAVIES
bp. 15th May 1796 St Just in Penwith
s/o Thomas and Mary

I like the look of that one... dates don't fit but something rings true. Will need more information.

All my Davies' lived at Bellevue, Trewarveneth Street, North Corner and further back at Queen Street Penzance. My Grandfather RJ Davies was born at Bellevue in 1920 and in 1893 there is a Mr. J. Davies living there. On my Great-Grandfather's enlistment papers for the Canadian Army he gives his next of kin's address as Bellevue Newlyn too, this would be 1917-- I will check.
I know that my Great-Great-Great Grandfather John Davies the mariner was a mariner on the Chyandour under Barzillai Beckerleg, I have found him at Briton Ferry, Glamorganshire on the 1881 cenus. The Beckerleg family seem to have been almost exclusively from Paul... so there is some more circumstancial evidence.
As for names, a possible William father of John Davies b1841 (the mariner) gives his children the names

Elizabeth born c1826
William born c1830
Thomas (Henry?) born c1836, later married Eliza Jane Rowe, 1861 Madron ?
John Davis born 1839/40--- note the dates are a tad out.
Edwin Davis born c 1841
There may well have been a Mary who died

Some of the names seem to ring true, but as has been said. It is all circumstancial.