Quick Problem No. 2 - SCANDAL??!!

[Cornish Terrier]

Herewith my long-promised Quick Problem No. 2.

It has taken me absolutely weeks to work on this scenario and I believe I have finally 'cracked the case'.

We begin with two baptisms at Towednack in 1805:-

1. John QUICK bp. 28th April 1805 son of John and Elizabeth (nee OSBORN)

2. John QUICK bp. 4th August 1805 son of William and Catherine (nee OSBORN)

A great start you might think but it gets better before I even begin to look at the real problem:-

1. John QUICK married MARY Ann Osborn at Zennor 4th February 1837

2. John QUICK married MARY Baragwanath, widow, at Towednack 12th October 1824

The first task was to eliminate one of these from the later equation and this proved relatively easy, in fact the easiest part of the whole problem.

1. This John had five children, all sons, baptised at St Ives, Zennor and then the last three at Towednack.
His wife Mary Ann (Osborn) was buried at Towednack 28th March 1857 at the age of 42.
In 1841 John and Mary were at Treveal, Zennor, with sons John and Matthew and then in 1851 they were at Breja, Towednack, with sons Joh, Matthew and Robert.
The last two sons, Richard and Christopher Osborne Quick, were bon in 1852 and 1854 with Christopher being baptised two weeks after his mother was buried.
Christopher, by the way, moved to New Zealand where he married Emma Jane TREWHELLA who was recently widowed after having been married to Simon Thomas MITCHELL.

In the remaining Census up until his death John remained at Breja - in 1861 he had Matthew, Robert and Christopher still living with him and in 1881 son Matthew was still there. (I have not been able to locate the family in 1871.)

John was buried at Towednack 22nd May 1891 'age 86, of Chytodden'.

This left me with only John No.2 to deal with and his age and birthplace were consistent in every Census.

Mary BARAGWANATH was the widow of John BARAGWANATH who was buried at Towednack 18th August 1821.
Mary was baptised 30th November 1788 at Towednack daughter of Hugh and Mary (Geach) DUNSTONE.

Mary was, therefore, about 17 years older then her second husband John QUICK.

There were two sons from the first arriage (John and Wiliam) but I have not yet attempted to trace them forward.

From the marriage to John QUICK there were three further sons - John bp. 29th May 1825 Towednack
James bp. 11th November 1827 Towednack
William bp. 1st January 1832 Towednack (born about 1829)

Again I do not yet know what became of these sons but will attempt to find out once I begin work on the Towednack and Zennor Quicks in proper.

In 1841 John and Mary, along with their three sons, were living at Gonew and nearby at Ninnes was the family of James and Christian Warmington who have some involvement further on in this story.

1841 Census - Lelant

Gonew

John QUICK, 35, frmer
Mary do., 50
John do., 15
James do., 14
William do., 10

In 1851 the Warmington family is at Ninnes Bridge with eight children (as opposed to six in 1841).

1851 Census - Lelant

Gonew

John QUICK, head, mar, 45, farmer, Towednack
Mary do., wife, mar, 66, Towednack
John do., son, unm, 25, Towednack
James do., son, unm, 23, Towednack
William do., son, unm, 21, Towednack

All seems quite well to this point but it is actually from about here that things start to happen.

INTERLUDE

It is only today that I have finally found what I consider to be the final pieces of the puzzle so I will place each piece of data where I believe it should be chronologically and then explain at the end.

The Warmington family is still at Ninnes Bridge in 1861 but by 1871 are at Gonew.

1861 Census - Phillack

Castle Hayle

John QUICK , head, mar, 55, farmer, Towdnack
John do., son, 6, Phillack
Sophia do., daur, 11, Redruth
Catherine do.,daur, 8, Redruth
Leonard do., son, 4, Towednack
Ann do., daur, 4, Lelant
Ann GLAFSON, servant, unm, 38, Phillack

Note that John is still 'married' but now has five more children born from about 1850 at which point Mary would have been about 52 years of age.

Note also that Ann GLAFSON now appears on the scene as a 'servant'.

So, if John is still married then where is Mary.
The only possible death record I could find was in 1853 yet in 1861 John is still 'married'.

1861 Census - Lelant

St Ives Road

MARY QUICK, mar, 72, farmer's wife, Towednack
This is obviously John's wife yet it is not possible she could have been the mother of those five children.

PHILLACK BAPTISMS

8th April 1855 John QUICK son of John and Ann [Glasson] of Penpol, farmer

23rd August 1857 Ann QUICK daughter of John and Ann of Lelant, farmer

21st September 1862 Mary QUICK daughter of John and Ann [Glasson], of Castle Hayle, farmer

In the Transcript of Phillack Baptisms there is a column headed 'Other Name for Mother' in which the name 'Glasson' was entered for the baptisms of John and Mary which indicates these were illegitimate children.

1871 Census - Lelant

Gonew

John QUICK, head, mar, 65, farmer
John do., son, 15
Leonard do., son, 12
Walter do., son, 5
Catherine do., daur, unm, 18
Ann do., daur, 14
Mary do., daur, 7

Mary (see previous baptism) is now with the family as is yet another child, Walter, who would have been born when John was 60.

Also at Gonew is John Warmington who had married John Quick's daughter Sophia.

Gonew

John Warmington, head, mar, 23, miner, Lelant
Sophia do., wife, mar,21, Redruth
James do., son, 5, Lelant
John Q do., son, 4, Lelant
Sophia do., daur, 2, Lelant
Catherine do., daur, 9m, Lelant

No birthplace was recorded against John Quick;s family and it should also be noted that Sophia must have been married at about 15 or 16 years of age.

1871 Census - Towednack

Necledry

MARY QUICK, head, mar, 82, Annuitant, Towednack

So Mary was still alive but is now an 'Annuitant' - it would seem that she and John must have come to some Legal Agreement and I should think that, if it could be located, might make some very interesting reading.

BURIALS - TOWEDNACK

28th May 1873 Mary Quick, age 85, of Cripples Ease

AND COINCIDENTALLY (from FreeBMD)

1873 Penzance June Qtr vol 5c page 528
John QUICK married Ann GLASSON

This marriage must have occurred within weeks of Mary's Burial.

1881 Census - Lelant

Gonew

John QUICK, head, mar, 75, farmer, Towednack
Ann do., wife, mar, 58, Gwinear
Walter do., son, unm, 16, farmer's son, Lelant
Ann do., daur, unm, 24, Lelant
Mary do, daur, unm, 19, Phillack
Margaret H do., g'daur, 3, scholar, Lelant

By 1881 John's daughter Sophia is 31 but has 10 children

John is also married by 1881. (The son to Ann Glasson)
He appears in the 1881 Census at Canonstown, Ludgvan with wife Jane and 7 children.

1874 Penzance March Qtr vol 5c page 463
John QUICK married Jane GILBERT

By 1891 Walter and Leonard are also both married but I will not elaborate on them just now.

It seems to me that Sophia (Quick) Warmington and Jane (Gilbert) Quick must have been 'regular factories' based on their output of progeny. ;D

Do I need to elaborate further. - Probably not.

I think everything is in the above and should only require thought, comment and suggestions.

Where I have quoted FreeBMD I do not have any further detail of the event so would appreciate it if anyone is able to find those details for me.

This includes the events at Redruth.

Well, I had best post this now before I lose it. And should I have any further to add I will do so in a later note.

Enjoy.

John does not appear in the 1891 Census and I think it probable that the following is him (FreeBMD):-

1888 Penzance June Qtr vol c page 174 JOHN QUICK, 82

[Deleted]

CT

I was working through my census data and I came across this scenario again, highlighted by the name Sophia who appears in 1851 with her mother and 1861 with her father.

In the Glasson family there was a guy by the name of Jakeh Glasson who was a 3rd great grand uncle of mine. He married Jennifer Murrish at Gwinear in 1819, had a son John in 1820 and a daughter Ann in 1823 - and I reckon she is the Ann Glasson in your scandal. So 4th cousin Quick meets first cousin Glasson.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - we might have to study this one a bit.

Just working on Census records basically and then IGI I worked out that Ann was likely baptised 5th May 1822 at Gwinear daughter of Thomas and Ann Glasson.

I have not pursued it any further than that so perhaps, if you have time, you might like to weigh up the possibilities of this Ann against your Ann?

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Just had a look at the various Ann Glassons born around 1822 and then compared with my database.

The reason I opted for the daughter of Thomas and Ann was that she stated in the Census that her birthplace was Gwinear.

Daughter of Thomas and Ann was baptised at Gwinear 5th May 1822 so, with her age in the Census matching this, I think it is a logical conclusion that she was the de facto of John Quick.

But it does lead to the question of the identities of Thomas and Ann Glasson.

[Deleted]

CT

No argument from me at this stage. In the 1841 census there are the two Ann's and my one (so to speak) has gone to Polpeor to live with her extended family which also lends favour to the daughter of Thomas and Ann being the correct one.

However saying that, when her father Jakeh Glasson was buried at Lelant in 1823 he was said to have been from Gwinear which tends to suggest that although Ann was baptised at Camborne her family was living in Gwinear near the time of her birth.

I believe that Thomas was born around 1800 in Gwinear, the son of Thomas and Joanna - however it appears as if he did not make it to the 1851 census. In the 1841 census the mother Joanna is also living at Connor Downs with her son John. She is possibly Joan Gilbert and married at St Hilary, however as it is not my direct family I have never looked too close.

It is most likely that this family goes from here back into Crowan or the like - maybe the son of John GLASSON and Ann HAMPTON?? There were other Glassons families in Gwinear and they are related to me.

Lannanta

[Deleted]

CT

One to the Kiwis mate. ;D Ann Glasson was the daughter of Jakeh Glasson and his wife Jennifer Murrish. More details when I get home.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - I have now had a look at the Camborne records and see that Jakeh was 'of Gwinear' when the two children were baptised.

Will be waiting for your further details.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

The marriage between John Quick, widower, of Gonew, Lelant and Ann Glasson of Gonew, Lelant took place at the Primitive Methodist Chapel of St Ives on the 30th June 1873. John was aged 67 years and Ann was 51.

John was the son of William Quick, deceased, farmer and Ann was the daughter of Jacketh Glasson, blacksmith. (He is not stated to be deceased but he was well and truly so).

Therefore this confirms that John was the son of William Quick and Catherine Osborn with Gonew being left to John by his father in a will dated 14th January 1832 and proved in 1842 after the death of William.

Ann was the daughter of Jacky Glasson and Jennifer Murrish. Jacky was baptised at Uny Lelant on the 21st October 1781, third son of John Glasson and Christian Uren of Polpeor. Jacky's brother Joseph Glasson married Wilmot Quick, the daughter of Paul Quick and Jane Quick. Jacky married Jennifer Murrish on the 24th August 1819 at Gwinear and Jacky died a short time before 18th May 1823 and was buried on the 18th at Lelant. I have never found out what happened to Jennifer and I guess that would be an interesting exercise to undertake at some time.

Jacky and Jennifer had two children, Ann being the youngest. The second child was John who was baptised at Camborne on the 19th August 1820.

Thinking about it, and thinking about the proximity of Gonew to Ninis Bridge, I did note when I walked past there on a few occasions that there is a Primitive Methodist Chapel at Ninnis Bridge and another chapel at Polpeor, (not sure which of the two was Primitive Methodist) so it is possible that this is where John and Ann were married.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - thankyou for this most enlightening information and I will make the alterations/updates to my database tonight.

Nice to have proof that I was right about the identity of John Quick - although I never had any doubts myself.

And once I looked at the Camborne records I realised that I had perhaps 'jumped the gun' a little with identifying Ann Glasson.

However that is all cleared up now.

Re Gonew - when working through some later St Ives baptisms earlier tonight I noticed something that will be of interest to you given your comments here.

There was at least one Quick baptism where the place of abode of the parents was recorded as - Gonew, Ninnes Bridge.

I would presume this to mean possibly that part of Gonew that was near Ninnes Bridge?

Thinking about it some more and I think some of the baptisms referred to either Gonew or Ninnes Bridge with the above being the exception.

That should narrow down the exact spot where they lived or at least get the location pretty close.

Will possibly have a couple more items for you to consider later tonight but must get a few hours sleep now.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Just as a matter of interest I do have a connection, other than Sophia, to the Warmington clan at Ninnes Bridge - lovely little place too methinks.

Anyway, James, according to me, was the second husband of Christiana nee White and that explains why the first five children are listed in the 1841 census as nephews and nieces and the sixth, Elizabeth is listed as a daughter. Even in 1861 Margaret is still listed as a niece of the head of the household, James.

This other connection comes from a son from Christiana's first marriage to William Warmington - their son Edward. Edward married Wilmot Ninnes who was the daughter of Thomas Ninnes and Wilmot Quick Glasson and as you have probably already worked out goes then to the beforementioned Joseph Glasson and Wilmot Quick.

I have a marriage date for Christanna and James in 1841 at Gulval which I took from the IGI and the OPC site.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - all correct except I had not gone as far as the marriage of Edward Warmington given my concentration on the Quick part of the problem. (I will look at that now.)

FYI - Christiana WHITE I think was baptised at Madron 27th June 1802 (born Lelant) d/o Richard WHITE and Christian NANKERVIS who married at Madron 9th February 1798.

CT

[snydly]

This is related to my latest inquiry also.