Where did the Red family come from?

[cornishmaid]

Just a "Quick" query.

I have a Thomas Red that married a Prudence Quick on 24 July 1785 in St Ives. (Prudence Quick was the daughter of John Quick and Christian Luke who married in Lelant on 23 Feb 1747.)
Thomas's parents were Thomas Red and Agnes Unknown. Thomas and Agnes had the following children baptised at St Ives:
Agnes bapt. 30 Jan 1736
Andrew bapt. 15 December 1739
Elizabeth bapt. 7 June 1742
Thomas bapt. 30 June 1745
William bapt. 3 December 1749

I am unable to find a marriage of a Thomas Red to an Agnes, and cannot seem to find where Thomas Red originated from. Does anyone know anything about the Red family or whom Agnes was

All help appreciated

[Cornish Terrier]

Hmmm - It may be a good idea for you to consider a trip to Truro and visit the CRO where you should be able to view an original Parish Register.

There is a very good reason for this and I hope it will answer your query and also supply us with a little more information.

I have just looked at my entries for Prudence Quick and also my copy of Phillimore for St Ives.

My entry reads:-

Thomas BENNETTS m. Prudence QUICK 24th July 1785 - ref. St Ives Parish Register

In pencil alongside the entry in Phillimore I have written the name Thomas Bennetts.

This entry is dated 8th March 1998 and recollection says that it was the result of a lookup at the CRO by Nancy Tonkin.

My notes will be in amongst the piles of books and paperwork I have laying around here so will be difficult to find.

Suggest you make that trip to Truro and look at the PR.

Another interesting point with this one is something you will find if you check the entry in IGI.

24 Jul 1785 St Ives Prudence QUICK married THOMAS

That is it!

There are children listed to Thomas and Prudence RED and I will investigate that further after I get home from work.

There was also a Thomas Bennetts who married Prudence Williams at St Ives in about 1788 who had a number of children including a Christian which may be interesting.

Will see what I can discover later on.

Ian

[cornishmaid]

Mm, strange. The Bennetts family along with Christian Safeguard are on my Rowe side.

The children I have baptised to Thomas & Agnes' son Thomas Red, and his wife Prudence Quick are:

Elisabeth bapt. 28 May 1786
Prudence bapt. 4 November 1787
Mary bapt. 25 October 1789, buried: 23 December 1790
Christian b. 13 November 1690, bapt. 21 December 1790
Thomas bapt. 26 May 1793, died: 28 January 1794

Elisabeth had a son out of wedlock called Andrew b.1812, d.1813.
Prudence married William Tanner 16 August 1838
Mary died at age 1.
Christian (AKA Catherine) married George Care 2 July 1812
Thomas again died aged 1.

So, as for Thomas' Snr's parents, I should maybe looking for the marriage of a Thomas Bennett to an Agnes

Any help gratefully received on this one

[Cornish Terrier]

I will check IGI again in a moment but first decided to check the 1841 Census for the name 'Red'.
It seems to be a legitimate name as the first page begins with names like Alfred then Ann and down to Catherine with all born and residing outside the 'mother Country' of Cornwall.

Next step (doing now) is to check those resident in Cornwall in 1841.

Results:-

Farterrao Red born about 1816 Cornwall living at Stithians
Maria Red born about 1776 living at Falmouth
Richd Red born about 1776 living at Falmouth

That is it.

In the 1851 Census I found no member of the 'Red' family born in Cornwall.

An IGI search on the surname 'Red' in Cornwall produced only 49 results.

A few at Egloshayle and Endellion.
A couple at Ludgvan.
Most at St Ives.

The earliest entry is one of those obscure ones that you see in IGI:-

Petherick Red born 'abt' 1630 of Egloshayle
married 20th November 1652

1st August 1655 we have the marriage of Edeth Red to Thomas Sander at Egloshayle

James Thomas junr married Elizageth Red at Ludgvan 24th June 1766 (confirmed with Phillimore)

8th September 1633 Katherine Redd bp. d/o Hugh Redd at East Newlyn

RED baptisms at St Ives:-

30 Jan 1737 Agnes d/o Thomas and Agnes
15 Dec 1739 Andrew s/o Thomas and Agnes
29 Jun 1742 Elisabeth d/o Thomas and Agnes
30 Jun 1745 Thos. s/o Thoms. and Agnes
03 Dec 1749 William s/o Thomas and Agnes
06 Mar 1756 John s/o Agnes Red

28 May 1786 Elizabeth d/o Thomas and Prudence
04 Nov 1787 Prudence d/o Thomas and Prudence
25 Oct 1789 Mary d/o Thomas and Prudence
21 Dec 1790 Christian d/o Thomas and Prudence
26 May 1793 Thomas s/o Thomas and Prudence (d. 28 Jan 1794)

That's all and there ain't no more.

Comparing the above with your information it is obvious that the IGI entry has been updated to reflect the Gregorian date. (Damned frustrating.)

I also can find no marriage to an Agnes whether it be Thomas Red or Thomas Bennetts.

There is, however, a marriage at St Ives in 1736 for Thomas Bennetts and Mary Leddra.

Maybe a longshot but it may perhaps be worth having a look at them to see if anything shows up.

A search for a birth/baptism for Thomas Red produced 5 results but all are for the same person.

Thomas Red born 'about' 1712 Stevenage, Hertford.

Each of these entries gives a Marriage date of 31st March 1734 which is about right for the first baptism at St Ives.

But one of these entries provides a brides name - Sarah Clarke.

This is a most peculiar and difficult problem so I am going to 'flick pass' it back to you for now.

And let us see what our intrepid investigators can come up with that may help.

[cornishmaid]

But you were my intrepid investigator!! ;D

Now, this may be something or it may be nothing.... Looking for Thomas's marrying Agnes's at around 1734 ish, I found the following on Phillimores for Madron:

Thomas Cawgah, of St Ives, & Agnes Bassett, of Falmouth, by licence on 20 August 1733.

Checking the IGI I can find no Cawgah's except for this Thomas; I also can't find any Cawgah's in St Ives

If Thomas "Cawgah" was of St Ives it made sense that they may live there. But also, if Thomas was from St Ives and Agnes was from Falmouth, why would they get married in Madron??

More questions than answers at this stage I'm afraid

[cornishmaid]

Cawgah could be Cogar There were definitely Cogars in St Ives. Better try and follow up on that later.

Update: There are children baptised to Thomas & Agnis Cogar at the right time. Ah well, back to the drawing board

[Cornish Terrier]

if Thomas was from St Ives and Agnes was from Falmouth, why would they get married in Madron??

Why did James Quick and Mary Humphries (both of St Ives) get married in Falmouth. ;D

At this point I think it worth pursuing the 'Cawgah' information and see what may turn up.

Where were the children baptised and what were there names??

Maybe there is a clue there somewhere.

Will consider this a little more tomorrow I think.

Ian

[Cornish Terrier]

Thought it time to resurrect this one, particularly after having found some of my old notes.

In earlier notes I indicated that I had checked IGI for this name and posted my results.

Well I have done another check of IGI just to check.

From c.1630 through to 1809 there are only 31 birth/baptism events recorded for this name in Cornwall.

From 1652 through to 1812 there are 17 marriage events.

As usual with IGI there are multiple entries for some events so the total number of events is, of course, much lower than the figures above.

Since finding my old notes I can clarify a point I made earlier regarding the marriage of Thomas RED to Prudence QUICK in 1785.

The information I received all that time ago was a mixture of BDMs primarily for QUICK and CURNOW from the St Ives Parish Registers with the marriages including witness names where present.

In this information the marriage in question reads:-

Thomas BENNETTS m. Prudence QUICK 24th July 1785
Witnesses:- John Quick, John Wallis

Exactly the same date but a different surname for Thomas.

My recollection says that I had this entry checked and that it did actually read BENNETTS but I am not 'absolutely certain' of that.

So if someone is able to check the original PR it might help solve this problem.

And checking Phillimore - the nearest entry for BENNETTS to the marriage of Thomas and Prudence is 15 entries away so there appears no chance of the transcriber having inadvertantly transcribed part of the line above or below.

The question remains - Where did the RED family come from and, equally as important, Where did the RED family go.

Anyone at all able to shed any light on this PLEASE STEP FORWARD and do so. ;D

[cornishmaid]

I don't know . Helpful eh?

I have been right through Phillimores trying to find marriages of "Red" persons, so am posting below in case there are any clues to be gleaned.

Launceston - Richard Rede & Agnis Bante 16 October 1564
St Minver - William Rede & Johan Billing 6 February 1570
Landrake - Jno. Leey & Johan Rede 4 November 1597
Egloshayle - Petherick Red & Elizabeth Kelloe 20 November 1652
Endellion - William Inch & Mary Redd 6 November 1746
Ludgvan - James Thomas Jnr., & Elizabeth Red 24 June 1766

Then of course there is the marriage that is in dispute:
St Ives - Thomas Red, Mariner, & Prudence Quick 24 July 1785

Then the marriage of Thomas & Prudence Red's daughter:
St Ives - George Care, W., & Catherine Red 2 July 1812

Bit of a mad rush now, but will try to find more later

[Cornish Terrier]

They seek him here, they seek him there - the seek that b****y Red man everywhere! ;D

About the only thing in any way positive out of that is the likelihood that Elizabeth and Thomas were siblings - but even that .......

Why such long gaps between appearances?

There must be an answer somewhere - if we could only find it!