William Quick of Gwennap

[Cornish Terrier]

Quite right my friend - I had forgotten all about Frances BRAY in the hours I spent trying to work through all the information.

But there is still another problem I forgot to mention.

Francis QUICK buried 10th February 1832 was age 80 which puts his birth around 1851.

Now the two Francis QUICKs in contention to be husband of Frances WILLIAMS were born in 1862 and 1865 respectively.

But this fellow was born 11 years earlier than our man of 1862 who was the elder of our contenders.

And I don't have a Frances born any closer than 1837 at St Ives!

Will work some more and see what I can find.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Frances BRAY - the problems are not over just yet.

There are two possible baptisms for Frances Bray

26th January 1752 Gwennap d/o William and Mary

9th August 1761 Gwennap d/o William and Frances

In the first instance we do not have a burial for a Frances QUICK to match this - UNLESS Francis of 1832 is actually Frances.

If that were the case (and I have re-checked the OPC) then we would have a match but ....

In the second case - d/o William and Frances we have another problem.

Firstly the baptism year is two years late to be a 'perfect' match for the 1829 burial of Frances.

Secondly - this seems to be a 'one-off' baptism for a child of William and Frances.

Thirdly - No marriage for William BRAY to Frances (anybody) can be found on IGI.

I have searched Gwennap, Kea and Kenwyn to no avail.

A suspicion here is that the mother is not actually Frances at all but rather one of those PR mistakes we are all so fond of.

Will have to think more on this one but meanwhile will take a bit of a look and see what Frances WILLIAMS might fit our scenario.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Frances WILLIAMS - also still a problem.

With last child baptised in 1813 and the previous in 1810 we do not have a lot of room to move.

Working on a maximum age of 48 for Frances to have children we should be thinking about 1765 as being about the earliest for her birth.

Allowing a little time for a late baptism we might look at 1764 or, at a pinch, maybe 1763.

There are four candidates available in IGI - bearing in mind that we do not have the records for Kea or Kenwyn.

25 October 1767 St Ives d/o John and Frances - doubtful because of St Ives and also possibly because father is John.

13 April 1766 Helston d/o Thomas and Frances - no Thomas in the family and no evidence of any of this family being involved at Helston.

28 December 1765 St Columb Minor d/o William and Dorothy - no William or Dorothy and St Columb is a little far away given what we know of the family so far.

01 Oct 1763 Truro d/o Francis and Mary - the favourite at this stage because of the names of her parents and also because Kea and Kenwyn both border with Truro. Only problem is that 1763 might be a little early.

Best I can do until we get hold of those other PRs I think.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Working on some of the burials for a while now so need to see what you think.

Ann QUICK bur. 26th July 1767 Gwennap

I believe this to have been Ann BRAY and second wife of James QUICK.

She was bp. at Gwennap 16th November1694 d/o Anthony BRAY and Ann (nee NOWEL).

Five James QUICKs

1. 11th August 1746
2. 14th April 1761
3. 12th December 1775
4. 3rd October 1776
5. 8th September 1787

I would think the first (1746) is most likely to be the husband of Margaret and Ann - i.e. son of Gabriel and Mary.

He would have been probably around 70 by this time and 'could' be the one buried in 1761 but I doubt it.

One of the others will be his son but ........

Margaret bur. 21st August 1762

I think this has to be Margaret HALSE w/o Thomas and the following might help.

Francis (son of) Thomas QUICK was bp. 22nd June 1762

Frances (daughter of) Thomas QUICK was bur. 30th September 1763

I think these two are one and the same unless Thomas had another child born elsewhere.

If this is the case then it eliminates on candidate for the husband of Frances WILLIAMS!

Ambrose bur. 14th November 1774 - seems this must be the son of James and Ann (Bray) with seemingly no other options available.

Gabriel bur. 11th November 1780 - He could be one of a few.

He could be one of these:-

bp. St Ives 1699 s/o William and Elizabeth
bp. Gwennap 1709 s/o James and Margaret
bp. St Ives 1732 s/o Paul and Christian
bp. St Hilary 1733 s/o Henry and Elizabeth

Remember also that there was Gabriel QUICK who married Mary DINGLE at Kenwyn in 1731 who is possibly on of the first two above.

It may be expected that the fourth of the above was the man buried at Ludgvan in 1799 age 69.
But that could also be the son of Paul and Christian.

Thomas bur. 16th December 1803 - this is possibly the son of James and Ann (bp. 1721) but there is also his son to be taken into account.

I also have five Mary QUICKs to consider but .....

And, of course, Francis and Frances.

But then there are the following interesting burials:-

16th March 1743 - Mary d/o William

Cannot find a baptism that works with this one - anywhere.

28th April 1747 - Elizabeth d/oThomas and Ann - likewise

17th April 1749 - Jane d/o James and Elizabeth -

16th May 1765 - Richard QUICK

Out of all of that lot I am fairly comfortable with James (1746), Margaret (1762), Ann (1767) and Ambrose (1774)

And I think the son (or daughter?) of Thomas and Margaret might hold part of the key to the Francis/Frances situation.

The others ........

[Cornish Terrier]

Further to my last.

Eliminate James bur. 3rd October 1776 - forgot I already had him sorted.

James age 7 bur. 1787 - this is probably the brother of the above and, therefore, son of William and Mary
He was baptised 2nd February 1782 so was probably born in 1781 and possibly even a little earlier.

Mary bur. 3rd January 1811 - the next burial for a Mary earlier than this is in 1785 so this cannot be the wife of William who had son Ambrose baptised in 1787.

The only other entry for a Mary QUICK I can find is the above in 1811 so would suggest this was the wife of William (nee Mary RICHARDS).

That is about all I can work out for now.

But I can now give you some information that you may not yet have attempted to find.

The burials of all children of Gabriel and Mary"-

James - as per above
Francis we also know about
Judith JOHN - buried 19th April 1747 at St Hilary
Joseph JOHN - buried 15th April 1730 at St Hilary
Beaton - I think you already have at Gwennap in 1759
Jane NUTON - buried 29th November 1754 at Gwennap

CT

[Deleted]

CT

I agree with most of your burials, but would like to make the following comments.

Francis (son of) Thomas QUICK was bp. 22nd June 1762

Frances (daughter of) Thomas QUICK was bur. 30th September 1763

I think these two are one and the same unless Thomas had another child born elsewhere.

If this is the case then it eliminates on candidate for the husband of Frances WILLIAMS!

I am not happy with this conclusion. It would not be unusual to not have a baptism for Frances (female) given that there does not appear to be one for her brother Gabriel. Also there are some significant gaps in the baptisms that we do have. If you suggest that this Frances is Francis, a male, then it generates a problem further down the track of who is the second burial for Francis. At this stage my preference is to leave them both as children of Thomas.

Gabriel bur. 11th November 1780 - He could be one of a few.

I have him as the son of James and Margaret, bap 1710, husband of Mary Dingle.

Lannanta

[Deleted]

CT

With respect to the couple Francis and Frances, and which one of the two cousins was the husband. I am guessing that in the absence of any documents that would provide some clarity, the only other possible option would be a headstone?

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

If, by the second burial for Francis, you mean the burial of 10th February 1832 at Gwennap then we already have a problem!

Remember that this Francis age was recorded as 80 which places hiw birth at about 1751.

The two Francis QUICKs we have been discussing as possible husbands for Frances WILLIAMS were baptised in 1862 and 1865 respectively.

That is 11 and 14 years AFTER this other fellow would have been born!

That being the case the scenario is certainly changed and we may be looking for a male Francis born earlier rather than a female Frances.

Remember also that Margaret, wife of Thomas, died just two months after the baptism of Franc*s in 1862 and that was largely behind my reasoning on the possibility of the child of Thomas buried in 1863 actually being the child baptised in 1862.

If we can get hold of Kenwyn and Kea baptisms/burials it may go a long way towards solving this problem.

And if we are looking for a Francis born about 1751 then we need to consider who the parents might be.

And the most likely candidate for that at the moment is still Thomas and Margaret. (Unless Gabriel and Mary (Dingle) had children).

So let's look at Thomas and Margaret again.

The most prominent gap between children is between first child Ann in 1747 and James in 1755.

We now know that Gabriel must fit in there and, given his age at death is accurate, he would be born about 1750 or 51.

So Francis who was age 80 in 1832 would fit fairly comfortably as well.

And this would enhance the possibility that an error was made with either the baptism or the burial of the child 1762/3.

Leave you to think on that one for a while.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

If, by the second burial for Francis, you mean the burial of 10th February 1832 at Gwennap then we already have a problem!
Remember that this Francis age was recorded as 80 which places his birth at about 1751.

Yes I do. I agree with your comments that the Francis in question may well have been born earlier than 1762. But I am still not prepared to concede that there is an error with Frances/Francis buried in 1763 - however I do accept that it is a possibility.

It could be that the age of 80 years could have been a best guess from distant relatives - especially if this is the bachelor Francis - and especially as I do not know who was the informant at the death.

As you say we need some corroborative evidence.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Now I've gone and done it - writing 1862 and 1865 when I really meant 1762 and 1765! ;D

Hmm - a distant relative might have been the 'informant' and got it wrong - maybe!

But I am not sure that anyone would get it wrong by 12 or 15 years!!!!!

Might see if I can get some contact with the OPC for Kenwyn and, perhaps, Kea and see if they can find anything for us.

CT