John Keegan Newton of Penzance

[Isambard]

A John Keegan Newton was born in Penzance 1st qtr 1848 (Vol 9 pg 223). A John Keegan lived in Penzance with his grandparents Isaac Newton and Elizabeth (Gendall) Newton at the time of the 1851 census. A John Keggan Newton died in Penzance 4th qtr. 1852 (Vol 5c Page 214).

Were John Keegan N and John Keggan N the same person? Who were his (their) parents?

Any help appreciated!

[Cornish Terrier]

I would suggest the possibility that the two are the same person however I have checked and find that I do not have enough information available to work from and, so far, am not exactly sure where to go next.

I have checked all the PR transcripts I have for Penzance and Madron but need to check a few other Parishes given that Penzance, as given in the St Catherine's House Index, covers many Parishes in the West of Cornwall - i.e. it is, in this usage, a Registration District.

Will try to do more later but have a few things to do in the meantime.

Ian

[cornishmaid]

I too would say we are talking about the same person here. Nothing to back that up at the moment except that the name Keegan seemed to be quite rare in Cornwall at that time, and that I can find no-one else with even a similar name.

It looks as though we should be focussing on Penzance the town, as in the 1851 census John K Newton's place of birth is listed as Penzance. I would say this would be the place name rather than the district. It may be worth contacting the OPC for Penzance to see if she can help at all.

I only found one family of Keegans in 1841, and they are also in Penzance, in Penwith Street:
John Keegan 30 Sawyer Not born in county,
Angeline Keegan 30 Born in county
Mary Ann Coulsen 20 Born in county
Eliza Williams 25 Born in county

And in Pigot’s Directory of Cornwall 1844 under "Shopkeepers & Dealers in Groceries & Sundries" is:
John Keegan, Adelaide Street

In 1841, also in Adelaide Street, we find the Newton family.

As the two names are not commonplace in Cornwall at that time, and you have a child called John Keegan Newton, it would seem to be quite a large coincidence.

I haven't managed to find any records yet of John Keegan's baptism, nor any link yet between the Keegan and Newton families, but will keep trying. May not be around for the next week, so will check on this again as soon as I can for progress.

If push comes to shove the birth and death certificates would be the obvious answer. But until push does come to shove, will keep looking

[crida]

I have been having a look at this and, like the others, think that you are looking at the same person.

So far as his parentage is concerned, the following may be helpful.

In 1841 Isaac and Elizabeth Newton have the following children with them

Alexander Newton 20
Elizth Newton 15
Robert Newton 14
Fanny Newton 13
Julia Newton 10
Isaac Newton 4

By 1851 Elizabeth has become Elizabeth Roberts and has 2 children with her. She is with Isaac and Elizabeth.

Fanny, Isaac and Julia are still with their parents in 1851.

John Keegan Newton could be the son of either Alexander or Robert or possibly, the illegitimate son of Fanny or Julia. Also, we have to consider that Isaac and Elizabeth may have older children who are not with them on the census in 1841.

In 1851 Alexander seems to be with wife Mary Ann in Southwark. They have 2 children aged 5 and 3 born in Plymouth and Southwark respectively. So Alexander seems unlikely to be the father of John.

Robert is also in Southwark in 1851 just a few doors away from Alexander. He is married to Josephine born in Suffolk. No children are shown. In 1861 (in a rather confusing entry!) this couple is in Penzance with a 9 year old daughter born in Southwark. In the next household are a 7 year old William Fuller b Southwark and a 54 year old Elizabeth Fuller shown as step mother born in Suffolk. I think these are relatives of Josephine as there is this marriage

Marriages Dec 1850
Barnaschina Charles Edward Wt London 2 292
Connalty Charles W London 2 292
Connatty Charles W London 2 292
Fuller Josephine W London 2 292
Griffith Ann Agnes London W 2 292
HEWITT Maria W London 2 292
McCreery Joseph William W London 2 292
Newton Robert W London 2 292
Riddesdale Sarah Belinda W London 2 292

In view of this I think it is unlikely that John is a son of Robert and Josephine.

So, that leaves the 2 daughters of Isaac and Elizabeth or any older children that we have not yet found as the parents of John.

Will have a further look later.

Crida

[londoner]

I am inclined to the same feeling - I cannot find Fanny in 1861 but there is a death registered 3rd Q 1866 Redruth 5c 161, age at death 40 which could be her.
Julia was still unmarried in 1861 - living as Boarder at 21 Adelaide St with Sarah Ann Corin

Either could have been John Keegan Newton's mother only his birth cert will tell for sure.

[londoner]

a little more about John Keegan:

1861 at
Angelina Keegan 49 Plymouth, Devon, England
John Keegan 51 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Mary E Pawley 22 Penzance, Cornwall, England Adopted Daughter
Richard T Pawley 24 Penzance, Cornwall, England Adopted Son

1851 at Southwark
as above except that Mary & Richard are with their widower father George Pawley (1808 Penzance) and Angelina's place of birth is given as Penryn, Cornwall.

I think thet George probably m Mary Thomas 1834 Madron

This gets us no closer to the father of John K Newton although there was an Edward Pawley at the same address as Julia in 1861.....

[crida]

Pity we cannot find a baptism for him as that could clear up the query.

Crida

[Isambard]

crida said:

I have been having a look at this and, like the others, think that you are looking at the same person.

So far as his parentage is concerned, the following may be helpful.

In 1841 Isaac and Elizabeth Newton have the following children with them

Alexander Newton 20
Elizth Newton 15
Robert Newton 14
Fanny Newton 13
Julia Newton 10
Isaac Newton 4

By 1851 Elizabeth has become Elizabeth Roberts and has 2 children with her. She is with Isaac and Elizabeth.

Fanny, Isaac and Julia are still with their parents in 1851.

John Keegan Newton could be the son of either Alexander or Robert or possibly, the illegitimate son of Fanny or Julia. Also, we have to consider that Isaac and Elizabeth may have older children who are not with them on the census in 1841.

In 1851 Alexander seems to be with wife Mary Ann in Southwark. They have 2 children aged 5 and 3 born in Plymouth and Southwark respectively. So Alexander seems unlikely to be the father of John.

Robert is also in Southwark in 1851 just a few doors away from Alexander. He is married to Josephine born in Suffolk. No children are shown. In 1861 (in a rather confusing entry!) this couple is in Penzance with a 9 year old daughter born in Southwark. In the next household are a 7 year old William Fuller b Southwark and a 54 year old Elizabeth Fuller shown as step mother born in Suffolk. I think these are relatives of Josephine as there is this marriage

Marriages Dec 1850
Barnaschina Charles Edward Wt London 2 292
Connalty Charles W London 2 292
Connatty Charles W London 2 292
Fuller Josephine W London 2 292
Griffith Ann Agnes London W 2 292
HEWITT Maria W London 2 292
McCreery Joseph William W London 2 292
Newton Robert W London 2 292
Riddesdale Sarah Belinda W London 2 292

In view of this I think it is unlikely that John is a son of Robert and Josephine.

So, that leaves the 2 daughters of Isaac and Elizabeth or any older children that we have not yet found as the parents of John.

Will have a further look later.

Crida

Here is some additional info that may be helpful:

Isaac Newton b. 1797 married Elizabeth Gendall 2 May 1819 in Madron.

Alexander Gendall Newton, their 1st son, b. 1821, married Marian Ponisi abt June 1845 in Penzance. They had 8 children - all but one, Mary Ann, born in Southwark.

Robert Newton, their 2nd son, married Josephine Fuller 15 December 1850 in Holborn, London. They had three children -Mary Elizabeth b. 1852 Southwark, William Fuller (my ggrandfather) b.1854 Southwark and Robert b. 1862 Madron.
Josephine's mother was Mary Fuller b. 1804(?) Suffolk (ref 1871 and 1881 censuses). Perhaps the Elzabeth Fuller in 1861 census?

Isaac Newton, their 3rd son, b. 1837, of course was too young to be John Keegan Newton's father. He married Ann Drewry in November 1859 in Madron.

Given only abt two years between Isaac and Elizabeth's marriage and Alexander Gendall's birth it is unlikely that there was an older and as yet undiscovered son, but not out of the question. This leaves only the two daughters Fanny and Julia, unless daughter Elizabeth had a child before marrying Samuel Roberts in Madron 1 Dec 1844, when she was about 26.

The search continues!

PS:
Further to above, I've had a close look at the image for the Robert Newton household in the 1861 census, it is Mary Fuller listed as "sm" (stepmother), as compared with "mother" in 1881.
I've also found in the 1871 census a Wm. Newton, age 16, b. London, farm servant to James Trembath in Gulval. The age and birthplace fit William Fuller Newton.

[Isambard]

Mar 21, 2008 5:43:12 GMT -5 londoner said:

I am inclined to the same feeling - I cannot find Fanny in 1861 but there is a death registered 3rd Q 1866 Redruth 5c 161, age at death 40 which could be her.
Julia was still unmarried in 1861 - living as Boarder at 21 Adelaide St with Sarah Ann Corin

Either could have been John Keegan Newton's mother only his birth cert will tell for sure.

A copy of John Keegan Newton's birth certificate arrived from the GRO this AM (what great service -delivered in Canada only two weeks from ordering!).

John Keegan Newton was born 11 December 1847 in Adelaide Street, Penzance. His mother was Fanny Newton, no father entered. Fanny would have been about 19 at the time.

I assume that the John Keggan Newton who died in Penzance in 4th qtr 1852 is the same child and that a death certificate would probably not enlighten any further as to who his father was. I wonder if he would have been baptized?

[Cornish Terrier]

Tom - I have just had another look through this and made some updates to my database.

I also did another search of all records at my disposal and came up with nother further to help.

Even checked baptisms at the Penzance Union Workhouse.

One thing I will is that, given the amount of circumstantial evidence floating about here, it is a fair bet that the father was John Keegan.

Another avenue you might try for further information would be 'Bastardy Bonds' - you never know, you might get lucky.

Time for me to move on to another query.

Ian

[Isambard]

May 13, 2008 16:13:29 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

Tom - I have just had another look through this and made some updates to my database.

I also did another search of all records at my disposal and came up with nother further to help.

Even checked baptisms at the Penzance Union Workhouse.

One thing I will is that, given the amount of circumstantial evidence floating about here, it is a fair bet that the father was John Keegan.

Another avenue you might try for further information would be 'Bastardy Bonds' - you never know, you might get lucky.

Time for me to move on to another query.

Ian

From Genuki Cornwall: "Trying to find details of bastardy cases after 1839 is difficult. Bastardy bonds and other parish bastardy documents ceased to be used after 1834 when the Poor Law Unions were created. From 1834 to 1839 the Workhouse administrators initiated bastardy proceedings through the Petty and Quarter Sessions Courts, and from 1839 all bastardy cases were heard at Petty Sessions, and were initiated by the mother who had to produce corroborative evidence to convict the putative father."

John Keegan Newton was born 11 Dec 1847, therefore late for a bonds search. John Keegan as discussed above was abt 37 and married to Angeline at the time of John Keegan Newton's birth to Fanny Newton in 1847.

Interesting that John and Angelina adopted two children.