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Post by myghaelangof on Jul 30, 2007 14:20:45 GMT -5
Hi Anne,
Too many James' & Alice's if you ask me. Have just emailed you direct as I believe that Henry Phillips, died Gulval circa 1692-4 is linked to this family by virtue of the same christian names recurring: James , Matthew, Samuel , though the date of death suggests he might be grandad to our James married 1718 to Alice Oats. Mike
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 30, 2007 16:04:08 GMT -5
G'day Mike - Just sent you a Welcoming PM. I believe you are correct about Henry Phillips and it looks like you echo my thoughts of many years past. Noting your message I will make a couple of comments. If you have anything to offer that might correct my findings I will be most happy but this is what I have deduced so far over the years:- By my reckoning the James Phillips who married Alice Oats at Zennor in 1718 was son of Matthew Phillips who was married at Zennor in 1674 to [___] Stevens. This Matthew was, in turn, son of Matthew Phillips and Judith (nee SWEETE). He (Matthew), in turn, was son of James Phillips who married ALICE [____} at Zennor in 1625. This fellows predecessor was, I believe, the Matthew Phillips whose Will was made and proved in 1628 at Zennor. HENRY - by my reckoning you are largely correct. I believe Henry to have been the Grandson of the Matthew who left the 1628 Will. He would be the son of Thomas Phillips. Henry married sometime before 1655 to Frances (unknown) and appears to have had about 10 children. One of those children was Matthew baptised at St Keverne in 1660 whose daughter Elizabeth married into the Davies family. * I have posted a 'trailer' on the Board suggesting I would deal with this family so I might have to do it pretty soon. Henry wrote his Will in 1692 as 'Henry Phillips of Gulval' His burial is recorded in the Gulval PR's" 6th January 1694 'Henry Phillips, in Zennor' Hope that helps and I will be providing more as I can - including the Davies line. Response most welcome. (Including corrections, if any) ;D
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Post by myghaelangof on Jul 31, 2007 16:33:30 GMT -5
Hi Cornish terrier and Anne I have been musing over the Phillips messages and can clarify a few points that have been raised. I have a copy of the James Phillips will and inventory dated 1746. They are misfiled at the Cornwall records office under James Phillips 1766. The inventory of James. tinner deceased, is dated 7th June 1746. The will states that Matthew and Elizabeth shall be paid out at age 25, and Ann one year after his death (ie 1747, which is 25 years after the bapt of Ann in 1722). To me, this seems fairly conclusive that Ann was from a first marriage. I am currently working through the 1744 lease of Nanquidno by James Phillips to see if this yields any clues to his ancestry. The lease was made on the lives of James, Matthew and Alice his sons and daughters. I have a further document dated 1791 that states all 3 lives have now expired (Matthew buried St Just 13 10 1791)and it is being renewed by another James Phillips. This James is buried in St Just 27 Dec 1827 age 64 years, of Nanquidno, suggesting a birth year around 1763. I personally examined the burial registers not long ago, and the entry for 21 May 1766 clearly states James son of Matthew Phillips, so no dodgy IGI entries there! (makes a change). However I have a theory - What about James, son of James & Alice (Grenfell) who was baptised 25 7 1758. I have no further record on him, and maybe James's brother Matthew went to the church to report/record the death, or the curate got the brothers mixed up? Either way, James Tonkin's will does name James son of Matthew Phillips. So whilst not going back in time from 1718 some of the above may help to clarify. Should I be posting this under St Just?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 1, 2007 11:40:52 GMT -5
Mike - thankyou for this information. I am very tired at the moment and incapable of doing much with this information right now. However I have printed this last note and will try to address it properly tomorrow. (Glad to have someone confirm my thoughts on IGI ;D) I will be looking forward to your findings from the documents you mention and will try to look properly at the rest of the data tomorrow. ALSO - not sure right now that I have any details of that JAMES TONKIN WILL so would surely appreciate that. RE - placement of postings. I think, for the moment, that this is the right place given we 'seem' to be dealing with branches of the Zennor Family. We can always separate things a little later if necessary. After a good long sleep I hope to be able to offer more on this and I look forward to anything further you may offer. And now you have forced ;D me into doing more on the DAVIES-GILBERT part of things.
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Post by myghaelangof on Aug 1, 2007 17:29:12 GMT -5
The following is extracted from the website of Dee's St erth pages: freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~sterth/index.htmJames Tonkin, St Just in Penwith yeoman written - 07-Apr 1790 proved - 12-May 1790 pages - 31/32 brother - Richard sister - Jane Tonkin brother-in-law - William Casley's children Elizabeth Phillips, daughter of late wife Alice Phillips kinsman - Richard Oak Elius Sonny Oak James Phillips, son of Matthew Phillips witnesses - Dl Spurr, Peter Williams I'm pretty sure I looked at the will several years ago and concurred with the above beneficiaries, but cant find my notes currently. Mike
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 3, 2007 10:45:08 GMT -5
Let me see if I can reconstruct this family - and then I would welcome thoughts and opinions. 16th January 1763 William CASLEY m. Thomasin TONKIN at St Just I am using this as a starting point from the previously mentioned Will of James TONKIN. 27th April 1732 Thomas TONKIN m. Loveday OATES at St Just All following is from IGI baptisms at St Just:- 6th November 1733 Thomas s/o Thomas TONKIN 3rd May 1735 Thomasin d/o Thomas & Loveday TONKIN 1st November 1737 John s/o Thomas TONKIN 8th January 1738 Jane d/o Thomas (d. 25th January 1738) 24th March 1739 James s/o Thomas TONKIN26th May 1740 Pascoe s/o Thomas TONKEN (d. 20th January 1741) 18th April 1741 William s/o Thomas TONKEN 29th October 1743 Jane d/o Thomas & Loveday Tonkin 15th April 1745 Joan d/o Thomas TONKIN 1st January 1747 Richard s/o Thomas & Loveday TONKIN It appears that the names in James Tonkin's Will are covered here. There was more than one Thomas Tonkin fathering children through this period of time but the consistency here is with the naming of mother Loveday in enough events to 'form a match'. My only problem with this is that, if James (Will of 1790) is the fella baptised in 1739 then his mother is not named - and that makes life a little awkward. Have not worked out the 'OAK' connection yet but will await further comment on the above before I go much further. Time to 'check my casserole' and then look at some other threads that might require attention.
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Post by myghaelangof on Aug 19, 2007 15:05:54 GMT -5
Hi all, Been a bitted wrapped in other things for a few days... work keeps getting in the way! Anyway have made inroads with this Indenture dated 1744 whereby James Phillips tinner of St Just leased land at Nanquidno in 1744 apparently on the 3 lives of his sons and daughter James the younger, Matthew and Alice. The consideration was £140-10-00 to be paid 'half now, and half within 9 months' The tenement formerly known as Catherine Warren's tenement late in the possession of John Oats, and "one House and Garden in Nanquidno formerly in possession of one Thomas Leathan but now of Charles Thomas" were involved.
In November 1791 the lease was renegotiated in the names of James and John Phillips the sons of Matthew Phillips deceased (buried Oct 1791). Therefore I would presume that James and Alice predeceased Matthew.
I have not come across John before, and wonder when/where he was baptised? We still have this dodgy entry for a James Phillips burial in 1767 son of Matthew, but evidence such as this lease shows James well and truly alive after 1767!
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Post by Zenobia on Aug 22, 2007 14:26:59 GMT -5
Hello - good to see you back. Ian appears to have gone walkabout, so if he is not back in another day or so I will see if I can locate him. I am not versed enough in these later branches of the Phillips family to be of much use to you myself...
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 23, 2007 12:17:43 GMT -5
I am back after a week of being forced offline due to 'mechanical failure' and am trying to get my head around this last note. Looked at it for a long time and then realised the 'James and Alice' you refer to were the siblings of Matthew as named in 1744. Will have to take some time to look at all of this properly as I am getting very confused at the moment. Will check the rest of the messages I have missed over the last week, cook some tucker, watch a movie and then get to bed before starting again.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 24, 2007 11:38:59 GMT -5
I am tending to agree with your earlier note regarding the burial of James s/o Matthew Phillips. As you say, all evidence suggests that this James was alive and well quite some time after the recorded burial. It is not an easy problem but I am sure we can sort it out - given time and information. Will sit on this one for a few days and think about it given its complexity. And I have to be back at work again tomorrow afternoon. I do, however, still think this family goes back to the Zennor Phillips family so will pursue it as I can.
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