Martin Richards families Zennor 1770 to 1810

[rogerC41]

Having written but not posted a post I came across a very extended thread "John Richards there are too many of them" from maybe 8 years ago.
Since Bridget Barnicote gets a mention It may well contain the answer to my question below, but if it does it is buried deep.
So let me post my post, somebody whose familiar with the John Richards tatmot post may be able to point me at the relevant section

Seventy odd years ago I heard my grandma say of a fecund aunt "who does she think she is, Bridget Barnicote?".
I am not sure I heard Bridget's name mentioned in the next sixty years but I have stumbled across it several times in the last ten years.
Coming to the point OPC tells me Martin Richards (b.1735) married Bridget Barnicote(b.1751) at Zennor in 1772.
If one searches for the children of Martin Richards, Zennor from 1772 to 1805 on OPC one finds 14 of them.
Hannah (1773), Martin (1775), James (1777), John (1779), Martin (1782), Thomas (1788), Jane (1790), Margaret (1792), Anne (1793), Martin (1794), Samuel (1795), Anne (1796), Solomon (1799), and Samuel (1702) .
This seems a bit much for one mum, or indeed one dad.
OPC ascribes a mother ( Bridget Barnicote) to only one of these children, John(1779) . I gather it was a quaint custom of Zennor parish not to put the mother's name on the christening record.
Given there are three duplicate names Samuel, Anne and Martin, and I am unable to find any deaths between the paired births the argument for two Martin Richards families in Zennor ~1780 is strong.
Has anybody managed to split the above children into two families ?

I am trying to confirm Bridget Bardicote as the mother of Solomon which Grandma assured me Great-grand father told her.

roger

[Cornish Terrier]

This seems a bit much for one mum, or indeed one dad.

Roger - in my database I have multiple families from the 17th and 18th Centuries with more than 20 children and if memory serves I am fairly sure at least one family counted 27 children! I know, because I just looked, that I have one William Trewhela of Kenwyn who fathered 19 children by three wives but I reckon I have at least one family with more than 20 children to the same mother.

Now, to try and help solve your problem.

It was most unhelpful that the Vicar(s) at Zennor, for a very long period, failed to record the name of the mother when recording baptisms. The same can be said for Madron but there were other Parishes as well.

Bridget Barnicoat (I have standardised the name to make searching easier) was baptised at Penzance 12th August 1749 illegitimate daughter of another Bridget whom I have not properly identified as yet. (at least not in my database)

From some work I did on the Richards families about four years ago I concluded that Martin and Bridget Richards had seven children - Hannah 1773, Martin 1775, James 1777-1840, John 1779-1855, Martin 1782-1845, Thomas 1788 and Margaret 1792.

I believe Solomon was the eighth of nine children of Martin Richards and Jane Phillips who married at Madron 4th October 1787. Their first child (William 1788) was baptised at Madron but all subsequent children were among those baptised at Zennor. I am reasonably confident this particular Martin was baptised at Madron 16th May 1758 son of William Richards (and wife Ann Rodda) of Morva.

The husband of Bridget was baptised at Madron 10th Augus 1739 son of John Richards and his wife Hannah Michell.

I do not know what your Grandma's reference to Bridget Barnicote might have been alluding to but I am quite confident that my conclusions on the two Martin Richards families are correct. And to support the conclusion I can offer the following:-

Solomon Richards was baptised at Zennor 7th July 1799 and whilst it was not unusual to find that baptisms were delayed by a year or two (and quite often more) I suspect that Solomon himself was baptised probably within weeks of being born. He was buried at Towednack 17th August 1857 at which time his age was recorded as 58 thus suggesting he was indeed born in 1799. It is also worth noting that in the 1851 Census he was recorded as being age 52 so, again, reflective of a birth in 1799 or, perhaps, 1798.

And now for the most important point - I mentioned above that Bridget Barnicoat was bpatised 12th August 1749 which would mean that she would have been at least age 50 when Solomon was born. I work on the bases that it was highly unlikely a woman back then would have been having children past age 48 and that 'rule of thumb' has proved consistently to be the case in the many years I have been tracing Cornish families. I think I have come across just ONE instance where there appears to be no alternative but to accept that a woman must have been age 50 based on all the available evidence.

Hope that is of some help.

CT

[zibetha]

Well, when I was misbehaving or uppity, I earned some nicknames and admonishments. Zibetha Jane from my father and who do you think you are, the Queen of England? from my mother. My 3rd great-grandmother, Amelia Williams Sampson had 16 children and her husband, Josiah, 3 with his first wife. Roger, I have DNA matches with you and some Richards descendants who I appointed to Bridget. I will need to take another look at it. I think you and I go back to Trewhellas and Blewetts and perhaps the Harvey line at Gulval, but I have been wrong before.

Cheers
Zib

[rogerC41]

Hi CT.
Do you never sleep? If my computer has it correct your response went up at about 02:00 this morning.
And yes your response is some help, more than some LOTS.
After I have had my second coffee I will re-arrange your data in my head and then on paper.
Sad though it is it looks like I am going to loose Bridget Barnicoat as a direct line ancestor.

roger

[zibetha]

Hi Roger, Bridget might have been a family friend or a neighbor. I learned a lot about my family when we were building a house and my mother had my grandmother take me "up north" in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan for a break. I was 12 years old, and hot running water was a good thing! I have since come to know that friendly people were relatives. My grandfather told me some family stories.

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Do you never sleep?

Yes, I do manage a little sleep occasionally! But really, when I first started work back in 1972 I was working in a shiftwork environment and came to look the night shifts and got used to it and I have never really been a 'morning' person.
I can remember living just a couple of blocks from school and with an 8.30 start I would be crawling out of bed about 8.25!!! These days I find it easier to work late at night as there are far less chances of interruption.

CT